Reason to get 2 vs 4 ohm subwoofer, same exact except ohm?

[Florida_Audio 55]

So I see theres a subwoofer that comes in a 4 ohm and a 2 ohm version. I believe a 2 ohm version would be easier to run and most D class amps are compatible with lower ohm rated subwoofers? So is the only reason between the versions, based on which amplifier you have?

Just trying to understand this. Thanks!

Also, yes I did buy an Acura TLX 2017 tech. With the ELS speaker system. It sounds pretty good but is lacking in quality bass. It has an 8 in subwoofer which sound distorted and horrible. I'll first start by getting a decent subwoofer and then speakers later.

 

Edit: also what SSA sub would be comparable to the JL 12w6 and one comparable to the JLw3?  I'm pretty sure that JL has good subwoofers with SQ but they are expensive due to the brand name etc... Looking for 12 inch subwoofer that leans towards SQ but still decent loud. thanks

The Icon 12" 1250W seems within my price range. except the RMS rating seems a bit much? So if I don't want to run an amp with more than 600 RMS rating, would that mean it won't sound as great?

Edited December 1, 2018 by Florida_Audio

[Armoto286 0]

It also depends on how many voice coils the subwoofer has and also depends on how many subs you want to run. Anyone correct me if I am wrong, but I would choose which subwoofer or woofers you want to go with, then worry about an amplifier.

[Armoto286 0]

Also, if you are just looking for another 8 inch woofer, but for some great output and sound, I would check out the ssa f8l. I haven't personally heard one, but I have read some great reviews about it! I wouldn't hesitate to buy one if my install needed something of that size.

[Florida_Audio 55]

Thanks. I am looking for a 12 inch sub. Not going to use the same spot the car factory subwoofer is in for the 8inch.

[Armoto286 0]

 

10 hours ago, Florida_Audio said:

The Icon 12" 1250W seems within my price range. except the RMS rating seems a bit much? So if I don't want to run an amp with more than 600 RMS rating, would that mean it won't sound as great?

Ssa just came out with the hellion. Power rating is 950wrms. Given your description, it may fit your needs better. I'm sure either one will sound great and have some good output on 600w as long as it is in the correct box. Maybe Aaron Clinton will chime in, as he has quite a bit more experience with those woofers. I myself am looking at the hellions. For the price, I am sure they would be hard to beat.

[///M5 2,833]

We should really start with your box and goals, then a sub is easy to recommend.  JL makes nice stuff, but the bang for the buck on them is far less than the SSA models.

As for which impedance to buy, you need to know what your goals are so that your choice of sub doesn't limit your amplifier choices.  They come in various coil configurations to allow for logical loading on an amplifier.  ie, if you buy a 2ohm stable sub amp it would be not so logical to have a sub or set of subs that would only allow you to load the amp with 4ohms (or 1ohm or anything other than 2 for that matter).

[Tirefryr 1,742]

JL products are not expensive because they're a name brand, they are expensive because they are a premium manufacturer.  All of their products are great and in demand and demand drives pricing. 

Let's throw the SQ term out the window in regards to subwoofers, it's a fallacy.  While certain drivers excel better in certain areas, most subwoofers are going to sound the same.  You can spend $100 and it can sound just like another $500 driver that is a "sound quality" driver, AND they can both easily get loud.  You're covering a small range in the spectrum here.  Just focus on picking a quality driver that will work for your application.  Narrow down your driver and how you're going to apply it, then pick an amp. 

 

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Keep in mind you're likely to encounter some processing of the signal from the factory electronics.  This is most likely a bass attenuation as volume increases.  I don't know for sure how the Acura system works, but you'll know it when you hear it. 

[Florida_Audio 55]

Ok thanks Armoto, that ssa sub looks nice but also bit concerned about the large RMS rated and how that affects the limited wattage I have. Main reason is I don't want to upgrade my battery or alternator as that would be expensive.

M5, when you say start with the box, do you mean the room I have available? Or ported vs sealed? Fair enough about the ohm, makes sense. Just wondering cause I've seen some subwoofers that are exactly the same, yet differ in Ohm rating. I guess just made different ones to match the amp of the customer?

So for the box, I only want one subwoofer, not 2. Ported preferred as I have had a ported rockford fosgate sub P1 before and liked it decent enough. I know its quite a low end, entry level subwoofer, only had around 200 to 250 RMS sent to it also. Looking for an upgrade for my new car.

Tirefryr, thanks for the info. So you said SQ on subwoofer is not a good way to describe a sub, but better to talk about the driver. what do you mean by the "driver"? like the line or series of subwoofer? I don't know what a "quality driver" is?

