Introduction

[Billy Jack 145]

On 2/17/2017 at 9:35 AM, ///M5 said:

My current truck is using the stock angles which are similar to your "passenger" proposal but once I set it up to sound right in the drivers seat it sounds like ass in the passenger get seat.  No surprise though as that HAS to be the case if you optimize for you.  The cure is you demo with you sitting in the passenger seat.  System is for you...build it for YOU

I had this same problem in my S10 running active 2 way. Every passenger would ask why the music sounded slightly delayed on there side. I was running the Alpine 9887 HU and the time alignment made it sound perfect on the drivers side, but left a delay on the passenger side. I finally adjusted it out, and added a amp and you couldn't hear it anymore. 

[///M5 2,833]

12 hours ago, Billy Jack said:

I had this same problem in my S10 running active 2 way. Every passenger would ask why the music sounded slightly delayed on there side. I was running the Alpine 9887 HU and the time alignment made it sound perfect on the drivers side, but left a delay on the passenger side. I finally adjusted it out, and added a amp and you couldn't hear it anymore. 

Delayed.  ROFL.

You CAN'T adjust it out.  Defies Physics.  No way to make things aligned for both.  Ok, perhaps there is a way in a mythical world where you can have each and every driver EXACTLY the same distance from the driver and passenger.

Now if you tell me you were running an ambiophonic array then my statement would be different, but you said active 2 way...

[Billy Jack 145]

7 hours ago, ///M5 said:

Delayed.  ROFL.

You CAN'T adjust it out.  Defies Physics.  No way to make things aligned for both.  Ok, perhaps there is a way in a mythical world where you can have each and every driver EXACTLY the same distance from the driver and passenger.

Now if you tell me you were running an ambiophonic array then my statement would be different, but you said active 2 way...

I will have you know it was a single cab 2002 S-10, so a small area and I adjusted the time alignment more to the center, so when the driver, and passenger leaned on the center console it was near perfect. Notice I said NEAR. Before, I had it adjusted solely for the driver, but after my friend said it was off, I sat in the middle and set it that way. Now if we leaned on the door and hung half way out the window, yes it wasn't right. Trust me I know exactly what I'm talking about.  

[///M5 2,833]

In other words you compromised the driver settings so that the passengers were equally compromised.  That isn't fixed for either person then...

[Randal Johnson 544]

With out a dedicated (all things considered) center channel setup, you're gonna have a VERY hard time to stage and image driver and passenger. Ask me how I know.

Might want to listen to Sean on this one brother. 

[Billy Jack 145]

12 hours ago, Randal Johnson said:

With out a dedicated (all things considered) center channel setup, you're gonna have a VERY hard time to stage and image driver and passenger. Ask me how I know.

Might want to listen to Sean on this one brother. 

You guys aren't understanding. Have either of you never road in or drove a S-10 there tiny. So when both passenger and driver are leaning on the center console there heads are almost touching, hence their ears are basically in the same place. That and I could just adjust it back to my side if I where alone with the push of a button. And remember I did say (near perfect) cause as close as we set leaning on the armrest the other ear was still a few inches off. Either way it don't matter as the truck and system is long gone I put just over 230k miles on it and let a friend have it on payments. Craziest thing about the truck was the original clutch lasted 250k miles before going out I have no idea how all my other S-10's went out at 100k must have been the low gearing. Lol

[///M5 2,833]

22 minutes ago, Billy Jack said:

You guys aren't understanding. Have either of you never road in or drove a S-10 there tiny. So when both passenger and driver are leaning on the center console there heads are almost touching, hence their ears are basically in the same place. That and I could just adjust it back to my side if I where alone with the push of a button. And remember I did say (near perfect) cause as close as we set leaning on the armrest the other ear was still a few inches off. Either way it don't matter as the truck and system is long gone I put just over 230k miles on it and let a friend have it on payments. Craziest thing about the truck was the original clutch lasted 250k miles before going out I have no idea how all my other S-10's went out at 100k must have been the low gearing. Lol

You are the one not understanding.  Time alignment effects staging dramatically.  Even a VERY small change of inches can make a large difference.  You should actually use your ears and listen to things before just throwing up on the forums.  It would really help your posts make more sense.

And yes I've driven S-10's, installed stereo's in S-10's and also understand the Physics of Acoustics.

[Randal Johnson 544]

I've had a short cab / short box S-10 back in my mini lowrider truck phase. It had a 350  with a 700r4 trans. Wasn't worried about audio in that one though. Guess what we were doing every Friday night with that one ?? LOL

[jones82joshua 31]

Had some time to play around yesterday and today..

