New owner, few questions/comments

[kidred 0]

I have a 100.2 running Rainbow SLC265 comps and the amp run hot. Is it supposed to? I have gains all the way down, bass boost off and the Rainbows are very loud so I don't play them that loud often and yet the amp is pretty hot to the touch after 10-15 minutes. I was a little bummed to find the crossover only goes down to 75hz

I also have the 1000D pushing my TC-OEM10 at 2ohms and wow, I can barely hear the sub (unless volume jacked up). The OEM really needs power I guess. I have the gains turned all the way up and it delivers what I was hoping for. Is that bad? Right now my comps are just wailing away and my sub can't keep up it's end. I'm just a little surprised that 600w isn't loud enough to balance with 100.2 + Rainbow comps.

I guess I will have to sell the 1000D and upgrade to the 1500D?

Edited July 4, 2007 by Kid Red

[sundownz 197]

The TC-10 OEM is quite a power hungry sub, so yes, more than 600 watts may be required to make it perform like you desire I have four of them around here so I do know a bit about them. The SAZ-1500D @ 2 ohm will push it quite hard but depending on your taste the SAE-1000D may not cut it. Is the sub ported or sealed? It will be especially difficult to get alot of output from that woofer sealed.

The SAX-100.2 will run much warmer than the Class-D amps, yes. It is a Class A/B and they are less efficient, being warm won't hurt the amp unless it is hot enough to shut down from thermal protection (which takes alot). The casing is a heatsink and thus it's job is to get warm and disperse the heat into the air and away from the transistors. I'll put it this way... I've never had a single 100.2 come back to me for a legit failure -- so don't worry about a bit of warmth.

The 75 Hz crossover works quite well for most any 6.5" sized component speaker out there -- I run the Tang-Band 6.5 inch "subs" (used as midbass) in my brothers truck at 75 Hz and they have 12mm of one way x-max available... the 100.2 still gets them moving when he cranks it up. Although, next year the 100.2 will be updated to go down to 50 Hz in cases where that is desirable such as for 8" mibass drivers.

[kidred 0]

The TC-10 OEM is quite a power hungry sub, so yes, more than 600 watts may be required to make it perform like you desire I have four of them around here so I do know a bit about them. The SAZ-1500D @ 2 ohm will push it quite hard but depending on your taste the SAE-1000D may not cut it. Is the sub ported or sealed? It will be especially difficult to get alot of output from that woofer sealed.

The SAX-100.2 will run much warmer than the Class-D amps, yes. It is a Class A/B and they are less efficient, being warm won't hurt the amp unless it is hot enough to shut down from thermal protection (which takes alot). The casing is a heatsink and thus it's job is to get warm and disperse the heat into the air and away from the transistors. I'll put it this way... I've never had a single 100.2 come back to me for a legit failure -- so don't worry about a bit of warmth.

The 75 Hz crossover works quite well for most any 6.5" sized component speaker out there -- I run the Tang-Band 6.5 inch "subs" (used as midbass) in my brothers truck at 75 Hz and they have 12mm of one way x-max available... the 100.2 still gets them moving when he cranks it up. Although, next year the 100.2 will be updated to go down to 50 Hz in cases where that is desirable such as for 8" mibass drivers.

Ah, the 100.2 is A/B? I didn't know that. That explains a lot. It gets my SL265s moving, just would have liked to go 60hz or at least have the tuning ability to play around a little more. My Massive Audio A/B (different car) pushes comps and a sub and doesn't get as hot as the 100.2 so I wanted to make sure it was normal.

Yes, my OEM is sealed and sound excellent at high volumes. It's the output at not ear splitting volumes where it isn't satisfying. I just don't like the size of ported enclosures very much. But if there is a huge difference I might try it (and I have the get the PR)

[sundownz 197]

Ah, the 100.2 is A/B? I didn't know that. That explains a lot. It gets my SL265s moving, just would have liked to go 60hz or at least have the tuning ability to play around a little more. My Massive Audio A/B (different car) pushes comps and a sub and doesn't get as hot as the 100.2 so I wanted to make sure it was normal.

Yes, my OEM is sealed and sound excellent at high volumes. It's the output at not ear splitting volumes where it isn't satisfying. I just don't like the size of ported enclosures very much. But if there is a huge difference I might try it (and I have the get the PR)

The TC-10 OEM needs alot of juice sealed, that is for certain. I have one in an actual ported box -- the port length is extremely long thus making the box fairly large, so a PR is probably the best option for you if size is an issue.

[Audio Junkies 3]

"I have the gains turned all the way up and it delivers what I was hoping for. Is that bad?"

Very.

I'm going to guess that you have some other installation/equipment issues going on if you can barely hear the sub. Have you checked the phase?

