Reason to get 2 vs 4 ohm subwoofer, same exact except ohm?

[Florida_Audio 55]

Ok maybe not going for the rockford fosgate T1. quite expensive, but also idk... maybe not the best thing to get for the price?

Looking at Hellion 12, but higher rms than i think i would ever be able to provide. So also looking at these subwoofers.... but when looking at their specifications the numbers are confusing for abbreviations and such. Just looking for a loud, yet decent sounding subwoofer.

I guess I prefer a 2 ohm subwoofer because it requires a lower wattage amp most often.

Sundown Audio SA-12 750 W SA Series 2 ohm for $179.00

Tezla Audio 1.0k Series 12" 750w Sub 2 ohm for $279.99

Crystal Audio Solutions 12" 750w CS12 Sub for $253.99     This one has several confusing upgrades? But looks aesthetically pleasing lol

 

[Tirefryr 1,742]

The impedance of the sub has nothing to do with power requirements, nor does the RMS for that matter.

That being said, of those three, I would go with the Sundown.  It's cheaper, it's proven, and it's proven.  I've never heard of the other two, and personally, I'd hesitate to give anyone $300 of my money for an unproven product.

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, Tirefryr said:

The impedance of the sub has nothing to do with power requirements, nor does the RMS for that matter.

That being said, of those three, I would go with the Sundown.  It's cheaper, it's proven, and it's proven.  I've never heard of the other two, and personally, I'd hesitate to give anyone $300 of my money for an unproven product.

Ok thanks. Between the sundown and the hellion, which would you suggest? I am thinking the hellion. But afraid to have too powerful amp that messes with my electrical system. But also to help avoid sending a clipped signal to subwoofer, I will get a decent amplifier that can power the sub at its rated rms, but just not use it to send full potential rms? Sound good?

But I guess I could still send clipped signal even the amp is rated at similar RMS as sub? If the gain isnt set properly could still clip?

So confusing!

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Yes, but you're overthinking it.  Use your ear to set the gain.  The driver will tell you when you're at the limit. 

I've not yet had any experience with the Hellion, but the other SSA subs I have and they have all been great.  I have no reason to believe the Hellion will be any different. 

[Florida_Audio 55]

44 minutes ago, Tirefryr said:

Yes, but you're overthinking it.  Use your ear to set the gain.  The driver will tell you when you're at the limit. 

I've not yet had any experience with the Hellion, but the other SSA subs I have and they have all been great.  I have no reason to believe the Hellion will be any different. 

Thanks. Considering premade boxes now. Seen 2 ported ones on this sites store, but the khaotik is a bit expensive so not sure. I do like how the khaotik looks though

Bit hesitant on the boombox. But seems like a good box?

Edited December 11, 2018 by Florida_Audio

[Florida_Audio 55]

I am trying to find out if the Synergy Audi EFA 1k amp can take 0 guage wire? To see if I should order 4 guage, or 0 for amp. Prefer to use 0 guage just in case.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

On 12/7/2018 at 8:08 PM, Florida_Audio said:

Thanks. I spoke with Aaron about difference between Icon and Helion. I think he said Icon was warmer and i forgot what word he used to describe helion. I guess then my question is what words can be used to describe the "quality" of a subwoofer? I have not really listened to much else other than the rockford fosgate p1. I do know my factory 8 in subwoofer is horrible. almost gives me a headache, cant really describe how it sounds other than just bad.

still crazy busy, but want to measure tomorrow I hope. Between work and applications for Doctorate programs been busy

Sean is correct, loads of brands throw the word "quality" around all the time, and the mass majority of the market doesn't take the time to really see if it's true.

In this case, quality of the subwoofer is about the performance, the fit and finish, the end sound, does it do as described, and the people behind it (i.e. warranty/CS).  As for as sound, the Icon is, and has always leaned a little on the warmer side (thicker or more dense) of sound characteristics, due to the large copper coil and heavier cone body.  The Hellion is a little more neutral/drier of a sound than the Icon by a little.  That is just something you will pick up over time and countless different subs in different installs on different music.

[Florida_Audio 55]

50 minutes ago, Aaron Clinton said:

Sean is correct, loads of brands throw the word "quality" around all the time, and the mass majority of the market doesn't take the time to really see if it's true.

In this case, quality of the subwoofer is about the performance, the fit and finish, the end sound, does it do as described, and the people behind it (i.e. warranty/CS).  As for as sound, the Icon is, and has always leaned a little on the warmer side (thicker or more dense) of sound characteristics, due to the large copper coil and heavier cone body.  The Hellion is a little more neutral/drier of a sound than the Icon by a little.  That is just something you will pick up over time and countless different subs in different installs on different music.

Thanks. I would like to order today hopefully. Just trying to finalize my plans.

