Input on 8's

[DasBot 0]

Some good examples that I've found are the one from Apex Jr., http://www.apexjr.com/speakerstuff.html

Also if you can find them now, the Audiobahn Ax800 is great as well as the Diamond Audio CM3 8", comes in dual 2ohm and dual 4ohm.

That's for subs.. For a threeway, the Orion 8mb was awesome.

SJ

[DasBot 0]

OH, and try www.tcsounds.com for building your own 8" sub. They build/built the infamous Sunfire True Subwoofer gear so I'm sure they have some solutions for an 8" sub that can move 2.25".

SJ

[DevilDriver 28]

Surprised that I haven't seen this before.

If it's a subwoofer, something similar to the RE8 is a great idea. Was there anything special about them? Not at all, but they were extremely affordable. An 8" driver with a decent motor on it is almost always going to be very efficient and require a small enclosure. To me, put something together that you will sell for less than US$50 w/ a 2" diameter vc that can take around 200 watts. Get enough BL to drop Qts/Qes below 0.3, and you've got a winner.

For a midbass, it's a bit of a different story. To me, an 8" midbass in a car must must must be able to play up to at least 400 Hz and down to at least 60 Hz; that allows me to use a 3" midrange with wide bandwidth and a very small tweeter with a very high frequency highpass filter. How is this achieved? It's mostly a balance to be found in coil length; it takes Xmax to get sufficient SPL at 60 Hz that will make your transition to sub-stage smooth. Thankfully, an 8" driver does not need excessive Xmax to be able to do this in most instance (Xmax on order of 8-10mm is certainly adequate). It's very critical that the coil is long enough compared to the top plate to achieve the linear excursion you are looking for, but also equally important that it is short enough that inductance (and inductance variation) does not become much of an issue until the second or third harmonic above the fundamental frequency that you wish to begin your lowpass filter at. Adding a shorting ring would really be something, maybe a full sleeve of copper... I think you have to look at the market looking for 8" midbass in a 3 way design: they are SQ oriented. I don't feel that making an "average" driver would be worth it here.

Long and short: making an inexpensive 8" driver with minimal work can give you some very appreciable returns. If doing an 8" midbass, I think you have to do it right to really make it worthwhile.

Just one guy on a soapbox.

[CanHonkey 0]

Well I feel the thing of the 8" sub is that is allows some people with little to near zero space to work with, to have a solid substage. What I was mentioning to Mike was that there is not much on the market in a good preforming mid priced 8". The SS RL-i8 is a very capable 8" sub, but it is out of reach $$$wise for many people or more than they want to spend.

(x2) Would love to see a more affordable Canadian made version of the RL-i8 . In fact, a freind of mine and I are in the market for 1 each, and are considering to eventually acquire them. Though if Mach 5 came out with an 8, would defintely consider that. Size is key, as I want to avoid limiting trunk space.. So a sealed ~.3 cu ft enclosure would prefered! Keep up the great work and hope these Mach5 Audio 8" drivers materialize

Edited April 10, 2007 by CanHonkey

[req 0]

i want a replacement for the IDQ8.

make it play from 50hz to 1.5~2khz.

make it about 3" deep if possible

make it available in 2ohm SVC

lets see the sensitivity stay above 88ish db, as high as possible

make it suitible for IB off axis doors

thats what i want out of a new driver. if all the requirements cant be met, then oh well. but another 8" sub can be made quite easily for a few bucks, i know theres a market hole for a good midbass 8" 2ohm speaker for car audio - theres tons of 8ohm high efficency\frequency range midbass' out there, but it does not help when all we have for them is like 30w and they are like 5" deep.

lets see what you can do.

i will definatly buy a pair.

[audio-neon 34]

i want a replacement for the IDQ8.

make it play from 50hz to 1.5~2khz.

make it about 3" deep if possible

make it available in 2ohm SVC

lets see the sensitivity stay above 88ish db, as high as possible

make it suitible for IB off axis doors

thats what i want out of a new driver. if all the requirements cant be met, then oh well. but another 8" sub can be made quite easily for a few bucks, i know theres a market hole for a good midbass 8" 2ohm speaker for car audio - theres tons of 8ohm high efficency\frequency range midbass' out there, but it does not help when all we have for them is like 30w and they are like 5" deep.

lets see what you can do.

i will definatly buy a pair.

You my friend are looking for the mid-bass from the Hertz, space k8l component set. The only downfall is its in 4 ohm, but it can take 200 watts.

[Ga foo 88 0]

i want a replacement for the IDQ8.

make it play from 50hz to 1.5~2khz.

make it about 3" deep if possible

make it available in 2ohm SVC

lets see the sensitivity stay above 88ish db, as high as possible

make it suitible for IB off axis doors

thats what i want out of a new driver. if all the requirements cant be met, then oh well. but another 8" sub can be made quite easily for a few bucks, i know theres a market hole for a good midbass 8" 2ohm speaker for car audio - theres tons of 8ohm high efficency\frequency range midbass' out there, but it does not help when all we have for them is like 30w and they are like 5" deep.

lets see what you can do.

i will definatly buy a pair.

