2008 Dodge Challenger

[putergod 0]

Power charts mean nothing. IT's the entire package you have to look at. Hello. . . If that is the basis of your argument, then why arent' Semi trucks killing everything out there? They have far more horsepower and torque than anything on the road.

As for your "Ford was busted for overating the Mustang" comment, check your information on exactly WHY they changed the rating on it. Horsepower is not everything anyways. The 302 Mustangs had 300ft.lbs of torque which really helped to propel them out of the hole quicker with there LIGHTER WEIGHT.

I have been following the 5.0L craze since it began. The Camaro was not a factor until the 4th gen F-body.

If the Camaro WAS so much better, what happened to it? Why did it go away? Why did it not sell? Why did it NOT spawn an entire new generation of hotrodding?

It doesn't matter much of anything, you simply cannot deny the Mustang what it's due. Everyone hates the Yankees because they are successful. Everyone hates JL because they are successful. You want to pick on the Mustang because it has been a constant staple in the US, and icon. It has achieved a legendary status that not many other cars have. It is noted throughout the world. It started a new generation of car making. It spawned an entirely new aftermarket, it's own national race series and to this day continues to outsell it's competition, no matter what.

The Camaro is and was always a great car. But that is as far as it goes. IT will never achieve the status the Mustang has.

OMG... You must own one and have caught the "Mustang Disease".

The argument is which is faster, not which sold "better", but wich is faster.

The Camaro has been faster it's entire life but maybe a FEW select years (yes I know I already said this, but I obviously must say it again). 300ft/lbs of torque huh? Yea... that's much better than the Camaro's 345. Yup, sure is.

And I already know WHY they changed it. I read up on it WHEN IT HAPPENED. They were forced to.. plain and simple. sure, I've read the "pro ford" websites that say "they were trying to be more honest". Bullchit... they were forced to. And, hypothetically, if it WERE true... then why the hell weren't they honest before? Catch 22 I tell ya!

Edited April 8, 2007 by Mike M

[Tirefryr 1,742]

YOu have no idea what I am saying. You are not comprehending the type. Read it carefully. Power is NOT a guarantee of performance, plain and simple. You have to take into effect weight, distribution, gearing, air, traction, etc. . . So your argument about the Camaro having more power and being superior because of that is MOOT.

You are also severly misinformed about the power rating issue as well. Are you getting all your information from the web? Do you believe everything you read? It's on the web, it must be true. I know firsthand as My uncle worked on the Mustang powertrain line. There are many different ways of determining output, just like amplifier power. Their were revisions to the way the Mustangs were rated in the later years and this followed suit with lower power ratings. Plain and simple. "Ford was trying to be more honest," where did you get that? Really?

You're just like all the other haters out there. I meet them all the time. Jealous of the success of a brand name and doing anything possible to put it down simply because you do not like it.

I've been around Mustangs since birth. My grandfather worked at Ford, my uncle still does to this day. It's been a part of my life and family forever and will continue to be. I've studied the Mustang's history and am aware of it's future. I have a lifetime worth of FIRSTHAND experience with the car, it's heritage, it's following, it's achievements, it flaws, it's flops, all of it. There's simply nothing you can do or say to properly back up your arguments in my eyes. Your entire argument, in fact, is based upon the fact that the Camaro has continually had more power output than the Mustang and you continue to rely on this. IF that works for you, that is fine, but everyone knows that power is but one factor.

[mrray13 30]

i'm no mustang guy, and tire will attest to that, but he speaks the truth. the camaro's only reason for existance is the mustang. and the mustang killed it in sales. and yeah, late 3rd gen, all 4th gen f bodies are badder then their mustang counterparts, no base cobra will stand up to a ss or ws6, but the mustang has always held it's own. and with the demise of the camaro, they really took off. teh aftermarket is jsut as strong for the mustang as it is for the f bodies, and due to the stangs lighter weight, there is quite of bit of potential to beat the fbodies at their own game.

now, i'll admit i'm no camaro guy either, personally, i'm a vette guy. so there reallyisn't any bias in me at all, i dislike both pony cars equally. but one can't deny the potential in the mustang and it's heritage. the fact remains, it's the original and it's the best. if it wasn't, the camaro (by virtue of it's better performance in the last years) would of spelled the end of the mustang. but it didn't. didn't matter the z28 would whoop the cobra and the ss would kill anything with a pony on it. mustang won. plain and simple.

and if you want to argue overall performance, IIRC, the quickest street legal car going is a fox body notch back. somethign like low 7's, high 6's on drag radials.

that hurt to say, it really did, lol. now if only i knew if i had my mustang bought...$1500 for a 86 5.0 with basic boltons. how could i not buy it, lol???

