sensitivity and frequency response

[blowthemup 21]

What changes do you have to make to an enclosure to increase the sensitivity and or frequency response of a woofer?

[///M5 2,833]

What do you mean by "increase frequency response"?

As for the sensitivity, you can't increase it but you can taper the response so that there is more output with the caveat of no free lunch.  ie, in other words you can gain some output at certain frequencies but you will usually then lose elsewhere.  The mechanism to do this is by changing the size of the enclosure and tuning.

[blowthemup 21]

Well if you remember I am working with a 12" zcon, I have been pretty happy with it for the most part. It gets loud and hits really hard but sometimes I feel it doesn't have the best transition or response to changes in frequency. Seems a little sluggish when that bass line is moving quickly and is tight grouped if you follow what i'm saying. Was maybe considering playing around with the enclosure and tuning but just wanted to get educated first.

[///M5 2,833]

What are your enclosure specs now?

[Randal Johnson 544]

Amplifier (driver control) can have ALOT to do with this also.

Just saying

[///M5 2,833]

9 hours ago, Randal Johnson said:

Amplifier (driver control) can have ALOT to do with this also.

Just saying

It could in the 80's, not so much today...although there are pieces of garbage for amps that will easily prove my statement wrong.

[blowthemup 21]

18 hours ago, ///M5 said:

What are your enclosure specs now?

2.5 cubes @ 32hz

[Randal Johnson 544]

2 hours ago, ///M5 said:

It could in the 80's, not so much today...although there are pieces of garbage for amps that will easily prove my statement wrong.

Yea, guess I'm a little old school when it comes to this stuff. But there are a few newer Amplifiers that pride themselves in the old school Driver Control ways, but they are very few and far between. 

To the op, my old team use to have what they called an LMS to specifically tune out their enclosures. I don't know much about it, just another old school way of doing things I guess. I'm thinking that if you increase battery power you might can help out your Amplifier(s) with this. ... Or specifically tune your enclosure for exclusive sound quality or sound pressure levels. Trying to accomplish both is sort of give and take it seems. 

Good luck my brother.

[blowthemup 21]

1 hour ago, Randal Johnson said:

Yea, guess I'm a little old school when it comes to this stuff. But there are a few newer Amplifiers that pride themselves in the old school Driver Control ways, but they are very few and far between. 

To the op, my old team use to have what they called an LMS to specifically tune out their enclosures. I don't know much about it, just another old school way of doing things I guess. I'm thinking that if you increase battery power you might can help out your Amplifier(s) with this. ... Or specifically tune your enclosure for exclusive sound quality or sound pressure levels. Trying to accomplish both is sort of give and take it seems. 

Good luck my brother.

I have no ideal what your talking about lol. I am running a Sundown Audio SCV-4000d backed up with a xs power d3100. I would like to believe my electrical is pretty decent since I hardly get any voltage drop.

[///M5 2,833]

3 hours ago, Randal Johnson said:

Yea, guess I'm a little old school when it comes to this stuff. But there are a few newer Amplifiers that pride themselves in the old school Driver Control ways, but they are very few and far between. 

To the op, my old team use to have what they called an LMS to specifically tune out their enclosures. I don't know much about it, just another old school way of doing things I guess. I'm thinking that if you increase battery power you might can help out your Amplifier(s) with this. ... Or specifically tune your enclosure for exclusive sound quality or sound pressure levels. Trying to accomplish both is sort of give and take it seems. 

Good luck my brother.

The LMS analyzer is a piece of crap.  I programmed an open source device that did as much as that in a 2 week independent study in college and unlike the LMS mine did MLSSA as well.  Your team also probably had no idea how to even use a microphone (measurement ones require particular positioning and corrections in sound fields).

Measurement analyzers aren't old school, it just doesn't require that you spend $50k on one anymore.  Either way, it wouldn't help the OP at all.

4 hours ago, blowthemup said:

2.5 cubes @ 32hz

Interesting.  Can you quantify what frequencies you think the sub is exhibiting the "muddy" behavior at?  While trying to figure that out, listen to the sub without the front stage on the same passages.  Does it stay the same?