You my friend are looking for the mid-bass from the Hertz, space k8l component set. The only downfall is its in 4 ohm, but it can take 200 watts.

who sells those in the US?

[Viperoni 0]

How about 4ohm DVC for those of us who could use it to maximize the output of our 2ch amps?

Also, for door usage practicality, keep the depth as close to 2.5" as possible (but you'll probably need to go with 3" or more for reasonable excursion), and please keep the Qts high....

With a good enough Vas, Qts in the 0.6 range, Fs in the 45-55hz range, and even 5mm Xmax, it could be a nice IB midbass.

[vladd 26]

even an fs in the 45-55hz range and playable to 50hz seems a bit high for me, seems like something a good 6.5 or 7 can do, so why bother with a 8?

[Viperoni 0]

More surface area so it can do it louder. Plus it'd be able to handle the 80hz stuff easier as well (well we'd hope heh).

[DevilDriver 28]

even an fs in the 45-55hz range and playable to 50hz seems a bit high for me, seems like something a good 6.5 or 7 can do, so why bother with a 8?

I don't know any 6.5" or 7" drivers that can cross over to an adequate substage at 50 Hz with a reasonable top end. The closest I have come across are the Poly's and Extremis, but only in a MTM in the house where I have one or two subs. My suggestions were based off of what would make for a driver capable of performing extremely well, audibly and in competition.

[vladd 26]

If i was going to run an 8 in my frontstage it better be nearly flat to 50hz(in car response), i've heard of many people running the seas excel, peerless (xls or sls, can't remember which) and like 7" drivers down to 50 with success (in cars). And i've seen the crazy extremii running to 20hz in MT setups(extreme MT to be exact), hell even the modula MT with the RS180 has an in room response that showed flat out to 30hz. Also i know that expecting performance like that in a car is bit unrealistic since most cars aren't nearly as forgiving for large enclosures.

Granted these are either extremely nice drivers and/or extremely nice enclosures but fitting an 8 in a car is a lot harder than fitting a 7" in most cases so i feel without a huge improvement, i'd rather spend $200 on 7" drivers and not have to deal with cutting my doors or losing even more leg room in my kicks.

ok i'm through being a pessimist

[DevilDriver 28]

My point was simply that it is very challenging to take a 6" - 8" driver with low inductance and high output down to 50 Hz that allows for a very smooth transition to 4 IDMAX 12's, which is a relatively common style of substage in sq competitions because you need to have the linear displacement to authentically play notes in the 20-25 Hz range with a smooth transition to your midbass.

Perhaps simply a difference in opinions on what is required for success, which is perfectly acceptable.

Cheers!

[vladd 26]

I agree 50hz is leaps and bounds more challenging than the normal 63 or (gag) 80hz crossover points. And with an 8 i think it'll be hard as hell to get one playing both low and high enough.

I'm sure everyone will disagree on what the driver should do, if mark makes one 8" driver that meets everyone's expectations in every way he'll be the envy of every audio company on earth.

[mrogowski 6]

Actually, it has been done years ago - when consumers began to get tired of big boxes with big woofers in their livingrooms. Companies began to downsize their products; producing speakers with smaller woofers that fit in small enclosures which could dig deep.

The first real breakthrough believe it or not, was the Energy 22. In 1981 it set the record for deep 'subwoofer-like' bass from a modest 7" woofer in a bookshelf sized enclosure. Nothing could beat it at the time. Magazine reviewers and store owners were comparing them to products 3 times their size and up to 8 times their price.

The 22 woofer was good to over 2kHz and produced very good midrange. Yet it could dig so deep you would think you were listening to a sub.

So, all a person has to do is go backwards in time to recoup that 'lost science' that seems to be missing today..

Best,

Mark

[vladd 26]

is the 22 woofer patented in any way ?

[mrogowski 6]

Nope. And I know everything there is to know about it too, 'cause I used to work for them.

[vladd 26]

hells yes, what are you waiting on then?

[topgun 262]

hells yes, what are you waiting on then?

Agreed!

[BiNarY 0]

hells yes, what are you waiting on then?

Agreed!

i totally agree to this motion as well. 22 woofer! come on, show us some raw SPL. lol.

[Here-I-Come 0]

I'm thinking in the lines of one of the all time great sub/midbass drivers, The JL Audio 8IB4. This is one of the best 8" drivers made. It is a great mibass that will play up the 600-700hz with easy and even higher if need, but put 3 or more in the rear deck and be prepared for some great sounding subwoofer sound. I you can built a driver like this and at a great price I say you would have a winner on your hands.

[JimJ 11]

Actually, it has been done years ago - when consumers began to get tired of big boxes with big woofers in their livingrooms.

Wusses.

So, all a person has to do is go backwards in time to recoup that 'lost science' that seems to be missing today..

Totally agree

[JimJ 11]

As for what I'd want...how about something like a Visaton B200 with better performance? Phase plugged, maybe a little more linear travel, cheaper...blah blah

[Ga foo 88 0]

Any updates on these 8s?

[mrogowski 6]

As for what I'd want...how about something like a Visaton B200 with better performance? Phase plugged, maybe a little more linear travel, cheaper...blah blah

Yeah, Ok Jim, I'll get right on it. Will next week be ok?