Amp crossover and component crossover

[abuadam 0]

Say you have 1 amp with or without an internal crossover that you intend to use for a set of components with an external passive crossover. Is it necessary to utliize the amp internal crossover or another external crossover in addition to the component crossover? OR is it enough to filter out the low frequencies with only the passive component crossover?

Thanks for input

[dave_Edwards 1]

It really is not as simple as it seams

If you use both the crossover slope will increase----

the passives from the Comps.=12dBs per octave and the internal of the amp= 18 or 24dBs(whatever it is rated at)

so the total slope would be 30dBs----you have to reolize that for ever order slope(6dBs) phase and response is going to suffer(might not sound differant but on a RTA it would)

so more is not always better

any other questions shoot

[abuadam 0]

It really is not as simple as it seams

If you use both the crossover slope will increase----

the passives from the Comps.=12dBs per octave and the internal of the amp= 18 or 24dBs(whatever it is rated at)

so the total slope would be 30dBs----you have to reolize that for ever order slope(6dBs) phase and response is going to suffer(might not sound differant but on a RTA it would)

so more is not always better

any other questions shoot

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks much for the reply! So, does that mean I could run the open wattage (unfiltered) from the amp to the component crossover only? would this be enough filtration for the different frequencies? OR is it necessary to run the internal crossover in the amp to the passive crossover on the comps?

Or in other words, do i want to use:

amp crossover + component crossover

-or-

only component crossover

FYI - i have an i/s2200 I want to use each channel for a set of BA Z6 comps. Is the Z6 crossover good enough to handle the filtration on it's own? This is why i'm asking....thanks again

Edited July 23, 2006 by abuadam

[dave_Edwards 1]

try it both ways----see which YOU think is better----me I use the DEQ(dual 31 band eq/TA/ and 4 way crossover with adjustable slopes and points) PLUS the Crossovers from an Alpine SPX 177a set(2001 type X stuff-----IIRC the crossovers are 24dBs on the woofer and 30dBs on the Tweeter with built in tweeter protection(I also use smaller filters close to the tweet themselves)-----play around with it and tell me which sounds best to you

[abuadam 0]

Ok, that confused me even more in some ways...but i did take from it that it's possible to use both...so I will try that. And thanks again for your time!

[mrray13 30]

it is possible to use both..

but what dave was saying is simply this...

try it with both xovers on and then turn the amp crossovers off...see which you like.

dave was saying he doesn't use the amp xovers in his setup, rather he has an external processer with it's own xover settings and he uses his componet xovers with an extra filter for the tweeter.....

me? i use the xover settings in my headunit and the passive xovers with the componets....but then again, my componets aren't amped yet and without the h/u filters on, the memphis xovers don't filter out enough of the lowend to protect the mids at , um, clipped volume....

yeah, that's n0obish, but i get carried away sometimes......

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[abuadam 0]

Alright, that makes it clearer. I will try to do both of them to see which I like better...it's as simple as putting the amp filter to the 'none' position!

Thanks

[///M5 2,833]

Most likely the only crossover that will help outside the passive would be to HP the mids so that the bass doesn't overwhelm them. If you add two 12db crossovers together you get a 24db which will further cut out those low freq's that can overdrive your components.

[Bigpete123 1]

wow, this is interesting. I just learned something new again.

So if I sent an unfiltered signal to my passive crossovers, I would be trusting that the manufacturer knew what they were doing... In other words, the slopes are set by the manufacturer to complement the drivers in the system... So what purpose would I have for using my amp's crossovers at all? In fact, wouldn't too agressive of a slope hurt the sound quality/flat frequency response of the system as a whole?

I guess if you have a situation like mrray where you run them at high enough volumes that the slopes of the passive crossovers won't be enough to protect the speakers, but assuming I send only the acceptable range of wattage to my components, it shouldn't matter right? This will make my current installation much easier, really.

Edited July 24, 2006 by Bigpete123

[abuadam 0]

Bigpete, those are the kinds of things i'm wondering. Anyone know if the Z6 crossover IN THEORY is just that good where it could be an adequate use on its own and, in fact, should be better than using both the amp and component crossover???

....beyond the fact of my lisenting to it and hearing for myself...

[Bigpete123 1]

well, if I were you here's what I would do. In fact, since I'm in the middle of my installation, I'll tell you what I AM going to do.

I will use the crossovers on both, but I will set the crossovers on the amp slightly out of the speakers' ranges. In other words, if I have a mid that the manufacturer says can handle 60Hz, I will set the amp's crossover to 50Hz and let the passive crossover do it's job between 50Hz and 60Hz. That way, the amp crossover only filters the more "dangerous" frequencies and allows the passive crossover to operate as designed...

I have been trying to figure out my crossover points in another thread under the "Advanced topies / SPL & SQ" forum for the last week or so. I think I was in a similar mindset as you are in- that I wanted to set the dials on my amps and be done with it.

Unfortunately, it's a much less concrete process than that. There are certain limits that you can determine on paper, but in the end, it all comes down to what sounds the best... So I'm gonna start with the settings that seem correct on paper, and tune to the ear from there... It seems like the only way to go...

[abuadam 0]

I'm sure I'll end up doing precisely the same you are doing initially....for safety purposes. I'll then monkey around with settings to see which sounds the best. As you said, that will be the best way to determine what is safest and sounds right.

Good luck with your install...I hope it goes smoothly for you!

[///M5 2,833]

Messing with the interaction of the tweeter and mid might be dangerous since the Z6 crossover is pretty well optimized for what you are doing. Raising or steepening the slope of the high pass on the woofer, however could really raise your power handling and keep bass dynamics from overdriving the bottom end on the Bostons under high spl. You may find it blend better or worse with your sub as you adjust it.

As for the set it and forget it, I must have changed my crossover spots and each channel sensitivity 10 times yesterday. For me even when its dialed in, I like to hear how it is if I change it. After a month or so of doing that I will probably have it in a more stable position.

[dave_Edwards 1]

how come it is that I have never been happy with an "out of the box" comp. set?----DIY is far better---most of the time it is cheaper and YOU can match up tweets to mids easier.

[///M5 2,833]

how come it is that I have never been happy with an "out of the box" comp. set?----DIY is far better---most of the time it is cheaper and YOU can match up tweets to mids easier.

X2

[mrray13 30]

bigpete nailed it...

set it the way teh paper says...great starting point. then tweak and tune till you like it. that's the only way to go...what happens on paper isn't necessarly what's going to happen in car. everything changes once it's installed. a car is not the perfect install......

but as to my situation, if i understood scoot and fred right (fred being our memphis rep) the crossovers on the sq componets don't really filter out any lowend...meaning without the h/u xovers, the mids are recieving full signal all the way down to whatever is in the music....as to the mid/tweet points, memphis has them pretty dead on for my ears...i love the way the tweets and mids blend. i found out just how much i was missing earlier this week while i was running only the mids up front (my tweets were out with the door panels). man, they make a world of difference. the mids are almost midbass, not midrange and the 1" silk tweets drop pretty freaking low...lol...

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee