Amp/Head Unit wiring/Add mids in front Dash Q?s

[musgrove 0]

I'm nearing the finish line in an installation that includes a new HU with FT/RT, FR/LT RR/RT RR/LT, and a SUB output, plus an unmarked, unidentified in the manual, RCA output on the back of the HU next to the SUB output.

I have a 5 channel amp that has Channels 1(white), 2(red), 3(white) and 4(red) marked clearly on the amp, plus a SUB RT(white) and SUB LFT(red) input, all input by RCA.
The same amp has 4 sets of output terminals, 1 each for + & -. It also has 2 terminals for the sub (+ & -), which connects to the sub on R &L posts.

So, first question:
How do I run a cable from the HU, which is 1 RCA connection, to the AMP, which has both LT and RT RCA input connections?

Second question:
I also have the White, Grey, Green, Violet (+&-'s) hooked up from the HU to the wiring harness that goes to the speakers. The reason for this was that I have six speakers placements: 2 6.5" in the front doors, 2 6.5" in the rear doors. In the dash, I removed the tweeters that were in a plate and replaced them with Infinity Kappa20's midrange speakers that have bandpass crossovers that handle 550hz-7Mhz hooked up.

Just to confuse things more, The manual for the amp shows The channel 1 speaker attached to the channel 2 output terminals(+&-) and the channel 2 speaker (+&-) attached to the channel 1 terminals. Channels 3 and 4 are where I expect them, 3 & 4. And then again for the SUB it has + and - terminals to go to + & - posts on the SUB.

I've routed every plug in every location and checked each speaker, one by one by changing the fader/balance in different combinations to determine what's going on.

What I sense I'm doing wrong is that I'm wiring RCA cables with both RT/LT wires into the AMP to the HU when both only want a single signal cable each going into each jack. One single wire each that somehow is carrying both the Positive and Negative in it, versus a double speaker wire that goes into a positive/negative RCA male connector.

So that leaves the sub with one single output HU going to the AMP which has a R(white) and L(red) female connector. And then the 5th channel +&- going to the +&- on the SUB input.

The reason I have the HU output speaker wires (white,grey,green,violet) going to the speakers is because of the Dash Unit speakers. They're tapped into those 4 in the wiring harness where I can't get to them, but run from the HU from 4 wires to 6 different speakers). Again, the dash speakers are 2" Infinity midranges with bandpass crossovers connected to each which came with them. I just noticed they are 2.5 ohm, and everything else is 4 ohm, which is worrisome.

Is there a wiring genius out there that can understand what's going on and tell what I have wrong? There's also a whine coming from the front right dash speaker and possibly the right(passenger side) door speakers. I have the power cable far from the speaker wires on either sides of the vehicle. But I'm sure it has with the larger wiring issue at hand.

Any and all help is greatly appreciated. This is a crazy puzzle. Here's a diagram I made to make it more visual:

Edited May 14, 2021 by musgrove

[musgrove 0]

I didn't see an "Edit" button anywhere on the screen around my original post to add this, so here are the details:

2001 GMC Jimmy 4x4

HU: Sony MEX-N5300BT
AMP: Planet Audio 5 channel AC1800.5
Door speakers: Alpine SPE- 6000
Dash Speakers: Infinity KAPPA20
Subwoofer: Alpine SWT-12S4

[Tirefryr 1,742]

So, the sub RCA outputs from the head unit are indeed stereo.  The one you have labeled as "unidentified" above should be the white RCA and obviously the red is the red.  That's how it's shown in the manual, in Sony photos, and I have two Sony headunits that are setup the same way. 

 

I don't quite understand what you're asking in regards to the speakers.  You state they are hooked up to the headunit, but you have a 5 channel amp, so why are you not powering them with the amplifier versus the headunit?

 

GO with the terminal labeling on the amp itself.  Manuals are often screwed up, especially with budget brands.   Even if it's wrong, all you have to do is swap the 4 speaker wires, or two RCA plugs.

[musgrove 0]

Yes, you are correct with your first statement. The "red" is the sub output on the HU, which is marked as such, and the other is white and unnamed both on the unit itself and the Sony manual. 

The reason for the workaround with the amp is because when I was ordering all the parts and equipment I'd need, one of the things I had done was have Crutchfield link the harness up for me professionally. 

Everything arrived, and new wiring was done via RCA from the HU to send 5 channel signals to the amp.

What I also did, and this might be the source of the problem but I saw people doing it online and it seemed like the most reasonable solution, was to wire the white/grey/purple/green wires coming from the HU back into the corresponding speaker wires coming from the dash. And I jump-spliced the remote wire, but that's of secondary concern and seems to work properly. 

Then I also have the output for 5 channels running from the Amp to the HU harness, where I connected them to the white/grey/purple/green via speedwire. That relieved me from having to rewire each door and dash speaker individually throughout the vehicle. As well as addressing how I tapped into the speaker wires that are responsible for the 2" mid-range dash speakers. 

One thing I guess I'm also confused about is the redundancy of using 5 RCA cables to send out a signal from the HU, PLUS wires that are going into the harness/adapter/white,grey,purple,green. I feel certain this is the locus of the issue, but I'm not sure how to go about it otherwise. I'm sure I'm overlooking something obvious....

 

Why is Planet Audio considered a "budget brand?" It wasn't exactly cheap, and PA is owned by BOSS. And the reviews are all 5 star.

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by musgrove

[Tirefryr 1,742]

The Sony manual on their website shows both red and white RCAs used for the sub output.  As with 99% of amplifiers on the market, the two stereo signals and then internally summed in the amplifier to output a mono signal. 