Driver's side tweeter is too close, I think I'll be moving it back a little bit and aiming it more towards my left ear - as it sits now it's pointed at my right ear. They sound phenomenal otherwise, crossed at 3.15khz, 12db. Spent about 5 hours driving and listening. Will try a lower x-over setting tomorrow. Ran Auto-EQ and T/A, tried with and without EQ, ended up leaving it on, and making small adjustments to the T/A myself.

[jones82joshua 31]

Ignore the bare wire, and the cutouts on the bottom, I was using them for spacers to figure out how much room I had when closing the hatch.

Wired to 1 ohm, both d3400's hooked up, still have to set the gain and subsonic. With the gain all the way down, cdplayer turned up to the point of the clip indicator light coming on, only drops from 14.4 to 13.7.. Tomorrow I'll set the gain and play around some more.

[///M5 2,833]

I'd listen to them with the subs off and no eq or t/a.  The 2 vehicles I used the PRS in both sounded better with the t/a off and eq flat than when I ran the auto eq.  Both were tough installations, but still it is worth noting in particular since you are still setting things up.

[Randal Johnson 544]

12 hours ago, jones82joshua said:

Had some time to play around yesterday and today..

Driver's side tweeter is too close, I think I'll be moving it back a little bit and aiming it more towards my left ear - as it sits now it's pointed at my right ear. They sound phenomenal otherwise, crossed at 3.15khz, 12db. Spent about 5 hours driving and listening. Will try a lower x-over setting tomorrow. Ran Auto-EQ and T/A, tried with and without EQ, ended up leaving it on, and making small adjustments to the T/A myself.

Nice tweeter setup. Personally, I'd leave it where it is (Similar to mine). Keeps your width wide and helps with a strong center. Stage depth will be more pronounced with mids. Know what I mean by this ???

It's hard to drive and tune at the same time. You need to be very relaxed and focused. Can't do that and drive too. Just Saying

Also, maybe I missed it, but get you midrange / midbass up as running. Then tune (like Sean said, with the sub bass off). This will help with music detail. 

Keep it up brother, I'm tuned in !!!

Edited February 23, 2017 by Randal Johnson

[jones82joshua 31]

7 minutes ago, Randal Johnson said:

Nice tweeter setup. Personally, I'd leave it where it is Similar to where mine is). 

It's hard to drive and tune at the same time. You need to be very relaxed and focused. Can't do that and drive too. Just Saying

Also, maybe I missed it, but get you midrange / midbass up as running. Then tune (like Sean said, with the sub bass off). This will help with music detail. 

Keep it up brother, I'm tuned in !!!

Midrange is running, but that needs to be tweaked too. Which reminds me, I picked up a set of Speaker Tweakers that I need to put in yet, if I can remember where I put them..

I don't do much, if any, tuning while driving. I spent a little over half hour with the initial setup/tuning before I took off.

Thank you!

[jones82joshua 31]

New goodies. Another set of terminals coming yet.  Edit: Imgur having issues, uploaded to SSA.

Edited March 2, 2017 by jones82joshua
Imgur issues

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

I stole your picture with the two Xcon's.

[jones82joshua 31]

After some listening with the SQ 7K(Love the amp - except for the LOUD fan), I think I've reached the limits of my current enclosure(small-medium tapered transmission line). While it hasn't gone up in SPL number wise, it sounds much better and smoother over the entire frequency range. Currently peaks at 144.5 between 41-43 and slowly tapers off above and below, I'll have to do a frequency response sweep before I pull everything out.

I believe I'm close to hitting the thermal limits with this setup as well, as I've noticed faint coil smell at almost full tilt(dropping to no lower than 13.5v and no clip indicator light - though I know that's not accurate either).

 

Debating on moving up to 4 15" XCon's in a C-Pillar wall.. Kind of want to do 6th, but may stick with a simple ported enclosure. I'll try to get everything measured tomorrow to see what kind of space I actually have.

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions, or anything I should be aware of before I start?

Current ported idea:

[Jay-C76 333]

On 2/19/2017 at 1:10 AM, jones82joshua said:

 

Just out of my experience, the design you have on the port has yielded you a very poor output.

With the numbers you put up & equipment, you cou do far better with a simple redesign of your enclosure.

The port design is killing your output. With a dual common chamber you should never increase then decrease port area as you have done in the design. Modeling the design with such a dramatic change in the flow on the port is next to impossible to accurately model.

You should keep the port equal throughout in the design and you will put up higher numbers on output.

I managed going from 146 up to a 150 on 2-15" Icon (3500rms @ 32hz) just by redesigning and testing about 6 different enclosure designs.

Change the internal net volume and port volumes, then adjust tuning to accommodate you vehicle peak. After that, model the enclosure to find a comfortable preference on the tuning to accommodate your response graph.

[///M5 2,833]

Yep.  Just as I stated before, that box is not doing you anything positive.  A very simple replacement will give you nice gains.  Don't wait until you buy new drivers.