Also as far as the processing of signal from factory electronics, do you mean the possibility of bass roll off at higher volumes? because i am keeping the headunit, I would like to get a LOC or DSP. Still sorta confused about which one is better for my application. I would like to get one that has enough channels for 1 subwoofer, and 2 front speakers, and 2 rear speakers. just in case i do upgrade speakers later, but just to have that easy upgrade already installed when the time comes if i choose to. i saw several AudioControl items that have bass restoration or Accubase, whatever those do, but seems to help with bass roll off. So many types of these things, hard to tell which is best for my application.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Pay no attention to power ratings.  You can not under power a speaker. 

When I say driver, that's just a different term for speaker, subwoofer, etc. . .   So a quality driver would be a subwoofer of quality design and build that fits your application.  The old adage of "you get what you pay for," certainly applies here, but it is pretty simple to spend as little as $100 and still get a quality sub.  

If you want to use SSA, subs, I highly recommend them.  I have no experience with the new drivers, but do with the older stuff, and they make a quality product with excellent service.

As for the processing, you can try the LOC.  I don't know how the factory handles processing.  Some are done in the headunit, but most have a separate processor/amplifier combo.  I would do a bit more research to see if could tap into the signal before it is processed such as getting it straight off the head before it hits the factory processor or amplifier.

[///M5 2,833]

As for the clarification you asked from me, box is important for a few reasons.  A great sub in a poorly sized/built/designed box will sound worse than a crappy driver in a perfect box.  You  asked about what impedance to buy.  This depends on your amp and of course how many drivers you are going to put in your car.  Considering the factors you really need to know/verify that the box you plan for will work before driver shopping in order to make sure you buy what you need.

You stated "I have had a ported rockford fosgate sub P1 before and liked it decent enough".  I would also be curious why you aren't using another P1 and setup like you had before if it was okay for you...not that it is a recommendation, but it is always good to know what about that setup you are trying to improve (if that is your goal) before pointing you too far in any direction.  

 

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

On 12/2/2018 at 10:12 PM, Tirefryr said:

 

If you want to use SSA, subs, I highly recommend them.  I have no experience with the new drivers, but do with the older stuff, and they make a quality product with excellent service.

 

On 12/1/2018 at 7:16 AM, Armoto286 said:

Ssa just came out with the hellion. Power rating is 950wrms. Given your description, it may fit your needs better. I'm sure either one will sound great and have some good output on 600w as long as it is in the correct box. Maybe Aaron Clinton will chime in, as he has quite a bit more experience with those woofers. I myself am looking at the hellions. For the price, I am sure they would be hard to beat.

Thank you guys.  Love the SSA support.  We did have a guy swap out his W7 for an Icon, and was 6 paragraphs long happy.  Haha.  Anyway, the point that Ryan and Sean bring up is lets' sort out the system needs first before picking the drivers.  Yes, less power than rated is no biggy.  I ran a Zcon (2250rms sub) off a small US Acoustics 240 watt 2 channel for a little while.

[Notorious97200 339]

I love this forum. even if they have nice (SSA) products, they only want you to improve your car sound system ! 
They won't push you towards theirs products.

Buuuut I can tell you their speakers sound very good. I've tried several SSA subs and loved them, and the Evil tweeters are still in my car : they're amazing.

Check the available room you have for the sub box, and work from there.

 

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

40 minutes ago, Notorious97200 said:

I love this forum. even if they have nice (SSA) products, they only want you to improve your car sound system ! 
They won't push you towards theirs products.

Buuuut I can tell you their speakers sound very good. I've tried several SSA subs and loved them, and the Evil tweeters are still in my car : they're amazing.

Check the available room you have for the sub box, and work from there.

 

[Florida_Audio 55]

On 12/2/2018 at 10:12 PM, Tirefryr said:

Pay no attention to power ratings.  You can not under power a speaker. 

When I say driver, that's just a different term for speaker, subwoofer, etc. . .   So a quality driver would be a subwoofer of quality design and build that fits your application.  The old adage of "you get what you pay for," certainly applies here, but it is pretty simple to spend as little as $100 and still get a quality sub.  

If you want to use SSA, subs, I highly recommend them.  I have no experience with the new drivers, but do with the older stuff, and they make a quality product with excellent service.

As for the processing, you can try the LOC.  I don't know how the factory handles processing.  Some are done in the headunit, but most have a separate processor/amplifier combo.  I would do a bit more research to see if could tap into the signal before it is processed such as getting it straight off the head before it hits the factory processor or amplifier.

Thanks. I just assume, in most applications, if a sub is rated at 2500 RMS and another is rated at 500 RMS, then if you run an amp with 500 RMS to each, then the sub rated at 2500 RMS would have a lower output? or the RMS rating of subwoofer should not affect difficulty in driving it?

My system does have a factory amplifer within it. But am not sure about where to tap into the signal and such yet.

On 12/2/2018 at 10:28 PM, ///M5 said:

As for the clarification you asked from me, box is important for a few reasons.  A great sub in a poorly sized/built/designed box will sound worse than a crappy driver in a perfect box.  You  asked about what impedance to buy.  This depends on your amp and of course how many drivers you are going to put in your car.  Considering the factors you really need to know/verify that the box you plan for will work before driver shopping in order to make sure you buy what you need.

