New 10 inch Woofer Decision

[LA Boy 0]

Hi everyone! This is my first post on the forum as I found myself liking the way SSA forum is handled versus other car audio forums out there and I'm looking for advice from people who really know their stuff! My build is very budget oriented as I am 18 and in college but that's not to say i do not take my bass seriously. I have an APMI 2K with 1/0 KnuKonceptz Bassik wire ran for power and no big 3, all powering 2 10s under my back seat in my 2012 F150 which has already been sound deadened slightly and the back cabin vents sealed. Now to the meat and potatoes of my post. I am looking for some new drivers. My airspace is limited to 2.05cf before displacement shared by both 10s and box tuning should be at 36hz. My depth constraints are 6.25 inches of mounting depth with a 6.5 inch magnet. My box is a prebuilted ported Fox Acoustics brand box as custom is out of my budget. I have looked at MANY MANY different brands with no definite answer yet on what my next woofers will be. I have considered the DS18 Elite Z10s, Sundown E V3 10s, DD 600 series, Dark Audio NKOs, Skar SDRs and others. I don't want to turn this into a versus thread (even if it almost is one) but I am really just looking for recommendations on different brands and models of woofers around preferably 150$ a pop. I have attempted to use WinISD to model different woofers in my box but I do not hold it to be the utmost truth of all things. My goal is to get loud musically as I never have before metered but would like to eventually. I'm heavily eyeing the Sundowns at the moment because of them being on sale. Could I safely run the E10 D4s wired to 1 ohm on my amplifier and box? Any questions or comments are appreciated and I will be happy to reply as quickly as possible!

[///M5 2,833]

What 10's do you have now and what don't you like about them?

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

[LA Boy 0]

7 hours ago, ///M5 said:

What 10's do you have now and what don't you like about them?

My current woofers are Skar VD 10s with my amp gain matched for them with a multimeter. I have had them forever, been through 2 different boxes and 2 different amps, so about 2 years I believe. I like them but I know I could be louder and sound a lot cleaner which is my goal.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Even though I despise the skarbage, you're not going to gain much, if anything, by simply switching drivers.  Your power is staying the same, enclosure the same; the only way you're going to gain anything is with efficiency, and in this application it will be negligible.  I can say, that I agree with a change from a psychosis standpoint. If it's new it will be better by default.  At least with our feeble brains. 

 

I have no experience with any of the drivers you have listed either, but just by name alone, I would only pick Sundown or DD.  I don't care for skar, and the others I've never heard of,  DOesn't mean they are not quality drivers, but everyone and their mom is calling China and making subs nowadays.

[LA Boy 0]

30 minutes ago, Tirefryr said:

Even though I despise the skarbage, you're not going to gain much, if anything, by simply switching drivers.  Your power is staying the same, enclosure the same; the only way you're going to gain anything is with efficiency, and in this application it will be negligible.  I can say, that I agree with a change from a psychosis standpoint. If it's new it will be better by default.  At least with our feeble brains. 

 

I have no experience with any of the drivers you have listed either, but just by name alone, I would only pick Sundown or DD.  I don't care for skar, and the others I've never heard of,  DOesn't mean they are not quality drivers, but everyone and their mom is calling China and making subs nowadays.

I appreciate the input! and that is why I'm here asking questions. I know most of the sound is in the box but a custom box and seat lift together is over 500$ if i remember correctly and I don't have that sort of throw around money. This is the second box I have owned for this application and right now I'm just trying to get as much out of it as possible until i graduate and start making enough money to throw at this. As i said, I've got my gain set to be bout 1400-1500w rms instead of the correct 2k rms, i would like to get all of the power from my overall system even if the gain is small, a gain is a gain. From using WinISD after watching a video on how to do it, and the DS18 brand woofers on 2k rms had an insane 8 db gain across the curve. Red is the DS18 and green is current. Ive helped a friend install some lower model DS18s in his ride and they were super responsive and loud for only 1200w rms on 2 10s.  And I see people bash Skar all the time but i personally have not had any sort of problem with their woofers besides resale value is crap. 

[LA Boy 0]

Here i added the Sundown EV3s in blue

[Tirefryr 1,742]

LOL!  That is NOT possible.  The computer models are good for small signal response, but it doesn't equate to real world power levels.   You can try different drivers, but I guarantee you won't be pleased for the time and money spent versus the small gains, again, if any.  

I get what you're trying to do, but you're better off just dealing with what you have and saving the money you would spend on new drivers.  You can compound this over time and get a proper enclosure and drivers and the seat lift if you prefer.   It will cost you less to do it all at once.

[LA Boy 0]

I figured as such which is why I never trusted using it to begin with. Either way, I've got some cash at the moment so I figured I would spend it.