I'm still lost on your harness issues though.  If you're powering the speakers via the Planet Audio amplifier, then the speaker wire from the amp gets hooked into the speakers.  If you previously had them powered by the internal amp of the headunit, you need to disconnect them from the headunit and then you can hook the wires from the amp back into the wires that terminate at the speakers.  The headunit is simply using the RCA cables to send a signal to the amp, then the amp outputs that signal directly into the speakers, so you no longer need the speaker wires coming from the headunit hooked up to anything. 

Wait, wait, wait. . .   I see the amp has high level inputs as well.  IS this what you are talking about?  You are using the RCA outputs from the headunit into the amp AND the high level plugs on the amp as well?  If that is the case, simply unplug the high level inputs.  Those are for headunits that do not have RCA outputs.

As for the midranges in the dash, since you already have a passive crossover network on them, simply hook them into the front channels of the amp along with the door speakers in parallel.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

As for Planet Audio, they are a "budget" company and being owned by Boss just makes that even worse.   No way around it.  Searching the net, I can find that amplifier for anywhere from $150-$180.  This is super cheap, especially for a 5 channel amp.  I am not knocking it, just stating facts.  I have used several cheap 5 channel amps from China and they all have had discrepancies in the manual.  It's just the norm with this stuff.

[musgrove 0]

On 5/15/2021 at 10:36 AM, Tirefryr said:

2 hours ago, Tirefryr said:

 

I'm not using high-level anything. I realize the speaker outputs from the amp would normally route to the speakers, however, that would require brand new wiring under the carpet, through all doors, and to the speakers, including up and through the dash to the dash speaker placements. That's a big job.

So instead I utilized a speedwire to run the speaker outputs back to the head unit harness and into the speaker output wires there - white, grey, green violet. That also allows the existing wiring to deliver output to the dash speakers.   

Regarding the quality of Planet Audio's gear, I see more evidence to support that they are of good quality and value over you saying they aren't. And having BOSS operating that arm means they have a larger brand reputation to maintain as well, which is a brand recommended by many knowledgeable people and companies, including Crutchfield. They're engineered in California and built in China, just like Apple products and a million other high-quality products Americans use daily. The manual right have an error in it but an error in the manual doesn't equal that the product itself is junk. Those are two different issues. If you can cite Planet Audio being a disreputable company that sells inferior equipment, I'd like to see it because I found none while researching amps. I found more to the contrary, which is why I bought it. I could have spent more money, but I saw no other products that would have provided the same features I wanted without a bunch of stuff I didn't need or want. Just because an audio device has a million features doesn't mean it's higher quality. That means it has a million more things that can go wrong and a lot of features I have no need or use for in my installation.

[musgrove 0]

And you're getting close to the way things are wired, except the speaker output from the amp isn't being wired back into the amp via the harness. That makes no sense and would cause big problems. What I did was take the speaker outputs from the amp and run them back into the harness coming FROM the HU along with all the other wires, so that they are hooked up via speedwire to the accompanying white/grey/green/violet wires going back to the speakers and dash speakers which at some point are being diverted in the original wiring harness from the 4 wires, to send a signal to 6 speakers. That was to avoid rewiring ALL 6 speakers at once. Hopefully, that makes it a bit clearer. So now I have no signal coming from the front driver's dash speaker or the driver's side rear speaker. And I have an extra RCA cable leading from the HU to the amp, because the 2 RCA cables that come from RT/Ft and LT/FT, which came with the amp installation kit as a single cable with Y terminals, are going into the AMP as Channel 1 and channel 2. Channel 3 and 5 on the amp have 2 RCA terminals with +&_ going into them from the HU RT/RR and LT/RR outputs. The single sub output from the HU is traveling to the AMP via 1 + and _ each with an RCA terminal being plugged into a Y RCA adapter going into the AMP's red and white RCA female inputs. 2 of them.  

[Tirefryr 1,742]

I'm not going to argue over the validity of Planet Audio's reputation.  If it's acceptable to you, that's all the matters.   You shouldn't have any extra RCA cables or any need for Y-adapters anywhere.  As I've stated, the sub outputs are stereo outputs, not monaural, and not a single output.  See the manual from Sony below for verification. 

 

[musgrove 0]

OK, this is starting to make some sense. Thank you so much for your patience.

If you compare the back of the HU to this diagram, what is different is that the outputs for the Front and Rear audio are marked on the actual  HU "Front" "Rear" "left" and "right." However, the bottom left output on the HU that has an arrow to it as "Sub" is just marked "Sub" on the HU. There's no right or left indication or anything describing what it's for. So it seems the remaining output is for a  sub wire that should have a y terminal connected for right and left, going to the Amp, which has an input for the terminal right and left. Instead what I have is a speaker cable with r/l wires coming from the 1 SUB-labeled output on the HU to the AMP using a Y adapter to split it into R and L female inputs on the AMP. What I think I need to do is yank that wire and replace it with a cable that has two male RCA plugs, going from the bottom two outputs on the HU to the R and L female inputs on the AMP. Which will make things for the sub the way they need to be. And explains why I have a leftover RCA.

So back to the 4 channels coming from the HU. They are being sent from the HU by the "Front Audio" left and right female outputs to the amp with a cable that ends in the same and is connected to Channel 1 and channel 2. That leaves the middle 2 outlets on the rear of the HU for the "Rear audio" out being sent via 2 RCA plugs in each output to the AMP which are fed into channel 3 and 4 with 2 RCA males for Right and Left.   

I'm now thinking my choice of wiring is what's the problem. I should be using Y wires - one for the R/L front, one for R/L back and one for the R/L Sub. NOT using positive/negative wires fed into RCA terminals going from the Rear Audio on the HU to the channel 3 and 4 RCA inputs on the amp. 

Edited May 17, 2021 by musgrove