best 12 inch subs for SEALED box 1000rms range

[///M5 2,833]

4 hours ago, akuma4u said:

thats what i got now but i find its a peaky response with stuff sounding good around tuning freq only so some songs sound nice but a lot dont.. when i was running sealed most sounds sounded great with the exception of very low freq songs,. so this is why i prefer sealed, plus i can get more cone area with 2 12s, so if i get a low f3 sealed woofer i can get all songs sounding good.. thats my goal.

Build a box that doesn't suck and that problem goes away.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

[akuma4u 0]

5 hours ago, ///M5 said:

Build a box that doesn't suck and that problem goes away.

my box is a design approved and recommended/tweaked by sundowns technical guy.

im thinking its my car and trunk.. a lot of the bass gets trapped in the trunk,. when i fold the back seats down , like on most cars, a big hole should appear but for me i have a 8 inch high x 28 wide hole,. its almost like my trunk is a large ported box,. and then i put another ported box inside it,...not a good car to run systems in. Its a genesis coupe btw. The car came with a factory 8 inch JBL sub firing up into the cabin mounted on the rear deck. For an 8 inch it sounded great. why? cuz all that bass was flowing directly into the cabin and bypassing that shitty bass trap trunk.  so not only do i have a bass trap trunk,. i have a trunk that has a very small opening where i can only fit a box with max dimensions 13.5 high x 30 wide x 16 deep. So im limited in enclosures.

note: i was running a single sa 12 ported,. sounded decent in my car,. sold it when i upgraded to the zv3 12, when the guy who bought it came to pick it up he wanted some help to put it in his car and to adjust his amp. So i helped him, gave it a demo,. night and day difference,. i almost didnt want to sell it when i heard how much louder it was in his car. he had an older acura integra,. hatchback.. no thick metal trapping the bass in his trunk. the cabin and trunk were one unit and all the bass filled up his car proper. My car.. the exact opposite

ive almost thought of selling my car and getting a small suv or hatchback.. but ive done too much work on my ride to let it go

[akuma4u 0]

5 hours ago, Thumpper said:

 

stay ported but tune them FLAT with less 

than 8% port velocity

 

you would forget all about sealed

i wish i had the skill level to know how to do that. but unfortunately , im still at the learning stage and havent reached that level yet.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

On 9/8/2017 at 6:30 PM, akuma4u said:

since the f3 on sealed is so high,. im curious how it shines in sealed as it wouldnt go that low to play stuff that has a low bassline.. if u had the choice which would u choose the li or icon for a 1000rms sealed set up?

If you are ordering right now, it is only LI as the Icon is still on hiatus.  But the Icon 12 is great sealed in a 1.1 cube box, I have done it a few times.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

On 9/8/2017 at 7:58 PM, Infinite913 said:

Run 1 12 icon in a 4th order 2:1 ratio. Best of both worlds. I can speak for the icon and say it is one of the best subs i have ever heard. I loved it so much i put 8 18s in an astro. I should mention I have had every ssa sub from dcon to evil. I have had dss ethos, jl w7, psi,nvx, american bass, pioneer, Sony, DC, RE and Fi. There is just something about the icon that outshines all them other subs with its heavenly bass. 

Wow!!! That is awesome to hear.

[akuma4u 0]

Just now, Aaron Clinton said:

If you are ordering right now, it is only LI as the Icon is still on hiatus.  But the Icon 12 is great sealed in a 1.1 cube box, I have done it a few times.

since im still at the learning stage.. can u please explain how the f3 in sealed boxes works. You stated the f3 for a 1 cube box (id be putting it in a larger box maybe 1.3ish cubes)  for the icon is 48hz, so realistically once inside the car, how low will the sub play before it loses 3db? will songs that are in the 28-35hz range still play nice and loud?

ive heard many great things about the ICON and am debating whether to wait for it or go for the LI,. i guess once i figure out how the f3 for sealed boxes works and how low the icon will actually play then i can make a proper decision.

 

[///M5 2,833]

No one can answer that.  Depends on the car.  There is a huge boost at the bottom end though which means you are chasing the wrong spec.

[Notorious97200 339]

Honnestly, I think you need a better box, made for your trunk, and your car.

The SSA ICON is a fantastic driver (I've owned Kicker L7, Icon, SSA Xcon, SSA Zcon, Fi btl N2, Pioneer subs,...etc).

2 would shine on a 2000 watts amp.

A single  12" Icon or Xcon (more output) in a ported box should give you what you need on that same amp.

Good luck.

 

[akuma4u 0]

3 hours ago, Notorious97200 said:

Honnestly, I think you need a better box, made for your trunk, and your car.

The SSA ICON is a fantastic driver (I've owned Kicker L7, Icon, SSA Xcon, SSA Zcon, Fi btl N2, Pioneer subs,...etc).

2 would shine on a 2000 watts amp.

A single  12" Icon or Xcon (more output) in a ported box should give you what you need on that same amp.

Good luck.

 

the only way i can run 2 is if they are sealed as i dont have enough space to fit a dual 12 ported bo

what would you say the difference in sound is between the icon and xcon? other than xcon having more output?