The Synergy EFA 1k can handle 0 guage wire for amp kit?

The hellion 12, dual 2 ohm can be wired in parallel to be 1 ohm at the amp? So then I can use synergy efa 1k to do up to 1k rms at 1 ohm?

 

Looking to get hellion 12" sub, Synergy Audio EFA 1k amplifier, and BoomTown BT112 Single 12" Speaker box.

Is there a perhaps a combo discount for, subwoofer, subwoofer box, and amplifer? :]  Thanks again Aaron!

Edited December 11, 2018 by Florida_Audio

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

31 minutes ago, Florida_Audio said:

Thanks. I would like to order today hopefully. Just trying to finalize my plans.

The Synergy EFA 1k can handle 0 guage wire for amp kit?

The hellion 12, dual 2 ohm can be wired in parallel to be 1 ohm at the amp? So then I can use synergy efa 1k to do up to 1k rms at 1 ohm?

Is there a perhaps a combo discount for, subwoofer, subwoofer box, and amplifer? :]  Thanks again Aaron!

The EFA 1k uses 4 gauge.  Yes, D2 subs can we wired in parallel to 1 ohm mono.  Yes, we can certainly do a combo discount.

[Florida_Audio 55]

23 minutes ago, Aaron Clinton said:

The EFA 1k uses 4 gauge.  Yes, D2 subs can we wired in parallel to 1 ohm mono.  Yes, we can certainly do a combo discount.

Cools thanks. Should I email you about the order? I am ready to order :]

I asked on support chat phone. Told me to use 0 to 4 guage reducers then. Need 2 of them, 1 for power, and 1 for ground. And should still provide some benefit over just 4 guage amp wiring kit.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

54 minutes ago, Florida_Audio said:

Cools thanks. Should I email you about the order? I am ready to order :]

I asked on support chat phone. Told me to use 0 to 4 guage reducers then. Need 2 of them, 1 for power, and 1 for ground. And should still provide some benefit over just 4 guage amp wiring kit.

Email is good.

[Florida_Audio 55]

Met with boomer, dude who makes the boomtown boxes. Nice dude, was really willing to talk about his box and car audio in general. I just had gotten out of almost 9 hour shift and needed to eat and take my girlfriend out, so didnt get too much time to talk with him. Cool how got special delivery cause hes nearby. Box looks great. I'll post pictures once I got the subwoofer in there with the matching colors!

[Florida_Audio 55]

Edit: also curious... is a cigarette lighter voltmeter accurate or useful at all?

Should I start new thread, or just ask here....?

So one concern brought up is that with the LC2i it can stay powered on for longer than needed and potentially drain battery? How would be best to avoid this, assuming I still want to use the LC2i and not a passive LOC?

I read this elsewhere, seems legit advice? :

With direct power from the battery to the remote in, the LC2i is always on, and if your amp turn on lead is on the remote out of the LC2i as it should be, then your amp and LC2i never turn off. Power to the remote in on the LC2i negates the auto sense turn on feature of the LC2i.

Your power and ground wire direct to the battery are fine. All power wires from the battery should be fused.

You need to disconnect the remote in wire on the LC2i, and remove it from your vehicle if you want to take advantage of the auto on feature. If this feature does not work, then you need to locate a switched 12V power source and a wire from it to your remote in on the LC2i.

A wire from the remote out of the LC2i to your amplifiers remote in should be connected, this is the only wire that should be connected to the remote in on your amplifier.

Recap:
Remote in: none
Remote out: wire to remote in on amplifer
+ 12V: Direct connection to battery. Fuse wire within 18 inches of battery.
Ground: direct to battery is fine, power and ground should be the same size. The ground does not need to be fused. Your LC2i and your amplifier should share the grounding point, if possible.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Florida_Audio

[lithium 358]

3 hours ago, Florida_Audio said:

Edit: also curious... is a cigarette lighter voltmeter accurate or useful at all?

Should I start new thread, or just ask here....?

So one concern brought up is that with the LC2i it can stay powered on for longer than needed and potentially drain battery? How would be best to avoid this, assuming I still want to use the LC2i and not a passive LOC?

I read this elsewhere, seems legit advice? :

With direct power from the battery to the remote in, the LC2i is always on, and if your amp turn on lead is on the remote out of the LC2i as it should be, then your amp and LC2i never turn off. Power to the remote in on the LC2i negates the auto sense turn on feature of the LC2i.

Your power and ground wire direct to the battery are fine. All power wires from the battery should be fused.

You need to disconnect the remote in wire on the LC2i, and remove it from your vehicle if you want to take advantage of the auto on feature. If this feature does not work, then you need to locate a switched 12V power source and a wire from it to your remote in on the LC2i.

A wire from the remote out of the LC2i to your amplifiers remote in should be connected, this is the only wire that should be connected to the remote in on your amplifier.