You stated "I have had a ported rockford fosgate sub P1 before and liked it decent enough".  I would also be curious why you aren't using another P1 and setup like you had before if it was okay for you...not that it is a recommendation, but it is always good to know what about that setup you are trying to improve (if that is your goal) before pointing you too far in any direction.  

 

I liked the rockford fosgate P1 yes, but feel like i would want to be able to have more bass in general during certain songs. I was under the assumption that another subwoofer may have better quality as well, but I heard previously here to not focus on quality of low frequencies. So I figure a higher rated subwoofer with RMS should produce more bass, and potentially sound better. I was just using the rockford fosgate loaded enclosure that came with it, made by the company. I'm sure there are better boxes also.

I will measure my trunk space and see what I would be okay with dedicating to the subwoofer box when I have free time. Been super busy with work and other chores. Thanks for the help everyone

Edited December 6, 2018 by Florida_Audio

[///M5 2,833]

Pretty easy to improve on the P1.  Sounds like it is mostly output you are focused on which is good to know.  Let us know what size box and space you have and that will make choosing easier.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Funky Pup or die!

[Florida_Audio 55]

15 hours ago, ///M5 said:

Pretty easy to improve on the P1.  Sounds like it is mostly output you are focused on which is good to know.  Let us know what size box and space you have and that will make choosing easier.

I'll just use a tape measure. Should have time tomorrow I hope. I agree that output is my focus, but what else is there to focus on with a subwoofer? If quality is not a thing? Just curious what else I should consider?

Also considering my budget. Prefer to keep all under $1,000. But seems like it may be around $1,400 or so. Would consider higher budget depending on benefits.

LOC, amp kit wiring, amplifer itself, sub box, subwoofer itself. Also a bass knob at the front lol! What seems reasonable within this budget? I think under $1000 should be okay.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Florida_Audio

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

13 hours ago, Tirefryr said:

Funky Pup or die!

[Randal Johnson 544]

Death by BASS !!!

[///M5 2,833]

13 hours ago, Florida_Audio said:

I'll just use a tape measure. Should have time tomorrow I hope. I agree that output is my focus, but what else is there to focus on with a subwoofer? If quality is not a thing? Just curious what else I should consider?

Quality is a buzzword and subjective.  Important yes, but you should describe what about the quality you would improve otherwise it is sort of a generic request that leads down a  rabbit hole.  Exactly why we asked what you had before and what you wanted to improve.  We would like to help you meet YOUR goals, not ours

[Florida_Audio 55]

7 hours ago, ///M5 said:

Quality is a buzzword and subjective.  Important yes, but you should describe what about the quality you would improve otherwise it is sort of a generic request that leads down a  rabbit hole.  Exactly why we asked what you had before and what you wanted to improve.  We would like to help you meet YOUR goals, not ours

Thanks. I spoke with Aaron about difference between Icon and Helion. I think he said Icon was warmer and i forgot what word he used to describe helion. I guess then my question is what words can be used to describe the "quality" of a subwoofer? I have not really listened to much else other than the rockford fosgate p1. I do know my factory 8 in subwoofer is horrible. almost gives me a headache, cant really describe how it sounds other than just bad.

still crazy busy, but want to measure tomorrow I hope. Between work and applications for Doctorate programs been busy

Edited December 8, 2018 by Florida_Audio

[Florida_Audio 55]

So I measured the space I would prefer to use in my trunk. My old subwoofer enclosure was around 17 inch deep, by 19 inch wide, and 16 inch tall. I could use similar measurements.

But to fit my new trunk nicely would be 14 inch deep, by 18 inch wide, and 15 inch tall.  I can always go a few inches more for depth, but for the length can go much more. And height maybe just 1 or 2 inch more room if needed.

By depth I mean straight ahead when facing trunk and looking towards from of car. And length I mean from left to right when looking into trunk.

Any chance a premade box can be used to save on cost? Or would a custom box really benefit that much more? Cause I do not have the tools nor the work area to make my own box.

[///M5 2,833]

Hmm.  Easiest way for more bass is more box.  If that is truly all you have for space you are going to have a problem getting a 12.  I would bet you will also be not super happy with the output.

[Florida_Audio 55]

8 hours ago, ///M5 said:

Hmm.  Easiest way for more bass is more box.  If that is truly all you have for space you are going to have a problem getting a 12.  I would bet you will also be not super happy with the output.

How much space should I be looking to make available? Don't want to take up whole trunk. But I can always go deeper in size and length if needed. But the height can only be around 16 or 17 in.

Considering the SSA hellion and the rockford fosgate T1. The T1 is rated at 800 RMS and is bit more within the range for power consumption that I would like to use.

Edited December 10, 2018 by Florida_Audio