New: SI 302 Comp Set

[sundownz 197]

No, you did not read that incorrectly... it says 302. Today I built the final incarnation of the SI 302 crossover, Nick and I are both very happy with the result. The set uses a 7" poly-cone midrange driver (5 7/8" cut-out) and a textile dome tweeter. Some key features:

- Designed for OFF-AXIS mid installation (door install)

- Extremely strong midbass (50 - 63Hz X-over is no problem at all)

- High power handling for an entry level set, rating pending

* They are taking ALOT more abuse than my old XR set... I destroyed an XR mid in my car.

Crossovers:

15-gauge inductors (massive)

Low Tolerance Audio-Grade Resistors in Attenuation network

Hand-picked combination of Metal Film, Poly, and Electrolytic Capacitors

Crossovers were designed and built by myself -- all 302 crossovers will be hand assembled and tested by me

The crossovers have gone through several incarnations and have been tweaked by listening tests done by Nick and myself. I have a large pile of spare crossover parts laying about that didn't make the cut...

Hopefully we can get some pictures tomorrow... price is TBA. This is our entry level set, expect pricing under that of the 307 set.

PS: This set is in my car... and is staying there. If that says anything to you.

Edited March 28, 2004 by sundownz

[Electrodynamic 2]

These door components are VERY nice sounding. Quite possibly the best sounding "entry-level" components I've ever heard. Jacob just came by and let me listen to them and they are (finally ) tweeked in and sounding great.

BTW: Jake, check your PM's.

[JMigs 0]

awesome guys!!! I wouldn't mind hearing them myself...

'matter of fact, I wouldn't mind hearing my system myself...it's been forever since I have.

Josh(letting the wife drive the car w/sound )

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Why do I have to live in white trash USA where there's just no fun stuuf going on! I wanna hear these babies!!!!!

And whoever said there was more than corn in Indiana wasn't lying..... We have a ton of soybeans too!

[Qckrun 1]

I wouldnt mind hearing a set of these.... wanna send a set out to California... and ill see if people wanna get some . If i like them ill buy them, if not ill send them back

[Jordan94z 0]

Interesting, the entry level has the 7

If the price fits my liking might have to check these out this summer, jeez too much equipment to try out

oh and what size tweeter will be used?

Edited March 29, 2004 by Jordan94z

[02ram 0]

Why do I have to live in white trash USA where there's just no fun stuuf going on! I wanna hear these babies!!!!!

And whoever said there was more than corn in Indiana wasn't lying..... We have a ton of soybeans too!

*Ditto* Same in IL. bud. I would love to move out west, I love the outdoors, woods, mountains. Will I ever do it, I uuuuuuuuhhhhhh i don't know.

[bigger_george 2]

You should add bunch of different sizes, would be easier for some of us to install

[Bavarian3 0]

howcome u guys call them entry level components? how much are they? Whats the power handling? whats the size? Is this the only components u guys are coming out with? and how do u compare them to the JL XR's. I thoguth the XR's sucked so hopefully these are much better. Any pics?

[sundownz 197]

howcome u guys call them entry level components? how much are they? Whats the power handling? whats the size?  Is this the only components u guys are coming out with? and how do u compare them to the JL XR's.  I thoguth the XR's sucked so hopefully these are much better.  Any pics?

Entry level, meaning that they are below our 307 set.

At this point we are thinking around $250 + Shipping for price.

Power handling is right around 100-watts RMS.

Size was listed in first post: 7" mid with 5 7/8" cut-out

No, these aren't the only components. We have the 307s and upcoming 327s.

I owned XRs for quite some time... while they far from 'suck' as you say (honestly, you must have heard a poor install) I prefer the 302 set to them for several reasons:

1) The XR midrange doesn't like alot of abuse... the 302 midrange doesn't mind it, plus the midrange driver in the 302 is nearly 'bottomless' -- I can't push the cone far enough down with my hand to bottom the coil.

2) The midbass is quite a bit stronger on the 302 set. They will handle a much lower crossover frequency than the XRs without issue.

3) The 302 mid is designed for off-axis performance, so does much better in a door than does the XR mid without EQ. The 5,000Hz crossover point of the XR set doesn't do much to help them off-axis in a door either (any 6.5" driver will be rolling off dramatically by then in a door).

