How Much Do You Throw At Your XCONs? (Daily)

[///M5 2,833]

I hope that was a joke

[Lee Carter 150]

After running my xcon 18d2 on a Soundqubed 1200 at 1 ohm,  compared to running my first xcon 18d1 on a Skar 1500 at .5 ohms.  I can say that the difference wasn't huge. 

 

I would run both 2500's at 2 ohms like you said....IF you already have the 2nd amp.  if not- one 2500 at 1ohm will drive both subs just fine.

[jcarter1885 995]

I hope that was a joke

Unfortunately no it wasnt. Reread post #7, eight mids and eight tweeters.

Edited March 10, 2015 by jay-cee

[ohio45113 24]

I run a single 12 d2 zcon @ 1 ohm on a bc3500. Takes it like a champ. I agree that you don't need to do 2 amps. It's a waste of money and the output won't be what you think it is. If anything just buy a bigger amp or try and sort out your front stage

[Tyrell Wilson 1]

You could run a smaller box and more power if you were dead set on it. You likely won't see much gain in output and you will be stressing your equipment in the process. This game is full of trade-offs, just need to figure out where your priorities lie.

 

Thanks for the feedback.  As I mentioned, I am no "bass guru" or anything like that.  I come from a long line of daily setups that consisted of prefab boxes and kicker/mtx subs.  This is my 1st "big boy" build so I am just trying to do it right.  I will list below all of the stuff I have already ordered/received to give you guys a better idea of what I am working with and maybe you can better advise.  I hope I did not waste a lot of money on my setup that was unnecessary.  Unfortunately, I already purchased the 2nd 2500d recently.  The good thing is that I got a deal on the 1st one for only $120 (local) in mint condition and the 2nd one was only $325 (shipped) via ebay. So all in all, $445 for 5000 wrms on tap does not seem to be to bad of a deal to me.

 

Here is a list of everything I have picked up thus far...

 

1x Singer Alternator - 240A - 160A idle (260A peak) 1x Kinetic HC1200 - 40AH - 1200W 2x Kinetic HC3800 - 135AH - 3800W 2x Kolossus Fleks 0 Gauge Dual Amp Power Kit 1x 50' - Kord Ultra Flex 12 Gauge Speaker Wire 1x 50' - Kord Ultra Flex 14 Gauge Speaker Wire 4x KonFUSED 2 Way Fuse Distribution Block 1x Voltage Meter   10x Sky High Audio 1/0 Copper Lugs 1x KnuKoncetpz - Ultimate Negative Battery Terminal 1x KnuKoncetpz - Ultimate Positive Battery Terminal 8" Aeroport (trying to find flares) 6x 10' rca cables 6x 4" PC fans 2x SSA XCON D1 12" - 1750 Watts RMS each 8x Dayton Audio ND140-8 5-1/4" 8x Vifa NE25VTS-04 1" Silk Dome Tweeter 2x Orion 2500d - 2500 WRMS @ 1 ohm 2x Orion 4002 - 200 WRMS x 2 @ 2 ohm 1x PAC LC-1 Remote Amplifier Level Controller 2x 12V 5M IP65 Waterproof 300 LED Strip Light 5050 SMD 1x Clear Acrylic Plexiglass Sheet 3/4" x 23.875" x 11.875" 2xClear Acrylic Plexiglass Sheet (4002) 2x Clear Acrylic Plexiglass Sheet (2500) 1x Q Logic Honda Accord 5 1/4" Custom Speaker Kick Panel 1x Metra 95-7862 Double Din Dash Kit 1x Pioneer AVH-X4700BS

 

 

Let me know if you all have any other questions or recommendations.

[Tyrell Wilson 1]

bahhh, sorry it came out like that...it showed a list when i copied it over.

[Tyrell Wilson 1]

 

Well, I originally had just 1 2500d but the person whom is helping me with the install said that I should get another.  He informed me that is better to have more power on tap than is needed and typically better to have double the power that is needed for the subs in any particular amp so that the amp does not have to work as hard.

That person is an idiot, stop listening to him.

I personally would not mind if I could just push 1700 rms to each sub...I don't necessarily care about it being that loud (i just like nice hard hitting bass) but also like SQ as well.

So you like loud and peaky and something that is much less loud and flat response at the same time. Or perhaps you just don't understand either of the opposites.

Could i potentially make the box smaller if I ran both amps?  The box will be in the trunk and forward facing (i would prefer to make it smaller if possible to keep room for a spare tire)

You can but it makes no sense and won't help you at all. Back to liking the FR thing....obviously you don't.

He knows what he is doing and no it is not made up.  He does multiple "high profile" builds all of the time and has been doing this stuff for years and competes regularly.  I am just looking to get a 2nd opinion on my particular setup.

He has A LOT to learn.