Recap:
Remote in: none
Remote out: wire to remote in on amplifer
+ 12V: Direct connection to battery. Fuse wire within 18 inches of battery.
Ground: direct to battery is fine, power and ground should be the same size. The ground does not need to be fused. Your LC2i and your amplifier should share the grounding point, if possible.

if the auto sense feature doesn't work as it should than its trivial to run a remote wire to turn the lc2i and amp on. 

the voltmeters are tacky garbage. Unless you listen to music to with sustained tones the meter wont show you quick transient dips in voltage. Just do The Big Three and use your ears and eyes when you're listening to music. A 1kw amp shouldn't be tooo bad for most vehicles I would think. 

[Florida_Audio 55]

7 hours ago, lithium said:

if the auto sense feature doesn't work as it should than its trivial to run a remote wire to turn the lc2i and amp on. 

the voltmeters are tacky garbage. Unless you listen to music to with sustained tones the meter wont show you quick transient dips in voltage. Just do The Big Three and use your ears and eyes when you're listening to music. A 1kw amp shouldn't be tooo bad for most vehicles I would think. 

Just to clarify, when you said its trivial to run a remote wire to turn the lc2i and amp on, you mean its fine to do this and have it always on? I think I am bit confused about remote in and remote out lol.... both can be the remote wire you mentioned?

Sorry still learning...

[///M5 2,833]

Trivial as in easy to do.  If the autosense leaves it on all the time you will want to use a remote wire.

Remote wire here is the jargon used for the wire to "remotely" turn on your amplifiers.

[Florida_Audio 55]

Any1 had any experience with audio control products? Like their line output converters?

I know its probably "easy" enough that I should install my own stuff. But with new car and in general I don't have a garage space or really any tools or previous experience, I don't want to risk messing something up. I would rather pay someone with experience and knowledge to do a good job.

I was told from one shop owner that the LC2i are a pain to install because taping into the factory subwoofer doesnt always allow for a good enough signal to turn the LC2i on. And he ends up having to run a wire to the battery and troubleshoot other things often.

For sub, amplifier, and LOC install I was quoted around 250. One other place quoted me at 150 for the install. But when speaking with owners the guy charging 250 seems much nicer and willing to explain stuff and help me. The place for 150 I went to several years back and was decently happy with their work, but they don't seem to like to explain stuff. Not very friendly people....

So do you guys think 250 is an okay price? Seems a bit much, but he said would take 3 to 4 hours to install and thats around $75 an hour.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

8 hours ago, Florida_Audio said:

Any1 had any experience with audio control products? Like their line output converters?

I know its probably "easy" enough that I should install my own stuff. But with new car and in general I don't have a garage space or really any tools or previous experience, I don't want to risk messing something up. I would rather pay someone with experience and knowledge to do a good job.

I was told from one shop owner that the LC2i are a pain to install because taping into the factory subwoofer doesnt always allow for a good enough signal to turn the LC2i on. And he ends up having to run a wire to the battery and troubleshoot other things often.

For sub, amplifier, and LOC install I was quoted around 250. One other place quoted me at 150 for the install. But when speaking with owners the guy charging 250 seems much nicer and willing to explain stuff and help me. The place for 150 I went to several years back and was decently happy with their work, but they don't seem to like to explain stuff. Not very friendly people....

So do you guys think 250 is an okay price? Seems a bit much, but he said would take 3 to 4 hours to install and thats around $75 an hour.

I think that's CHEAP.  I'd charge at least $120/ hr for my labor.  As for the LOC, it's not difficult at all.  He's just letting you know it may take a little more if the voltage sensor does not work properly.  I have yet to see a sensor in the home or 12V side that functions properly every time.  Either the electronics are too sensitive or not enough and you either have a unit that never shuts off, never turns on, or just flops all over. 

Honestly, I'd talk to him and tell him you'd just like to have him run a switched lead to a relay to control the Audio Control and then use the remote out feature of it to turn the amp on.  This gives you a 12V switch you need and allows for timed on/off to eliminate any potential interference or voltage fluctuations.

[Florida_Audio 55]

13 hours ago, Tirefryr said:

I think that's CHEAP.  I'd charge at least $120/ hr for my labor.  As for the LOC, it's not difficult at all.  He's just letting you know it may take a little more if the voltage sensor does not work properly.  I have yet to see a sensor in the home or 12V side that functions properly every time.  Either the electronics are too sensitive or not enough and you either have a unit that never shuts off, never turns on, or just flops all over. 

Honestly, I'd talk to him and tell him you'd just like to have him run a switched lead to a relay to control the Audio Control and then use the remote out feature of it to turn the amp on.  This gives you a 12V switch you need and allows for timed on/off to eliminate any potential interference or voltage fluctuations.