4) The tweeter on the 302 set is a textile dome... which I prefer hands down to metal domes, even the XR aluminum dome which is very tame for a metal dome. It is much more laid back and natural to my ears.

PS: Nick has heard my car with the XRs and with the 302s... so he may have further comments for you.

Edited March 29, 2004 by sundownz

[hoss 0]

No, these aren't the only components. We have the 307s and upcoming 327s.

tisk tisk jake... you completely forgot about the big boy 502's

[Jalla 0]

Thats what I'm waiting for...

The 502's seems wery promising.

The tweeters were insane.

Would 've been funny as he|| to run a complete SI setup in a comp here in Norway. As I've never participated in such an event I can run whatever I want.

Got any amp preferences Nick? Will my Planet Audio P704 (the "old school" PA line, not the new crap 4*70 W/4 ohm) manage to pull the 502's? I'll be using active crossovers (ofcource) and bi-amping'em.

What amp would be good for two 12 "D2's? I allready got one with the sweet claw basket Another 12" would rock!

Or maybe a 15...?

Running the 12" from 80 - 45, and the 15 from 45->...

Hmmm....

Any ideas...?

Edited March 29, 2004 by Jalla

[Bavarian3 0]

sundownz - sweet man thanx that pretty much ansered all my questions, disliking the XR's is just my opinion. Ive heard them in two different installs and just didnt like them. Im sure SI's new component sets will be awesome and ill definetly be looking into the 502's when they come out. Will these components work well in kick panels? the kick panels i have are stock, not custom, and theyr just pointed straight.

[sundownz 197]

sundownz - sweet man thanx that pretty much ansered all my questions, disliking the XR's is just my opinion. Ive heard them in two different installs and just didnt like them. Im sure SI's new component sets will be awesome and ill definetly be looking into the 502's when they come out. Will these components work well in kick panels? the kick panels i have are stock, not custom, and theyr just pointed straight.

Right, some people do not like the XR set for several reasons... but it is a very accurate set, in an objective manner. I think that, perhaps, the mid being crossed over so damned high might be part of the reason for your dislike of it. Seems to lack a bit of "attack" that other sets have... I suppose neutrality is the word for the sound. Alot of people really don't like that sound.

On to your question... the 302 is NOT made for kicks. The mid is designed for Infinite Baffle, off-axis, installation ONLY. As for the 502 set, you will have to direct that question at Nick -- he is the man in charge of that set

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

pictures please?

[Jordan94z 0]

On to your question... the 302 is NOT made for kicks. The mid is designed for Infinite Baffle, off-axis, installation ONLY. As for the 502 set, you will have to direct that question at Nick -- he is the man in charge of that set

Which is perfect for an Fbody... 7 will fit in the door.....

Where did you mount the tweeters in your car when listening?

[sundownz 197]

On to your question... the 302 is NOT made for kicks. The mid is designed for Infinite Baffle, off-axis, installation ONLY. As for the 502 set, you will have to direct that question at Nick -- he is the man in charge of that set

Which is perfect for an Fbody... 7 will fit in the door.....

Where did you mount the tweeters in your car when listening?

My tweeter is in the factory Firebird location.

[Electrodynamic 2]

Just to shed some light on the 502's - they were/are a custom-built component set that would probably end up retailing for $2000+ and sell on our web site for at least $1700. Hoss's tweeters are insanely huge and are going to be a ***** to install due to their complete lack of mounting tabs, holes, anything. If I were to do a set for consumers (Hoss is my friend who lives about 20 minutes away from me) it would definately use the same midrange but use different tweeters and midbass drivers, which basically equals a completely new design.

On to the 302's - the mid can handle a LOT more abuse than the XR's can, that's for sure. The midbass is definately there. And as Jacob said, they are designed for OFF-AXIS use only. That mid on-axis would not sound very good due to its peak in the upper register when placed on-axis. But off axis it is nice and smooth in the upper register. The tweeter is the same one used in the 307's, but the crossover point was changed to mate up with the mid. There are a couple other things that were done with the crossover network, but we won't disclose any of that information. The 302 and 307's both use very good/steep slopes on the tweeter in order to protect it among other things.

And to cap it all off, the 327's are coming... 'not sure when or how soon, but they're coming.

