Please help me understand t/s parameters and making a good choice

[SS Teacher 177]

For starters I've spent dozens of hours but it's just beyond my feeble abilities.

Current set-up:  Jeep Wrangler (possibly the worst platform for good sounding mobile audio), Rosen HU (it has front, rear, and sub RCA outputs), Zed Mikro IV pushing JBL power series 6 1/2" components in factory locations up front and bridged rear to power a Kenwood 10 in a sealed box.  The HU powers Bravox 5 1/4" components in the role bar.

Those JBLs scream and I need them to, I frequently drive with the doors off and top down.  Yes, I know they're harsh, but they fit my budget and the performance matches the compromises I'm willing to make.  The problem is the output of the 10" can not keep up with the front stage.  i acquired a Rockford Fosgate T-500 db on Offer Up for $120 and I'm so terribly indecisive about which subwoofer/enclosure combo will "keep up with" the output of the front stage.

My first thought was a pair of DCON 10's in a ported box, but they are unavailable in the SSA store.  I looked at Soundqued HDS210 but they have low xmax and low sensitivity., can they possibly get loud?   A pair of tens are the better choice due to box height constraints, but I could get a 12" as long as the box height is under 13".  But that's the other concern...a GOOD enclosure.  I'm willing to spend $200, but don't trust any of the local shops or know of any good ones in the Tampa, Fl area.  Khaotic enclosures look amazing, but their dimensions aren't optimal for my cargo area and often they're not a good match air space wise with many SSA subs (which would be my first choice).

[jcarter1885 995]

Cant comment on subs but try to get in contact with Robin Butler at BHE, if I remember he is in the Tampa area and does badass work. 

[SS Teacher 177]

17 minutes ago, jcarter1885 said:

Cant comment on subs but try to get in contact with Robin Butler at BHE, if I remember he is in the Tampa area and does badass work. 

Thanks, I see he's a member.  I'll shoot him a PM about where he's located.

[garychurch84 127]

A good ported box for your Kenwood would help

[SS Teacher 177]

1 hour ago, garychurch84 said:

A good ported box for your Kenwood would help

Its in the prefab box, eXcelon Series KFC-XW1000F Subwoofer, and only handles 250 watts rms.  I doubt it would perform well in a ported enclosure, but thatnks for the advice.  A good box is just as important than the driver. 

[frogcase2002 393]

Somone is selling a dcon 12 for a good price on caraudio.com.. really good condition

[garychurch84 127]

20 hours ago, SS Teacher said:

Its in the prefab box, eXcelon Series KFC-XW1000F Subwoofer, and only handles 250 watts rms.  I doubt it would perform well in a ported enclosure, but thatnks for the advice.  A good box is just as important than the driver. 

We didn't know what you had other than (KENWOOD 10) up until this post.

Half ass info gets a half ass responce

Look into the dcon mentioned

[Liro213 36]

what are your max dimensions?

do you always ride your jeep that way? I would suggest a Gcon in sealed box but also don't know your music preference  or your budget for new sub/s

Edited March 17, 2016 by Liro213
Forgot something.

[frogcase2002 393]

2 hours ago, garychurch84 said:

We didn't know what you had other than (KENWOOD 10) up until this post.

Half ass info gets a half ass responce

Look into the dcon mentioned

Says In the first post a keenwood 10 In a sealed enclosure

[garychurch84 127]

8 minutes ago, frogcase2002 said:

Says In the first post a keenwood 10 In a sealed enclosure

Lol

That narrowed it down didn't it

I got an ssa 15,recommend me a box...you can't,don't know which model

Edited March 17, 2016 by garychurch84

[frogcase2002 393]

He wasnt asking to get another enclosure for the sub he had though

[garychurch84 127]

42 minutes ago, frogcase2002 said:

IHe wasnt asking to get another enclosure for the sub he had though

I know 

I said a ported would help

Then he decides to tell which model it was etc. Which you lost the conversation and now we're here...lol

Its all good...lol

[altoncustomtech 773]

On March 16, 2016 at 0:52 PM, SS Teacher said:

Its in the prefab box, eXcelon Series KFC-XW1000F Subwoofer, and only handles 250 watts rms.  I doubt it would perform well in a ported enclosure, but thatnks for the advice.  A good box is just as important than the driver. 

No, actually the enclosure is definitely far more important than the driver being used. It's possible for a great driver in a piss poor designed/built enclosure to be out performed by a sub-par driver in an excellently designed and constructed enclosure. 

 

Even though it's a generic sub it could still perform better in a ported enclosure. Being what it is there's probably not any T/S parameters available for it to model and find out. 

 

For a better understanding of what the specs mean and what to look for when choosing a driver for a particular application I highly suggest buying and reading "The Loudspeaker Cookbook" by Vance Dickason. 

 

For what it's worth I wish you could've gotten the DCON's. They're some of my favorite subs, I even have a pair them waiting for my slow ass to get the enclosure built so I can get them installed. 

[SS Teacher 177]

Thanks for all the replies, I've searched a little more and found Audiophile Engineers in Tampa.  They really seem to know what they're doing and know Robin Butler who was recommended here (again, thanks!).  I'm going to their shop next week and pick their brain.  I know (is it Mark?) is super busy and that's the holdup on the DCON 10"s, I might just wait a few weeks and see if they're back up to production and have AE build a good box. 