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[audio-neon 34]

i'm no mustang guy, and tire will attest to that, but he speaks the truth. the camaro's only reason for existance is the mustang. and the mustang killed it in sales. and yeah, late 3rd gen, all 4th gen f bodies are badder then their mustang counterparts, no base cobra will stand up to a ss or ws6, but the mustang has always held it's own. and with the demise of the camaro, they really took off. teh aftermarket is jsut as strong for the mustang as it is for the f bodies, and due to the stangs lighter weight, there is quite of bit of potential to beat the fbodies at their own game.

now, i'll admit i'm no camaro guy either, personally, i'm a vette guy. so there reallyisn't any bias in me at all, i dislike both pony cars equally. but one can't deny the potential in the mustang and it's heritage. the fact remains, it's the original and it's the best. if it wasn't, the camaro (by virtue of it's better performance in the last years) would of spelled the end of the mustang. but it didn't. didn't matter the z28 would whoop the cobra and the ss would kill anything with a pony on it. mustang won. plain and simple.

and if you want to argue overall performance, IIRC, the quickest street legal car going is a fox body notch back. somethign like low 7's, high 6's on drag radials.

that hurt to say, it really did, lol. now if only i knew if i had my mustang bought...$1500 for a 86 5.0 with basic boltons. how could i not buy it, lol???

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Murray, you can't deny that the Ls1 camaro's were badass, especially considering that they dyno'd higher than they were rated, and should have had the same hp/tq rating as the corvette.

I would have to say that f-body mustangs even to this day are a force to be reckoned with. The 3rd gen camaro (the tpi models) were an absolute pain to get more hp out of. They did their rated hp, but that was it. The f-body's were faster, in a straight line, on a track etc... It is all about power to weight ratio. That is why it takes a 330 hp camaro to run in the low-low 13's, and a 275 hp neon to do the same. That is why miata's and lotus elise's can be fun with tiny engines.

When push comes to shove, the mustang always has sold better, has had some better performance years, but the camaro has had its share of better performance years. The camaro is, and should be the working mans vette, while the mustang isn't playing little brother to any other ford car. Hell even a head cam mustang is a threat to a head cam camaro, maybe not the ls1's but we are not talking entire seconds slower.

[///M5 2,833]

They were so badass nobody bought them and they had to stop making them.

[Acidburn 10]

They were so badass nobody bought them and they had to stop making them.

they were badass racecars

they were very impractical every-day cars

and GM didn't exactly market them well

[topgun 262]

They were so badass nobody bought them and they had to stop making them.

they were badass racecars

they were very impractical every-day cars

and GM didn't exactly market them well

Wait, GM marketed them????

[mrray13 30]

and i'm not denying the LS1 camaro..reread my post. i say the 4th gen whoops ass...going so far as to say a cobra can't run with a z28, let alone a ss. but before that, it was a coin flip. heavier camaro with more hp going against a lighter mustang with similiar hp to weight, better driver usually won. brand meant dick.

no, the vette sourced LS1 is a bad sumbitch, but in the case of the camaro, it was too little, too late. maybe this goaround, GM will have learned their lesson?

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Acidburn 10]

They were so badass nobody bought them and they had to stop making them.

they were badass racecars

they were very impractical every-day cars

and GM didn't exactly market them well

Wait, GM marketed them????

i have seen atleast 2 posters that relate to 4th gen. Camaros so i guess that's something

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

I am not taking sides on this discussion. But, when I was working/interning with Motor Week Television, we went to Robleing Road raceway every Feb. for a week. In 1997 we took a beat up press car, bright yellow Cobra, and a freshly broken in from the factory Camaro SS (with a prototype single sewer pipe sized exhaust, and one off hood and head light treatment, neither of which made production, mistake in my eyes.) Before we did any hot laps or push for best track time we did 0-60 and the 1/4. One successive back to back runs, including swapping drivers (who both have raced professionally), reversing the direction etc, the Cobra won each time. And not just by a hair, it was a clear win time after time. If you don't believe me I have it on VHS tape at my mothers house. As I have not owned either car, it does say something that the mustang continues to sell like crazy and has a fantastic following. Just to clear things up, my car is a 300ce, and my wifes honda is about to be replaced by a E320.