[///M5 2,833]

Would you still spend it if there is no audible gain?

[LA Boy 0]

Honestly I wouldn't. And probably won't. 

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Could always invest it or sell the SKAR's and upgrade to made in the USA, SSA Hellions.

 

Shameless plug.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

On 2/5/2019 at 9:46 AM, Aaron Clinton said:

Could always invest it or sell the SKAR's and upgrade to made in the USA, SSA Hellions.

 

Shameless plug.

What he said. ^^ Beefier subs on double the power will have an audible difference.

[LA Boy 0]

Only problem with upgrading to the Hellions, which i would love to do, would be worrying about the box being too small and their price tag. How about the demons coming out soon? More appropriate box size and cheaper. When will the Demons be out? I love the look of their motor. And will there be options/modifications that i could chose from like on the Hellion? And what about M5 talking about how just a driver upgrade would improve little to nothing? Wouldn't the over $400 plus shipping be as useless as a paperweight? 

[Randal Johnson 544]

We borrowed a pair of Skar 10s from a friend to go into my son’s Cruze Hatch until his drivers came in. I’m not sure what model they are, but honestly, I can’t complain about them. Nothing I would run in my Sound Quality oriented Avalanche, but for a 21 year old wanting girlfriend impressing bass, those drivers seem to kick ass. Just Saying 

could be they are in a very well designed and built tuned enclosure ??? Don’t know. We will be able to compare the differences when the Brutal Sounds drivers get here. 

Happy driver hunting !!!

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Hellions are on sale, Demons are in customs right now.  No options on the Demons.  Yes, Sean (///M5) is correct, just swapping out subs will be minimal changes.  Upping power, upgrading subs, changing box, all will improve performance.

[///M5 2,833]

I asked the question on purpose.  There will be a difference, there will be an improvement, but the question is are those two items in line with your wants.  I have nothing nice to say about Skar.  The owner is a cheating asshat and quite frankly I would lose money to replace anything that has his company name on it.  That being said, you asked for an output increase. and being "cleaner".  The first step there is normally a box.  Better drivers won't hurt, but the gains may not match your hope based on the price.

Personally I'd list your drivers for sale and if they go upgrade, I just didn't want you to think that there would be some magic when you upgrade them.

[arctictwist 19]

I scanned through, didn't see the answer. What do you drive? A seat lift can be done relatively cheap and you can make your own box. If you look at my old build thread for my crew cab Silverado, I got some heavy ass C channel to lift the seats, built my own box and fit an Icon 10 in there ported. It hit HARD

[LA Boy 0]

On 2/6/2019 at 9:47 AM, Randal Johnson said:

We borrowed a pair of Skar 10s from a friend to go into my son’s Cruze Hatch until his drivers came in. I’m not sure what model they are, but honestly, I can’t complain about them. Nothing I would run in my Sound Quality oriented Avalanche, but for a 21 year old wanting girlfriend impressing bass, those drivers seem to kick ass. Just Saying 

could be they are in a very well designed and built tuned enclosure ??? Don’t know. We will be able to compare the differences when the Brutal Sounds drivers get here. 

Happy driver hunting !!!

I actually bought a pair of minibrute 10s and just didn't like them really. I think I had a coil wired wrong which I found out when I took them out of the box to sell them. But even then idk about them. Let me know how you like em.

On 2/6/2019 at 12:32 PM, arctictwist said:

I scanned through, didn't see the answer. What do you drive? A seat lift can be done relatively cheap and you can make your own box. If you look at my old build thread for my crew cab Silverado, I got some heavy ass C channel to lift the seats, built my own box and fit an Icon 10 in there ported. It hit HARD

A 2012 F150. It looks like it would be a huge pain to calculate the airspace for an under seat box. That and figuring out mounting depth. And I might have to look into that for a lift.

 

Edited February 7, 2019 by LA Boy

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

One thing you could try that would cost little to no money to get louder is adjust the port tuning higher. To between 40-45hz. That was the norm back in the day with prefabs and before internet. As a shop could sell a sub easier in one as it was audibly louder. It's only bc of the web that the average person would know any different, otherwise ignorance would still be bliss. Try it, you may be surprised what you hear. 

[arctictwist 19]

13 hours ago, LA Boy said:

I actually bought a pair of minibrute 10s and just didn't like them really. I think I had a coil wired wrong which I found out when I took them out of the box to sell them. But even then idk about them. Let me know how you like em.

A 2012 F150. It looks like it would be a huge pain to calculate the airspace for an under seat box. That and figuring out mounting depth. And I might have to look into that for a lift.

 

So what I did, since with the one ten I knew there would be plenty, I planned on a storage box on one end. When I was ready to put the wall in for that I had measured out packing peanuts and used them to decide where the sub part of the box ended.