Left tweeter seems to be dying, sounds weak

[///M5 2,833]

Used or new will work the same.

[Billy Jack 145]

Honestly don't think you have to worry. But didn't you buy these as a set? That could be a problem if you only sent just the tweeter back.  Or have you spoke to them and that's what they told you to do?

[Florida_Audio 55]

2 hours ago, Billy Jack said:

Honestly don't think you have to worry. But didn't you buy these as a set? That could be a problem if you only sent just the tweeter back.  Or have you spoke to them and that's what they told you to do?

i bought the spr 60c set

2 woofers, 2 tweeters, 2 passive crossovers, and some other various items for these

i called them and said just the tweeter is having issues. and i asked to just send in the tweeter.

it would be stupid for myself and the company, if they required me to disassemble everything and send it all in, if its just the tweeter that has issues...

Edited August 3, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[///M5 2,833]

And the set is generic anyways.  Meaning ie the crossover components weren't chosen for your speakers but any of the ones they could ship in that set.  Single driver trade is no problem.  No worse than it was brand new anyways.

[Florida_Audio 55]

14 hours ago, ///M5 said:

And the set is generic anyways.  Meaning ie the crossover components weren't chosen for your speakers but any of the ones they could ship in that set.  Single driver trade is no problem.  No worse than it was brand new anyways.

wow they actually have unique speakers of each set , and the crossovers can be made specifically for that unique speaker within a set?

if i understand what you were saying? like they have a common model number for speakers that are mass produced, but the crossover is always different and only works for the specific speaker, even though many sets of the same speaker exist?

 

Also.... i now have another issue thats become quite annoying... not sure if its a loose door panel clip or what.... but the door panel does seem to be fit in snugly and not moving....

but when i play anything with some bass in it, the right door panel vibrates in a way that it rattles. the left door panel does not have this issue.

all the clips do seem to be snug. i have noticed this issue with the right door panel before, but it wasnt ever really this bad... or i just didnt notice it as much. maybe because recently i am trying to focus much more into the details of each side. and well the right door doesnt have a tweeter right now, because i shipped it off.

the thing is.... the rattle in the door panel is coming directly in front of the midbass woofer.... its not anywhere near the edges of the door panel... when i put just one finger lightly pressed against the holes where the speaker has room to pass sound through the door panel, the vibrations stop completely and it sounds great. i just need to put a bit of a light pressure against the door panel and it sounds fine...

what can i do to stop this rattle? i know it may be several different things and difficult to say what the issue is. but where should i start? what should i check? any ideas? thanks.

i feel as though this may be difficult because i cant really see inside the door pane to see if the speaker may be playing too close to the door panel or whatever the issue is, i cannot actually see inside the panel while its rattling...

[///M5 2,833]

No you misread what I said.  They do not make custom crossovers for every driver.  They should, but they should make the measurements to do so in your car.  Obviously that isn't happening...

As for the buzz, it is time for some closed cell foam.  Put it in between anything that rattles.

If you are going back into your doors though spending some time with some other deadening would be a real good idea

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

No you misread what I said.  They do not make custom crossovers for every driver.  They should, but they should make the measurements to do so in your car.  Obviously that isn't happening...

As for the buzz, it is time for some closed cell foam.  Put it in between anything that rattles.

If you are going back into your doors though spending some time with some other deadening would be a real good idea

ok thanks. what type of closed cell foam? how much just to stop the rattle? would a small amount around the speaker be okay? does the foam have a sticky side to be applied somewhere?

if so, do i stick the foam onto the plastic part of the door panel? or the metal part in which the speaker is mounted?

do you ever put deadening onto the plastic part of the door panel?

its so weird, once again, that only one side has this issue lol.... the fk. everything seems so unsymmetrical, when i would like for things to be more uniform.... and then maybe i can do my own alterations to change and tune to my likings, like time adjustment or balance, and fade, etc...

thanks again!

 

Edited August 4, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[///M5 2,833]

 Depends on what you can find locally.  1/4" or so is fine.  Just want something soft between buzzing points.  For rattles any which way to apply it is fine.  Glue, Velcro, Tape, just need it to be in between what buzzes.

By deadener I meant CLD.  Constrained Layer Damper which turns vibration energy in your panels into heat.  Metal is your target, but if you are flopping plastic it can be a cure but there are plenty of other simple cures for that too.

Go to Sound Deadener Showdown and read some install hints.  Will expedite your learning WAY faster than any forum conversation.

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

 Depends on what you can find locally.  1/4" or so is fine.  Just want something soft between buzzing points.  For rattles any which way to apply it is fine.  Glue, Velcro, Tape, just need it to be in between what buzzes.