[hmmm... 0]

hows that component set compare to stuff like the vifa speakers and peerless speakers. right now i got 6.5 inch peerless csc-x and lpg tweeters, and im thinking about switching them over to max fedelity tweeters with 7 inch Vifa MG's.

will the 302's be able to outperform both of those setups? hopefully they can ( so i can run a full SI speaker car)

[sundownz 197]

Unfortunatly I haven't heard those setups to compare...

But if that is the Autosound peerless CSC-X... to me it seems that the 302 set has better midbass. I've only heard the Peerless as a dedicated midbass though.

[hmmm... 0]

yes its autosound version, if you had to compare the 302's tweeter to something what woud best compare to it in your opinion?

[Jalla 0]

Just to shed some light on the 502's - they were/are a custom-built component set that would probably end up retailing for $2000+ and sell on our web site for at least $1700. Hoss's tweeters are insanely huge and are going to be a ***** to install due to their complete lack of mounting tabs, holes, anything.

----------------------------------------------------------

And to cap it all off, the 327's are coming... 'not sure when or how soon, but they're coming.

So there will be quite a time before the 502's appear (if they do...) ?

going to BrownBread my car thorougly and do a more proper install of my BA PRO components now, but they are most likely to be replaced during next winter.

Any chance the 502's might show up until then? Or the 327's...?

[sundownz 197]

yes its autosound version, if you had to compare the 302's tweeter to something what woud best compare to it in your opinion?

Sounds like a good Textile dome IMHO it is several steps ahead of the Audax TM025F1 tweeter... to me it captures all the detail of the XR tweeter without the fatigue. I simply prefer it to the XR tweeter... and I ran the XR tweeter for probably a year or more.

In my car the only adjustment I have made on the tweeter so far is -2dB @ 8kHz with the narrowest Q I have and I believe this to be due to the way it is mounted in the door and not the response of the tweeter itself. Similar things happen when you don't flush-mount a tweeter in a home speaker project, and it's definatly not flush-mount in my car... heck, it's not even on a quasi-regular surface.

Nick has heard more tweeters than I have if memory serves me, so he may have further comments for you.

[Ceasefire 0]

I can vouch on the fact that the XR tweeter is a bit harsh on the ears ... definitely some fatigue goin on there. and i have them set at -1.5db on the xover too...

these new 302's sound very enticing ... for $250 no less ... made exclusively for IB in door installs, design for offaxis ... stronger midbass than the XR's ... much more withstanding midrange .. sounds too good to be true!

here are some Q's:

1) .. what separates these entry levels from the 307 and 327? is it merely powerhandling? i mean, if these 302's are putting out impressive midbass, would we be able to audibly hear a difference in lowend performance in comparison to the other two?

2) .. maybe this was answered earlier and i missed it .. but you mentioned the XR mids are crossed around 5k and they've rolled off by then in doors ... what are these guys crossed at in the upper range?

wow.. getting excited .. maybe this summer will be a significant change in sound in my ol civic afterall :boink:

[sundownz 197]

If the XR mid were to be install on-axis I may have to give them the edge in midrange detail... although very slight. But, again, we are after the in-door market with the 302 set so that is irrelavent.

1) The 302 has an entirely different midrange driver... the 307 set is more of an audiophile kick-panel oriented set. The 302 has more midbass than the 307, in part, since it is a much larger diameter driver and it has parameters VERY well suited for IB door installs. Most people, if not all, who use the 307 has a seperate midbass driver. The 327 midbass will be up there with the 302 set, since it moves up a cone size (still a little less area than the 302) -- but the 307 and 327 are a significant move up in midrange detail and dynamics. As has been stated, the 302 is for those of us who don't want kick-panels... it does it's job in a door.

2) I won't say exactly where they are crossed over... but it is almost a full octave lower than the XR set. The response graph also has a gradual rise up until the crossover frequency starting about where the driver beings rolling-off off-axis... this makes it pretty much flat when actually installed off-axis. Hence we list them for off-axis in-door duty only.

I believe Nick is going to offer the option for crossover boxes with this set as well, like the 307 set. I'm not sure about pricing for the boxes. He's also got a few pics up his sleeve... hopefully he can get them ready for posting soon.

Edited March 31, 2004 by sundownz