I've spent a little time on the 12volt and bcae1.com to learn a little more, I might just get "The Loudspeaker Cookbook" this summer.

As far as max dimensions the biggest constraint is height, no more than 14" tall which makes a 12" driver a tad more challenging.

[garychurch84 127]

11 hours ago, SS Teacher said:

Thanks for all the replies, I've searched a little more and found Audiophile Engineers in Tampa.  They really seem to know what they're doing and know Robin Butler who was recommended here (again, thanks!).  I'm going to their shop next week and pick their brain.  I know (is it Mark?) is super busy and that's the holdup on the DCON 10"s, I might just wait a few weeks and see if they're back up to production and have AE build a good box. 

I've spent a little time on the 12volt and bcae1.com to learn a little more, I might just get "The Loudspeaker Cookbook" this summer.

As far as max dimensions the biggest constraint is height, no more than 14" tall which makes a 12" driver a tad more challenging.

What do you have depth and width? Knowing the max space your willing to use will help a lot on driver selection,other than just height.

[jcarter1885 995]

12 hours ago, SS Teacher said:

Thanks for all the replies, I've searched a little more and found Audiophile Engineers in Tampa.  They really seem to know what they're doing and know Robin Butler who was recommended here (again, thanks!).  I'm going to their shop next week and pick their brain.  I know (is it Mark?) is super busy and that's the holdup on the DCON 10"s, I might just wait a few weeks and see if they're back up to production and have AE build a good box. 

I've spent a little time on the 12volt and bcae1.com to learn a little more, I might just get "The Loudspeaker Cookbook" this summer.

As far as max dimensions the biggest constraint is height, no more than 14" tall which makes a 12" driver a tad more challenging.

Man i forgot all about that dude , he does great work at AE too. Sucks FloridaSPL forum isnt what it used to be.

[Liro213 36]

On March 17, 2016 at 3:04 PM, garychurch84 said:

7 hours ago, garychurch84 said:

What do you have depth and width? Knowing the max space your willing to use will help a lot on driver selection,other than just height.

 

That's what I'm saying 

[SS Teacher 177]

I'm very flexible on width and length, just as long as i have some room to stow kayak paddles, camping gear, or recovery gear.  I'm still torn, I might get an 12" XCON and get a bigger amp down the road if I want more volume.  I'm getting excited about going to AE tomorrow (Monday), I've been very excited to see some of their stuff on FaceBook. 

[jcarter1885 995]

Saying your flexible with your dimensions does not help at all. Go measure with a tape measure and give us maximum dimesions and preferred dimensions to get better responses.

Edited March 20, 2016 by jcarter1885
S

[SS Teacher 177]

Max dimensions I'm willing to consider is 36 deep, 20 wide, and 15 high which (according to BCAE1) gives me a hair under 5 cubic feet using .75" wood which should be plenty for a bottom firing 15".  What I'm not making clear is..

Is there a way to determine which speaker is louder by using T/S parameters, most notably XMax and Sensitivity.  For example, is an XCON louder than an ICON or GCON on the same 500 watts if I have the box designed, modeled, and built by a reputable shop using good software (i.e. Audiophile Engineers in Tamps). 

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

As to which of the three will be louder, that will depend the most upon the enclosure.  The Gcon is the most efficient as it has the least amount of moving mass, so all things equal, it could be the loudest right out of the box.  But by nature, the Xcon is the loudest of the 3.  We offer a design service on the SSA Store.  It will give a cut sheet and 3D model.

[SS Teacher 177]

On March 21, 2016 at 8:28 PM, denim said:

As to which of the three will be louder, that will depend the most upon the enclosure.  The Gcon is the most efficient as it has the least amount of moving mass, so all things equal, it could be the loudest right out of the box.  But by nature, the Xcon is the loudest of the 3.  We offer a design service on the SSA Store.  It will give a cut sheet and 3D model.

Alright, I'm sold! (litteraly)  I'm going with the XCON.  I'll power it with the Rockford Fosgate T-500 db, if I want more volume later I can just replace that with a T-1500.

I'm going to order a box design and get my buddy to help me make it out of 1" birch.  We'll spend some time on BCAE1.com, they have great box building tips. Now for the question...

Can SSA design a bandpass enclosure that yields a flat frequency response from about 35 to 85 HZ.  I know prefab bandpass boxes are total crap, but if I can get a good response curve and output I would love to make the box and cover it in bedliner and never have to worry about it.  If the XCON does not play well in a bandpass, I'll get the ported and good speaker grills.

[///M5 2,833]

Bandpass boxes unless mounted remotely are a stupid fad.  99.9% of the time they are misused.  Unless you have a logical reason to need one a ported box will be better In every way

[///M5 2,833]

The xcon is a beast btw.  Love mine

[SS Teacher 177]

38 minutes ago, ///M5 said:

Bandpass boxes unless mounted remotely are a stupid fad.  99.9% of the time they are misused.  Unless you have a logical reason to need one a ported box will be better In every way

It's in the back of a Jeep Wrangler, a bandpass covered in bedliner would be virtually weatherproof.  I didn't have terribly high hopes, looks like I'm going with the 12" XCON in a ported box!