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

1 minute ago, akuma4u said:

the only way i can run 2 is if they are sealed as i dont have enough space to fit a dual 12 ported bo

what would you say the difference in sound is between the icon and xcon? other than xcon having more output?

The Xcon is a little more pin point pressure with a smooth sound, the Icon is a little warmer kind of surrounding bass if that makes sense.

[akuma4u 0]

6 hours ago, Aaron Clinton said:

The Xcon is a little more pin point pressure with a smooth sound, the Icon is a little warmer kind of surrounding bass if that makes sense.

kinda makes sense.. which driver would you choose? im leaning towards the warmer surrounding bass of the icons

i can run 2 xcon 12s sealed as well, i have space for that, but i can only give them 2000rms total.

what would get louder and sound better on 2000rms 2 icons or 2 xcons? (on a sealed set up)

benefit of the xcons is that i can throw 3500 or 4000 rms later on if i choose to upgrade which should get me much more output. with the icons, i can maybe later get a 2500rms amp but only giving it an extra 500 more rms wouldnt make much of an audible difference than the 2000rms i have now. actually its a bc2000 so i believe its 2250rms but not sure if its a true 2250 or over rated?

 

Edited September 14, 2017 by akuma4u

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

15 hours ago, akuma4u said:

kinda makes sense.. which driver would you choose? im leaning towards the warmer surrounding bass of the icons

i can run 2 xcon 12s sealed as well, i have space for that, but i can only give them 2000rms total.

what would get louder and sound better on 2000rms 2 icons or 2 xcons? (on a sealed set up)

benefit of the xcons is that i can throw 3500 or 4000 rms later on if i choose to upgrade which should get me much more output. with the icons, i can maybe later get a 2500rms amp but only giving it an extra 500 more rms wouldnt make much of an audible difference than the 2000rms i have now. actually its a bc2000 so i believe its 2250rms but not sure if its a true 2250 or over rated?

 

It is more a thing of preference.  The sound quality is excellent for both in the proper enclosure, the sound signature is the difference (I described above).  The Icon might be on a longer hiatus than the Xcon and up.  So timing wise, sealed box wise, power handling down the road wise, it leans towards the Xcon.

[akuma4u 0]

20 hours ago, Aaron Clinton said:

It is more a thing of preference.  The sound quality is excellent for both in the proper enclosure, the sound signature is the difference (I described above).  The Icon might be on a longer hiatus than the Xcon and up.  So timing wise, sealed box wise, power handling down the road wise, it leans towards the Xcon.

is it safe to underpower subs by almost half of what they are rated for? staff at sonic electronix said it is dangerous and not recommended because it will warp the voice coil or something like that..

so the xcon is also out of stock?

[frogcase2002 393]

Lol cant believe someone said that to you that worked with audio . If underpowering a sub was dangerous or bad for a sub every time you turned down your volume it would damage it cause it would be getting less and less power

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

4 hours ago, akuma4u said:

is it safe to underpower subs by almost half of what they are rated for? staff at sonic electronix said it is dangerous and not recommended because it will warp the voice coil or something like that..

so the xcon is also out of stock?

You are totally fine.  There is no law that says you have to send RMS power.  Music is dynamic and rarely is an amplifier sending out its rated power.  That sonic electronix employee could not be more wrong.  The Xcon will be back from hiatus sooner than the Icon.  I am trying to find out as to when that is exactly.

[akuma4u 0]

ive been told that the AA havoc 12s get very loud in sealed boxes and they look very similar to the SSA icon/xcon series subs but have more xmax and can handle 1500rms.. seems like an icon on a mild dose of steroids.

Are these in stock at the moment? im trying to find sealed enclosure specs and f3 etc on them..

whats your opinion on them?  have you heard them in a sealed set up before?

[Phase 1 0]

It's rare to see subs that are mechanically sealed only. The Earthquake SWS comes to mind. Most subs, according to T/S and looking at the database in BassBox Pro will work the same in either or but ported naturally has loudness advantages. Unless one is more sensitive than the other, even the Sundown SD's or old school Solobaric's get louder in ported and they were intended for sealed.

Also, what about the f3 of the car?  I think you're putting too much importance on that particular T/S parameter. The choice of sub is only important to the mechanical aspects of what you are wanting. 90% of your output is your box design assuming the rest of your install is on point. You can build a box to make most any sub sound how you want. Cabin gain plays a huge role as well. You have the F3 of the enclosure which is outside, having no relevance once inside your car. Vehicles act like a mechanical EQ, which is why the same system can sound so much different between truck, sedan, hatch..etc.

Just focus on the sub that provides the mechanical aspects you are looking for and build a box around it. Simulate it in software using your vehicles acoustics. You can tell a lot about a subwoofer just by it's suspension compliance which should loosen up once it's completely broke in. A sub that doesn't have a very linear compliance after break in, won't perform as effectively in the lowest frequency ranges. Once in a car, you can have a relatively high F3 point for the enclosure yet still have in car response flat to 20hz because the 12 db (give or take) of the vehicle counter acts the drop in output.