Thanks. So I guess 250 is a good price. He seemed to be familiar with LOC and the LC2i specifically and saying how he normally has issues with them. So he should be able to know about the install well.

I am confused with how its hooked up then.... So the remote out feature for turn on is hooked up to the car's battery on the LOC and the amp? Each have their own 12V remote turn on wire to the battery, right? If thats what you are saying?

But then the signal for the LOC should use the wire from the factory subwoofer? He mentioned something about how using this wire sometimes causes issues as well i think?

Sorry for the confusion. Just bit lost on which wires go where, with LOC to Amplifier, from battery and the factory sub wire?

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Each piece of equipment will have a positive run that comes from the battery, straight to the + side terminal.  There will be a ground that gets connected to the steel chassis, or directly back to the battery.  For the remote, this is a 12V trigger lead.  Basically, it's a voltage controlled switch that normally comes from the headunit.  When the unit comes on, it sends 12V down this wire into the equipment.  This is what tells it to turn on.  The amp and LOC will require this.  That particular LOC though has circuitry that enables it to sense voltage through the speaker wires that are used as a signal source for the input to the LOC.  These circuits are sometimes temperamental, so that means sometimes remote line is needed for input to assure the LOC turns on and off as it should.  Now this unit also provides an remote output switch as well.   The ONLY wire(s) that will go to the battery are the 12V positive inputs.  The remote should come from the headunit if possible.  If not, he will have to install a relay and wire it up to a circuit that comes on and goes off with the ignition.

[Florida_Audio 55]

3 hours ago, Tirefryr said:

Each piece of equipment will have a positive run that comes from the battery, straight to the + side terminal.  There will be a ground that gets connected to the steel chassis, or directly back to the battery.  For the remote, this is a 12V trigger lead.  Basically, it's a voltage controlled switch that normally comes from the headunit.  When the unit comes on, it sends 12V down this wire into the equipment.  This is what tells it to turn on.  The amp and LOC will require this.  That particular LOC though has circuitry that enables it to sense voltage through the speaker wires that are used as a signal source for the input to the LOC.  These circuits are sometimes temperamental, so that means sometimes remote line is needed for input to assure the LOC turns on and off as it should.  Now this unit also provides an remote output switch as well.   The ONLY wire(s) that will go to the battery are the 12V positive inputs.  The remote should come from the headunit if possible.  If not, he will have to install a relay and wire it up to a circuit that comes on and goes off with the ignition.

Wow thanks a lot for the answer there!

Just to clarify, the remote line you are talking about in the beginning is the remote in? Which allows for the LOC to turn on.

But what is the remote output switch for then?

And you said the remote should come from the headunit if possible. This is the remote output? How would he get this from the headunit? After the wire goes from the stock amplifier thats in the car?

Sorry for the questions, after you gave a great answer....

[lithium 358]

2 hours ago, Florida_Audio said:

Wow thanks a lot for the answer there!

Just to clarify, the remote line you are talking about in the beginning is the remote in? Which allows for the LOC to turn on.

But what is the remote output switch for then?

And you said the remote should come from the headunit if possible. This is the remote output? How would he get this from the headunit? After the wire goes from the stock amplifier thats in the car?

Sorry for the questions, after you gave a great answer....

So a car battery is wired to the ignition of the car. When you start a car or turn the key to the ON position it will turn on other components in the car (hvac, lights, etc). This is accomplished with relays. When a relay is switched on it sends 12v from the battery to the components wired to that relay (lights for example). If a car didn't do this then the battery would be drained because all the components in the car would be constantly powered on. So if you look at basic wiring diagram for a headunit you will see the 12V constant power from the battery and accessory power (switched power from the ignition). You can think of the accessory power as the remote IN to the headunit. The headunit will then create a remote out [sometimes called the antenna out, (some cars use this signal to raise the antenna)]  which is wired to other audio devices in the car (amps, LOCs, DSP, etc). So these components are effectively passing through the accessory power from the car's ignition. 

Edited December 26, 2018 by lithium

[Tirefryr 1,742]

. . . .   And the Audio Control takes this one step further.  IT was designed as a solution to  problem.  You need a low(er) voltage signal for your amplifier input, so the LOC is instaled.  Every accessory (amp, crossover, processor, etc.) needs a signal (remote) to turn it on.  The Audio Control has the ability to create this signal.  It allows you to run a wire from the unit itself in case your factory headunit does not have a remote wire to switch the accessories on.  It's just used for simplicity.   Most people will mount the LOC in a trunk or hatch close to the amp, so it's just as simple to run a short piece of wire from the REMOTE OUT of the LOC into the REMOTE IN on the amp, and BOOM, you have all the control you need without a need for finding a switched lead in the car, installing a relay, and running extra wire.