Seriously, just run one amp. You never once referenced a meter in your posts so chasing less than audible sound differences is pointless. You have to double the power to hear a difference. Running a second amp won't do that for you as between reaching the thermal & mechanical limits of the driver and power compression will stop that cold in its tracks. The 2nd amp is a waste of money, don't buy it, don't use it and don't invest in the necessary electrical to add it as what you propose is literally akin to flushing money down the toilet. I would also be vary wary of any other advice said friend is giving you as obviously he is a complete noob and infatuated with all of the wrong aspects of audio. Headroom is important, but this is a sub that is going to play the very smallest of regions in the audio spectrum where your ear is super inefficient at hearing distortion or anomalies. Terrible place to spend extra money for no reason.

Put that budget you were about to waste to good use and spend it ALL on your front stage. It will make a monstrous difference.

 

 

Thanks for the feedback.  That is why I am here asking questions  I am tired of pumping out money.  I've already spent close to $4k on equipment and my whole initial budget for the system upgrade was $2500 and we have not even began to start the build yet...

[Tyrell Wilson 1]

 

Well, I originally had just 1 2500d but the person whom is helping me with the install said that I should get another.  He informed me that is better to have more power on tap than is needed and typically better to have double the power that is needed for the subs in any particular amp so that the amp does not have to work as hard.

That person is an idiot, stop listening to him.

I personally would not mind if I could just push 1700 rms to each sub...I don't necessarily care about it being that loud (i just like nice hard hitting bass) but also like SQ as well.

So you like loud and peaky and something that is much less loud and flat response at the same time. Or perhaps you just don't understand either of the opposites.

Could i potentially make the box smaller if I ran both amps?  The box will be in the trunk and forward facing (i would prefer to make it smaller if possible to keep room for a spare tire)

You can but it makes no sense and won't help you at all. Back to liking the FR thing....obviously you don't.

He knows what he is doing and no it is not made up.  He does multiple "high profile" builds all of the time and has been doing this stuff for years and competes regularly.  I am just looking to get a 2nd opinion on my particular setup.

He has A LOT to learn.

Seriously, just run one amp. You never once referenced a meter in your posts so chasing less than audible sound differences is pointless. You have to double the power to hear a difference. Running a second amp won't do that for you as between reaching the thermal & mechanical limits of the driver and power compression will stop that cold in its tracks. The 2nd amp is a waste of money, don't buy it, don't use it and don't invest in the necessary electrical to add it as what you propose is literally akin to flushing money down the toilet. I would also be vary wary of any other advice said friend is giving you as obviously he is a complete noob and infatuated with all of the wrong aspects of audio. Headroom is important, but this is a sub that is going to play the very smallest of regions in the audio spectrum where your ear is super inefficient at hearing distortion or anomalies. Terrible place to spend extra money for no reason.

Put that budget you were about to waste to good use and spend it ALL on your front stage. It will make a monstrous difference.

 

You still think I should just run the 1 amp even though I already have the 2nd with the electrical to back it up?

[Tyrell Wilson 1]

He already has 16 speakers for his mids and highs so the front stage is already taken care of.

 

I hope that's not a bad thing :x

[Tyrell Wilson 1]

After running my xcon 18d2 on a Soundqubed 1200 at 1 ohm,  compared to running my first xcon 18d1 on a Skar 1500 at .5 ohms.  I can say that the difference wasn't huge. 

 

I would run both 2500's at 2 ohms like you said....IF you already have the 2nd amp.  if not- one 2500 at 1ohm will drive both subs just fine.

 

Thanks Leedogg, I think that's what I will do considering I already purchased the 2nd 2500d and it should put less stress on both amps.

[///M5 2,833]

Sell one. Seriously pointless.

Your "front stage" is a fuck show. Complete mess. Had to use quotes as it surely won't stage. Won't sound good either.

Better to ask before you buy. Start determining what you can return and stop listening to the moron that is "helping" you

[Stephen93s10 40]

Well, I originally had just 1 2500d but the person whom is helping me with the install said that I should get another. He informed me that is better to have more power on tap than is needed and typically better to have double the power that is needed for the subs in any particular amp so that the amp does not have to work as hard.

That person is an idiot, stop listening to him.

I personally would not mind if I could just push 1700 rms to each sub...I don't necessarily care about it being that loud (i just like nice hard hitting bass) but also like SQ as well.

So you like loud and peaky and something that is much less loud and flat response at the same time. Or perhaps you just don't understand either of the opposites.

Could i potentially make the box smaller if I ran both amps? The box will be in the trunk and forward facing (i would prefer to make it smaller if possible to keep room for a spare tire)

You can but it makes no sense and won't help you at all. Back to liking the FR thing....obviously you don't.

He knows what he is doing and no it is not made up. He does multiple "high profile" builds all of the time and has been doing this stuff for years and competes regularly. I am just looking to get a 2nd opinion on my particular setup.

He has A LOT to learn.