By deadener I meant CLD.  Constrained Layer Damper which turns vibration energy in your panels into heat.  Metal is your target, but if you are flopping plastic it can be a cure but there are plenty of other simple cures for that too.

Go to Sound Deadener Showdown and read some install hints.  Will expedite your learning WAY faster than any forum conversation.

also, so im still a bit lost by what you meant, that "And the set is generic anyways.  Meaning ie the crossover components weren't chosen for your speakers but any of the ones they could ship in that set.  "

so you mean all speakers and crossovers in sets can always be swapped and are never specifically made for them?

yea ive been to that site before. ive read alot about their CLD tiles and how you only need a small % covered with those tiles to help reduce vibrations. what other simple cures can work for the plastic?

but i dont think they mentioned if you can install those tiles on the actual door panel plastic part? whats a buzzing point? lol... sorry for so many questions. i feel as though alot of the terms i dont understand exactly what it meant by them

Edited August 4, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[///M5 2,833]

Alpine stuff is all mass produced and "identical".  Quotes due to manufacturing tolerances not making that completely possible.

What I meant by buzz was that there are two spots rubbing/buzzing/making noise.  You need to separate those with something soft.  ie, CCF.

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

Alpine stuff is all mass produced and "identical".  Quotes due to manufacturing tolerances not making that completely possible.

What I meant by buzz was that there are two spots rubbing/buzzing/making noise.  You need to separate those with something soft.  ie, CCF.

ugh i misread sound deadener showdown website

they are saying to put cld tiles on the outer panel, the outside of door.

im saying that the inside of the plastic panel is vibrating, and they dont say anything about cld tiles for this

Edited August 4, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[///M5 2,833]

Thinner works.  1/2" is pretty beefy.

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

Thinner works.  1/2" is pretty beefy.

yea these mats also seem to be meant for some sports use, not meant for inside cars lol?

https://www.amazon.com/Seattle-Sports-Bulk-Foam-Adhesive/dp/B00MC9DNGA/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1470280839&sr=1-1&keywords=closed+cell+foam

but i think its still CCF?

[///M5 2,833]

Any CCF is fine.  Open cell holds water.  What a manufacturer labels it has nothing to do with what problems it will solve

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

Any CCF is fine.  Open cell holds water.  What a manufacturer labels it has nothing to do with what problems it will solve

ok thanks. so ill look for 1/4 inch then i guess?

would i really need to apply this foam to the whole door panel? or just around the vibrating area should be fine? i feel as though i may do a shitty job.... i think velcro stripes might be easiest for me.... so incase i mess up

but also, the door isnt exactly flat.... it curves all over it. so id have to do several tiny pieces all over? and attach the foam to the plastic part of the inside trim panel right? cause thats whats vibrating only near the speaker

Edited August 4, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[///M5 2,833]

It doesn't block sound so with no MLV no reason for full coverage.  Just locally apply it between any two surfaces that rub.  Goal is something soft that won't mold.  What it is doesn't matter so much.  Cheap soft foam usually wins.

[Florida_Audio 55]

1 hour ago, ///M5 said:

It doesn't block sound so with no MLV no reason for full coverage.  Just locally apply it between any two surfaces that rub.  Goal is something soft that won't mold.  What it is doesn't matter so much.  Cheap soft foam usually wins.

ok thanks. not exactly sure what mass loaded vinyl does? but ive heard of it also... so many things that are so confusing to me lol

nor do i understand why MLV would make it so i dont need to cover the whole area.

but ill just take your word and apply the CCF only in the area that requires it. thanks!

unless you want to explain any of this lol

but also.... if only the right door has audible rattles, if i apply CCF to the right door, should i also apply it to the left door in the exact same amount? to even it out?

[///M5 2,833]

CLD - turns vibration into heat, ie it helps reduce panel generated noise

MLV - Mass Loaded Vinyl -> is a mass barrier.  Acoustics can only be stopped by mass.  The more mass the better the barrier.  MLV needs complete coverage otherwise sound will "leak" around it.  It is by far the best mechanism for reducing road noise.  Case and point my E34 M5 had MLV over the whole floor.

CCF - Closed cell foam: stops buzzing/rubbing and is a good mechanism for decoupling the MLV

As for evening things out.  For BSR (buzz, squeak, rattle) there is only a need to treat what makes noise.  That being said if something does it on one side the likely hood of it starting on the other is higher than the odds of you winning the lottery.

[Florida_Audio 55]

4 hours ago, ///M5 said:

CLD - turns vibration into heat, ie it helps reduce panel generated noise

MLV - Mass Loaded Vinyl -> is a mass barrier.  Acoustics can only be stopped by mass.  The more mass the better the barrier.  MLV needs complete coverage otherwise sound will "leak" around it.  It is by far the best mechanism for reducing road noise.  Case and point my E34 M5 had MLV over the whole floor.