A 75Hz highpass should be fine for the components, especially running the TC 10" sealed.

Give us more info on what equipment you are using and the install, and we can probably help you better.

[sundownz 197]

The big problem is that the sub has an F3 of 60 Hz sealed. So by the time he is really getting into "sub" information he is already calling for double the power. IMHO, passive-radiator or ported is the only way to go on that sub if you expect much output at all.

[Audio Junkies 3]

The big problem is that the sub has an F3 of 60 Hz sealed. So by the time he is really getting into "sub" information he is already calling for double the power. IMHO, passive-radiator or ported is the only way to go on that sub if you expect much output at all.

Holy chit, I just modeled it and you are right. Definitely not the sub to run sealed.

To the OP, if you really want to go sealed I'd consider selling the OEM 10 and looking at other options that will work as a drop in for your current box. A dual 2 ohm driver would allow you to use the SAE-1000D to its full potential as well.

[audio-neon 34]

The big problem is that the sub has an F3 of 60 Hz sealed. So by the time he is really getting into "sub" information he is already calling for double the power. IMHO, passive-radiator or ported is the only way to go on that sub if you expect much output at all.

I would be the one to have numbers to confirm this... As I am waiting for my aero-ports still.

2 TC sounds oem 10's, 1 saz1500d. 3.68 cubic feet ported to 42 hz. 49 hz tone= 140.5 legal on the new tl.

2 TC sounds Oem 10's, 1 saz1500d. 2.08 cubic feet sealed @ 49 hz. 130.8 legal on the new tl. (51hz is new peak @ 131.07)

My sealed box is set up as a wall right now. I am waiting very patiently for my aero's so I can tune the box to 45hz

[audio-neon 34]

The big problem is that the sub has an F3 of 60 Hz sealed. So by the time he is really getting into "sub" information he is already calling for double the power. IMHO, passive-radiator or ported is the only way to go on that sub if you expect much output at all.

Holy chit, I just modeled it and you are right. Definitely not the sub to run sealed.

To the OP, if you really want to go sealed I'd consider selling the OEM 10 and looking at other options that will work as a drop in for your current box. A dual 2 ohm driver would allow you to use the SAE-1000D to its full potential as well.

The mach 5 ten is really inexpensive enough just to pick up and compare. (I might pick two up and see how much they like ~4000 watts rms. And see if I get a gain (even though I will be replacing those subs a few times a comp)

[kidred 0]

K, lot of comments, I'll try and get them all.

Audio Junkie- It's not that I can't hear the sub, I'm being dramatic. It's in comparison to the comps, at normal volume, the sub isn't where I would like it.

Equipment-

stock HU (I know, I know, I know)

David Navone LOC

Rainbow SLC 265s + Sundown 100.2

OEM 10 sealed to .8 cft (as Audio Neon provided) + Sundown 1000D

1/0g power

4g ground

As for the OEM, I'm confused because TC (on their boards) had said the sub was meant to run sealed and with the volume (and gain ) cranked, boy does it get into the deep notes. It's a very sweet sub. Damn.

I like sealed because I'm after SQ not SPL. Additionally, I plan to build a custom fiberglass enclosure from my trunk's corner so I don't lose my trunk space to a wall of wood. I did that when I was a kid and it's not what I'm after now.

So it's then either upgrade the amp or the sub? Damn. I spent most of the research narrowing it down to the Fi SSD and the OEM. I never got much feedback on the SSD but people were in love with the OEM (and I can see why) I don't know of many 10" subs that are SQ, need 600w or so and are under $200. Oh, and I'd want a D2 I guess right?

Edited July 6, 2007 by Kid Red

[///M5 2,833]

I like sealed because I'm after SQ not SPL. Additionally, I plan to build a custom fiberglass enclosure from my trunk's corner so I don't lose my trunk space to a wall of wood. I did that when I was a kid and it's not what I'm after now.

That is sort of contrary to your statement in the OP. Perhaps you want to be into SQ, but really want some bass.

One other comment, if your doors aren't deadened significantly you can't play your comps below 75Hz anyway. Even then I am not sure those Rainbows can take anything lower than that at any sort of level.

[///M5 2,833]

One other thing, that OEM 10 while not geared to be loud in a sealed environment should have no issues fulfilling the role as an SQ sub in a setup. In particular with the 1000d on it. IMO you should sell the sub or run it ported.

[JimJ 11]

Even then I am not sure those Rainbows can take anything lower than that at any sort of level.

I've heard SLC's go deeper than that in Ramos' install

[///M5 2,833]

Even then I am not sure those Rainbows can take anything lower than that at any sort of level.

I've heard SLC's go deeper than that in Ramos' install

Yes but Ramos isn't a basshead and there was no mention of deadening in the list of equipment above, so I will repeat the statement that you just quoted me on.