[mrray13 30]

maybe that prototype type exhaust cost the camaro, or the hood treatment? who knows? but in every publication ever printed, no obra ever beat an LS1 powered ss in anything. the cobra would run with a z28, teh z28 would kill the gt, and the ss dominated all.

maybe dominated is a strong word, but it's awfully close to what happened. now throw a few hundered bucks at the stang, and bam! your competeting. however, throw a few hundred at that LS1 in the form of spray and hold on to your pants! those things love that stuff!!

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

eeeeeeeee

[audio-neon 34]

Here is some of the marketing on the fourth gen camaro:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xODy89tomwg

[audio-neon 34]

Here is a 4th gen camaro vs 05 mustang gt

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Fye2lHg_If0&amp...ted&search=

4th gen slightly modded vs 07 with juice:

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

maybe that prototype type exhaust cost the camaro, or the hood treatment? who knows? but in every publication ever printed, no obra ever beat an LS1 powered ss in anything. the cobra would run with a z28, teh z28 would kill the gt, and the ss dominated all.

maybe dominated is a strong word, but it's awfully close to what happened. now throw a few hundered bucks at the stang, and bam! your competeting. however, throw a few hundred at that LS1 in the form of spray and hold on to your pants! those things love that stuff!!

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

eeeeeeeee

the hood was ram air, and the exhaust was less restrictive than production, or at least that is what the rep told the writters

[mrray13 30]

in all h2h publications, the ss wins. i have yet to see one otherwise...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Le2o2MeoZLo&amp...ted&search=

cool video where an evo gets trounced, from a roll (it's game), by a sprayed, big blocked 69 camaro.....

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

e

[mrray13 30]

http://www.fbodyonline.com/vbarticles.php?...mp;articleid=10

all 1998 there, z28 vs cobra vs firebird and the chevy weighs less..hmmmm

http://www.fbodyonline.com/vbarticles.php?...amp;articleid=8

2002 there, ss vs cobra. and the ss is lighter?? wow, lol...

http://www.fbodyonline.com/vbarticles.php?...amp;articleid=9

1999 gt vs z28. and this time the stang is the lightweight..lol..

in all three of those, it's the LS1 motor and the camaro wins in every performance (straight line) catagory.

http://www.fbodyonline.com/vbarticles.php?...mp;articleid=11

and for the haters...1993. z28 vs cobra. LT1 still wins the straight line catagories.

and that's jsut 2 minutes of research, lol...

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Tirefryr 1,742]

[mrray13 30]

and too think, i'm supposed to be buying an 86 fox body, lol...

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Tirefryr 1,742]

You'll need a cam, heads, intake, and Mass air conversion.

[mrray13 30]

and 5 lug, short throw and maybe huffer?

it's got some basics, headers, cold air intake, i wanna say x-pipe, but i'm not 100%. after a bit of reading, if it doesn't already have them, 3.73 cogs will find their way into the axle, which i'm assuming is an 8.8.

anyway, i just got off the phone with the owner, and it is my car. he's contacted the previous buyer and let him know he's repossessing it, so it's just a matter of time before the first picture is taken, lol. not too mention the first 1/8th mile pass!! (gimme a break, it's all we have locally)

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Acidburn 10]

Here is some of the marketing on the fourth gen camaro:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xODy89tomwg

that commercial is sweet!

and Kent,

[mrray13 30]

Here is some of the marketing on the fourth gen camaro:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=xODy89tomwg

that commercial is sweet!

and Kent,

lemme get the car first, lol.....

i've got a crap ton of pics on my camera, just too lazy to upload them bastages, lol. but as soon as i get the car, pics will be coming!

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Godsmack 361]

Hey quick question

5spd 305 88 formula with flowmasters all the way.......faster than a mid 90's stang?

J

[audio-neon 34]

godsmack, quite possibly, i would call it a good match though.

[///M5 2,833]

Hey quick question

5spd 305 88 formula with flowmasters all the way.......faster than a mid 90's stang?

J

I don't know that 305 is a dog.