CCF - Closed cell foam: stops buzzing/rubbing and is a good mechanism for decoupling the MLV

As for evening things out.  For BSR (buzz, squeak, rattle) there is only a need to treat what makes noise.  That being said if something does it on one side the likely hood of it starting on the other is higher than the odds of you winning the lottery.

wow thanks for great explaination

but just to clarify one last thing, well i hope lol

so CLD tiles, can they be placed on the inside trim, as in the plastic part of door? to add some weight so as to reduce the rattle? or i should just add CCF and no CLD tiles?

cause like i said, when i added a bit of pressure with just one finger, pushing against the plastic door inside, the rattling stopped.

[///M5 2,833]

The answer is in the description of what it does.  Can CLD help on plastic?  Sure, but it is somewhat a waste of product.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

 Installing the foam in between the door panel and door will mimic the same affect your finger has,  only it will  be applying pressure from the backside.  Everything has a resonant frequency,  at which it will vibrate uncontrollably.  By placing your finger or foam at that point in the door panel,  you are in essence creating two separate panels that require more inertia to reach the same loudness of vibration you have now. The door panel still resonates,  just at a different frequency and hopefully lower amplitude. You will never eliminate all the vibration noise, the goal is to lower it below audible levels. In other words don't overthink the sound deadening,  just quiet each rattle as you find it. 

 

That said, my car I'm working on now, I gave the doors the full treatment before even installing the mids.

 

 

[Florida_Audio 55]

4 hours ago, j-roadtatts said:

 Installing the foam in between the door panel and door will mimic the same affect your finger has,  only it will  be applying pressure from the backside.  Everything has a resonant frequency,  at which it will vibrate uncontrollably.  By placing your finger or foam at that point in the door panel,  you are in essence creating two separate panels that require more inertia to reach the same loudness of vibration you have now. The door panel still resonates,  just at a different frequency and hopefully lower amplitude. You will never eliminate all the vibration noise, the goal is to lower it below audible levels. In other words don't overthink the sound deadening,  just quiet each rattle as you find it. 

 

That said, my car I'm working on now, I gave the doors the full treatment before even installing the mids.

 

 

wow thanks for that explanation!

[Florida_Audio 55]

got the replacement tweeter! about to install it.

but it looks quite different than the tweeter i sent in. the tweeter i sent in looks the same as my other tweeter. but this replacement seems different.

im thinking its just a casing around the tweeter thats making it look different.... but because i didnt do my own installation in the first place i am unsure if the shop took the casing apart when installing the tweeter. heres a manual of my speaker and tweeter online. the tweeter image looks like the casing comes off. so i am trying to figure out how to take the casing off without damaging the tweeter?

and ill upload photos of my tweeter i got in the mail. and the tweeter that i shipped back.

the first image is the tweeter i sent back. the second image is the tweeter i got in the mail as the replacement

 

 

Edited August 11, 2016 by Florida_Audio

[jcarter1885 995]

Yes the the tweeter seems to be the same, the new one is encased in a plastic mounting cup. To fit in the install location it seems as they took off the plastic cup to make it fit. 

Only way to really tell if they are the same is to take the back off and compare.

[Florida_Audio 55]

3 hours ago, jcarter1885 said:

Yes the the tweeter seems to be the same, the new one is encased in a plastic mounting cup. To fit in the install location it seems as they took off the plastic cup to make it fit. 

Only way to really tell if they are the same is to take the back off and compare.

derp me.

thanks yea lol.... i should have checked it further but just wanted to ask just in case. im too cautious sometimes. i didnt see any screws so i thought it was just one piece. but i gently tried to unscrew the back part of the tweeter and sure enough it was inside a case. and i think it really is a new tweeter!

so happy i finally got it in. ive been listening to music with no tweeter on right side. not sure if its the new tweeter or just cause ive been used to not having a tweeter. but holy shit am i extremely glad i got the tweeter back. honestly feels like a whole new system after spending around 9 days without the tweeter! since last tuesday morning, till late today, thursday of the next week.

at first when i took out the tweeter i knew it sounded different but i didnt realize how much different it sounded until i reinstalled the tweeter. honestly makes a HUGE difference. a good one :]

so tomorrow i shall check some things like swapping the polarity. checking out time alignment again. honestly time alignment is very difficult for me to notice and change around... but i feel like it could have a great benefit.

and ill look around for some what to get just a bit of CCF like was suggested. i want something cheap but im sure quality and price are related even with CCF. and i think ill need some velcro to attach it

thanks again to all who have helped me !