[ANeonRider 3]

The mach 5 ten is really inexpensive enough just to pick up and compare. (I might pick two up and see how much they like ~4000 watts rms. And see if I get a gain (even though I will be replacing those subs a few times a comp)

They would die in seconds. I don't think they'd last long enough to get a burp out of them at that power level.

[kidred 0]

Even then I am not sure those Rainbows can take anything lower than that at any sort of level.

I've heard SLC's go deeper than that in Ramos' install

Yes but Ramos isn't a basshead and there was no mention of deadening in the list of equipment above, so I will repeat the statement that you just quoted me on.

I didn't mention it because it hasn't been done yet. I just got my RAAmmat yesterday but I couldn't wait for it to install my system. So maybe this weekend I can get to some deadening. I was told the SLC265's got into the 50hz range, though I probably wouldn't want them to go that low.

The OEM sounds sweet. I have no complaints there, SQ is excellent. It just seems to want 100w-200w more because I have it sealed and in a trunk I guess. I'm not a basshead per say, but I do like to hear and feel the bass in music recorded as such like hip hop, R&B, etc, but I listen to a wide variety of music genres.

I'm not sure about going ported because I'd need the PR, or at least I'm under the impression the OEM needs the PR to sound the best. So my options are upgrade the amp or the sub.

How would a TC-1000 be with the 1000D? Or are there any other sub suggestions?

[sundownz 197]

If you want sealed the TC-1000 is not a good choice either. If you want to stick with TC and a sealed box try the TC-7.

[kidred 0]

If you want sealed the TC-1000 is not a good choice either. If you want to stick with TC and a sealed box try the TC-7.

You guys are beginning to give me a complex about liking sealed boxes. Is it biased against strictly due to output/efficiency? I've just also heard the rule about sealed for SQ and ported for volume. How do you determine a speaker won't be good sealed and when it should be ported? Just so I can understand myself.

I mean if porting is really that pivotal in increasing output then I should just really consider porting my OEM and the 1000D should be enough with 600w? Or would even porting the OEM not be enough to help out the 1000D. I have tweaked my setup and it's right there about where I want it, but the gain is maybe 90% up. Other than that, I'm happy.

The TC-7 likes large boxes, are there any 600w SQ subs under $200 that fit my needs with a say 1.cft sealed enclosure? Or could I just port my OEM and be able to keep the 1000D?

[kidred 0]

Sorry guys, Mr Sun Down, I'm a dweeb. I had never wired a mono and a multichannel amp together. SO after trying another 10" sub+enclosure I had and being confused by the same low output I knew something else was causing my issue. So, after playing around I found that the output RCAs from the 100.2 SHOULD NOT have both channels wired to the input on the mono 1000D. I pulled out channel 1 and volume to my OEM doubled. So, haha, now I have the SQ and LOW BASS that now matches beautifully with my comps and the gain on the 1000D is maybe half way, I still need to tweak it down some more.

So, I just wanted to admit my idiocy and noobie-ism and report back that 1000D is more than adequate pushing the OEM sealed at 600w

Now I have been introduced to 20 new rattles, haha. I'll have to get some foam stuff too.

[sundownz 197]

Glad you got it figured out.

[kidred 0]

So am I Sounds awesome, exactly what I was hoping for. The 1000D runs hot, but I guess that's expected and I can't wait till I deaden everything and kill all the rattles. Thanks.

[sundownz 197]

So am I Sounds awesome, exactly what I was hoping for. The 1000D runs hot, but I guess that's expected and I can't wait till I deaden everything and kill all the rattles. Thanks.

It is very compact so a little heat is to be expected. I've abuse tested them thoroughly and they do just fine even when they get warmed up

[kidred 0]

Excllent. Just curious, why does the 1000D lack the silver streak in the middle like the other amps? Like a bastard stepchild or something. Can't wait to get them mounted on an amp rack.

[sundownz 197]

Excllent. Just curious, why does the 1000D lack the silver streak in the middle like the other amps? Like a bastard stepchild or something. Can't wait to get them mounted on an amp rack.

Note the model number "SAE" -- it's a different series. These are the "entry level" line and other amps to match them are in the works, specifically an SAE-50.4 and SAE-75.2 model. They will all have matching heatsinks with one another.

[audio-neon 34]

The mach 5 ten is really inexpensive enough just to pick up and compare. (I might pick two up and see how much they like ~4000 watts rms. And see if I get a gain (even though I will be replacing those subs a few times a comp)

They would die in seconds. I don't think they'd last long enough to get a burp out of them at that power level.

Its only 2kw rms per woofer. LOL!

I will probably be looking for new woofers soon as well. I don't have enough power to run the woofers I will be running next season yet. But I don't need to be replacing oems ever weekend.