 

[jcarter1885 995]

On 9/15/2017 at 8:26 AM, akuma4u said:

is it safe to underpower subs by almost half of what they are rated for? staff at sonic electronix said it is dangerous and not recommended because it will warp the voice coil or something like that..

so the xcon is also out of stock?

Could of possibly meant people who under power their subwoofers, may turn up gain/bass boost and drive their amp into clipping to get a desired output. But like stated above underpowering a subwoofer is not an issue.

[akuma4u 0]

8 hours ago, Phase 1 said:

It's rare to see subs that are mechanically sealed only. The Earthquake SWS comes to mind. Most subs, according to T/S and looking at the database in BassBox Pro will work the same in either or but ported naturally has loudness advantages. Unless one is more sensitive than the other, even the Sundown SD's or old school Solobaric's get louder in ported and they were intended for sealed.

Also, what about the f3 of the car?  I think you're putting too much importance on that particular T/S parameter. The choice of sub is only important to the mechanical aspects of what you are wanting. 90% of your output is your box design assuming the rest of your install is on point. You can build a box to make most any sub sound how you want. Cabin gain plays a huge role as well. You have the F3 of the enclosure which is outside, having no relevance once inside your car. Vehicles act like a mechanical EQ, which is why the same system can sound so much different between truck, sedan, hatch..etc.

Just focus on the sub that provides the mechanical aspects you are looking for and build a box around it. Simulate it in software using your vehicles acoustics. You can tell a lot about a subwoofer just by it's suspension compliance which should loosen up once it's completely broke in. A sub that doesn't have a very linear compliance after break in, won't perform as effectively in the lowest frequency ranges. Once in a car, you can have a relatively high F3 point for the enclosure yet still have in car response flat to 20hz because the 12 db (give or take) of the vehicle counter acts the drop in output.

 

i use to run 2 jl 12w3v3s sealed (due to my space limitations, if i want to run dual 12s i have to do it sealed) and those had an f3 around 44 i believe and if i played anything id say around 40hz or below the bass was noticeably softer. perhaps thats the nature of my car. This is why i am looking for a lower f3 sub so i can avoid this happening again. 

on a side note,. i have been looking into aero ports and how they save space. I may be able to run dual 12s with aero ports..

i have a home theater sub, a 12 inch polk audio 150rms sub.. that thing is SO good. down firing aeroport. makes my entire room shake and you can feel the low end in your body and ripples and all that good stuff. I wish i could have this effect in my car but even using a 2000rms amp and 650 dollar sub, i was not able to achieve it ... yet.. maybe i will try building a new enclosure with an aero port firing into the cabin up thru the rear deck.  The current enclosure i have now was designed by sundowns technical support guy.

I really think the design of my car and trunk is holding me back from achieving my bass goals. I remember someone with the same car as me who was also a bass head tell me that since the trunk design sucks and so much bass doesnt freely flow into the cabin as easily as other cars, the only way to achieve this is with a LOT of power and/or many subs.

[akuma4u 0]

5 hours ago, jcarter1885 said:

Could of possibly meant people who under power their subwoofers, may turn up gain/bass boost and drive their amp into clipping to get a desired output. But like stated above underpowering a subwoofer is not an issue.

the first place i read this warning from manager was in the review section on one of the subwoofers they sell. Some guy left a review stating he was only giving it half or 1/3rd the rms and it still sounded good then under that in bold it says managers note: under powering a sub for extended periods of time will warp the voice coil and is not suggested.

i tried finding the review so i could post it here but wasnt able to find it .. but i will again and will post it here when i do.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

On 9/16/2017 at 0:52 PM, akuma4u said:

ive been told that the AA havoc 12s get very loud in sealed boxes and they look very similar to the SSA icon/xcon series subs but have more xmax and can handle 1500rms.. seems like an icon on a mild dose of steroids.

Are these in stock at the moment? im trying to find sealed enclosure specs and f3 etc on them..

whats your opinion on them?  have you heard them in a sealed set up before?

All AA subs are on hiatus too.  I have not heard one sealed, but I am sure it preforms very nicely.  If you find one used, that would be sweet.

[SS Teacher 177]

On 9/15/2017 at 1:37 PM, Aaron Clinton said:

You are totally fine.  There is no law that says you have to send RMS power.  Music is dynamic and rarely is an amplifier sending out its rated power.  That sonic electronix employee could not be more wrong.  The Xcon will be back from hiatus sooner than the Icon.  I am trying to find out as to when that is exactly.

Yes please, I've had an XCON recone on order for several weeks now.

[akuma4u 0]

1 hour ago, Aaron Clinton said:

All AA subs are on hiatus too.  I have not heard one sealed, but I am sure it preforms very nicely.  If you find one used, that would be sweet.

any time estimate on when the havoc will be back in stock?

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

1 hour ago, SS Teacher said:

Yes please, I've had an XCON recone on order for several weeks now.

As soon as we have status updates, we will update all orders.