[blowthemup 21]

I will have to run a a few songs through audacity that seem to not do so well and see what frequency they are. Everything in the mid 30's up to about 50ish does good. Anything higher and it seems peaky and maybe a little harsh. Anything below 30 doesn't sound that well, seems to just shake the car but that is below tuning so that is probably normal. I know lower notes typically are not as warm or clean sounding as the higher frequency's. I feel like I want to have more sound quality and be able to play a bigger variety of music. I get tired of listening to decaf/rap all the time lol. I am by no means knocking on the Zcon but maybe its not designed to do what i'm looking for?

[///M5 2,833]

Lets focus on making sure it isn't the install.  Zcon and muddy isn't what I would expect.

[blowthemup 21]

56 minutes ago, ///M5 said:

Lets focus on making sure it isn't the install.  Zcon and muddy isn't what I would expect.

Right on, doesnt help im in a little civic that is made up of practically nothing. I deafintley need to put a little more time in to fixing a few rattles. That would greatly improve sound quality for sure. I just wish there was more bass over a variety of music, but then again if the songs dont have bass then there is nothing to look for I suppose.

[frogcase2002 393]

Are you forsure of the specs of the enclosure are right? what is the port area? .Where is the sub and port facing

[///M5 2,833]

15 hours ago, blowthemup said:

Everything in the mid 30's up to about 50ish does good. Anything higher and it seems peaky and maybe a little harsh. Anything below 30 doesn't sound that well, seems to just shake the car but that is below tuning so that is probably normal

Sounds like everything is "muddy".  When you do the listening, please make sure to use real media.  ie, a CD or an MP3 that YOU ripped and is 192k or more.  There is a ton of SUPER poorly processed media floating around and it is amazing how bad that crap can sound.

Also when letting us know more details on the box, outline all the crossover settings you currently have.  Both on the sub and the front stage.  If you have rears...shut them off permanently.

[blowthemup 21]

Pioneer 80prs with image dynamic ctx65cs running active, no time alignment. No rear speakers just front stage. Sub is low passed at 63hz with 36db slope. Mids are low passed at 6.3khz and high passed at 80hz both with 24db slope. Highs are high passed at 8k with 24db slope. All are at 0 as far as level adjustment goes. EQ is zero across the board with everything cut by 1 from 125hz down. This little bit of cutting cleaned things up some, removed some of the harshness. Sub and port to the rear with 40in*2 of port area. I do notice a big difference in quality when using actual real CDs. I just don't have very much music this way.

[jcarter1885 995]

Why do you have your mids crossed so high as well as your tweeters. I would lower both of them, just my .02

[blowthemup 21]

13 minutes ago, jcarter1885 said:

Why do you have your mids crossed so high as well as your tweeters. I would lower both of them, just my .02

I use to have them a little lower, there isn't a huge difference that i can tell bringing the highs down to 6k or the mids down to say 60hz or 50hz. Honestly I really been thinking of setting up some new highs in some custom glassed pillars. My highs now are not that great, seem to get harsh when lowering them.

[///M5 2,833]

If those tweets can't play lower than that...sell that garbage.  

Step 1 for you is to listen to the sun alone and see if the mud follows.  

[blowthemup 21]

9 minutes ago, ///M5 said:

If those tweets can't play lower than that...sell that garbage.  

Step 1 for you is to listen to the sun alone and see if the mud follows.  

I hear that, maybe I just need to give the install a little more tlc as well and do a little more tuning.

[jcarter1885 995]

36 minutes ago, ///M5 said:

If those tweets can't play lower than that...sell that garbage.  

Step 1 for you is to listen to the sun alone and see if the mud follows.  

Couldnt agree more on selling those tweets. I have a pair that can play as low as 2000hz or lower depending on your listening habits.

[blowthemup 21]

How low are your average tweeters suppose to be capable of playing. I'll push them down and see how it sounds but I didn't feel like I was gaining much out of doing so.

As far as the sub goes, I take it things seem in line based on the info I provided?

[blowthemup 21]

I'm new to the whole active thing, just tuned things in by ear. I settled at 8k cause anything lower seemed like they really started to hiss. I don't get much output out of them anyhow so I really should look at stepping it up to something up to the task.

[frogcase2002 393]

What mids and highs amp

Edited July 30, 2017 by frogcase2002

[altoncustomtech 773]

I had a set of the ID CTX 6.5" components as well. They're a decent budget set but you definitely have a ton to gain running active with better drivers.