Seriously, just run one amp. You never once referenced a meter in your posts so chasing less than audible sound differences is pointless. You have to double the power to hear a difference. Running a second amp won't do that for you as between reaching the thermal & mechanical limits of the driver and power compression will stop that cold in its tracks. The 2nd amp is a waste of money, don't buy it, don't use it and don't invest in the necessary electrical to add it as what you propose is literally akin to flushing money down the toilet. I would also be vary wary of any other advice said friend is giving you as obviously he is a complete noob and infatuated with all of the wrong aspects of audio. Headroom is important, but this is a sub that is going to play the very smallest of regions in the audio spectrum where your ear is super inefficient at hearing distortion or anomalies. Terrible place to spend extra money for no reason.

Put that budget you were about to waste to good use and spend it ALL on your front stage. It will make a monstrous difference.

You still think I should just run the 1 amp even though I already have the 2nd with the electrical to back it up?

Just run one amp, the difference in output of running both wont make a major difference,but would risk you blowing the subs,you could always sell one amp and invest in better quality mids & tweeters... you shouldnt need 8 mids and 8 tweeters. Edited March 11, 2015 by Stephen93s10

[Stephen93s10 40]

.

Edited March 11, 2015 by Stephen93s10

[///M5 2,833]

you shouldnt need 8 mids and 8 tweeters.

Makes zero sense in fact. Can easily pick 2 tweeters that would over power 8 mids...but if you need 8 mids you picked the wrong mids. Absolute thunder fuck of an idea.

[Stephen93s10 40]

you shouldnt need 8 mids and 8 tweeters.

Makes zero sense in fact. Can easily pick 2 tweeters that would over power 8 mids...but if you need 8 mids you picked the wrong mids. Absolute thunder fuck of an idea.

Exactly my thoughts, as long as there properly installed, should be a lot better

[Thumpper 266]

you do not need that much on the front stage

 

my last system had 2 sets of 6.5" components on the front stage and it went above and beyond 

what my ears could handle and stayed ahead of the four 15" Xcons very well

 

LIsten to M5............... what you got planned is a shit show , the staging will suck

 

as far as daily power use on the Xcon....

I would stay stay with in the rated RMS for reliability and  warranty purposes

[Notorious97200 339]

That friend is not helping you at all !

too much speakers, too much...everything !

Listen to those guys here, please.

You'll save money, AND sound good.

[95Honda 486]

Ugghhh...

 

#1, there is no such thing as "box rise".  There is impedance, it both rises and falls, both above and below the actual driver impedance.

 

#2, not a single person can actually tell you how much power they are actually applying to their drivers unless them have swept impedance curve and measured the output voltage of the amp over your entire operating range.  Period.

 

#3, you have no idea how much power it will take to attain full output of your driver(s) unless you model them in the EXACT enclosure they are ACTUALLY in...

[Tyrell Wilson 1]

Sell one. Seriously pointless.

Your "front stage" is a fuck show. Complete mess. Had to use quotes as it surely won't stage. Won't sound good either.

Better to ask before you buy. Start determining what you can return and stop listening to the moron that is "helping" you

 

Don't just say something if you don't plan on backing it up with some logical reasoning.  I am not saying you are incorrect, but I do want to know why you think it will sound bad?  Just saying your setup sucks is not helping the situation or providing any means of actually helping.  I will be running both 2500d amps at 2 ohms like i previously said I was going to because I already purchased both amps.  I think you all need to understand that this is a "show car," this is not a car i drive often (maybe 2k miles a year).  Not only do I want it to sound good but it MUST look good.  

 

Many of you keep referring to staging and such, yet I do not really care about staging at all.  this car only needs to be LOUD & CLEAR (No distortion and or vibrations).  With the type of music i listen to staging is not really all that important anyway.  I am looking more so for loud and just fill. There will be 8 tweets, 8 5 1/4s, 4 8s and the 2 12s.  I'm not sure how you think it will sound like a shit show when it is all being professionally tuned with a good sound processor.  also you can't really call it a front stage when most of the speakers will be in the rear in a soundbar like enclosure.

 

Any other input?

[Tyrell Wilson 1]

This is the car that inspired me for my setup.  He has multiple speakers and just 1 15" in the trunk and can hit 150s off of his trunk setup with a nicely constructed box.

 

This car sounds ABSOLUTELY AMAZING in person...best sounding car I have ever heard.  I am shooting for something like this...

 

http://www.*****.com/board/topic/158900-06-altima-6k-trunk-build-fi-15-team-sub-hair-trick-vids/page-13

[Fi 4 life 0]

What dsp are you referring to?

[Fi 4 life 0]

Sorry double post...

Edited March 31, 2015 by Fi 4 life

[Tyrell Wilson 1]

I was going with the Rockford Fostgate 3Sixty.3

[///M5 2,833]

Sell one. Seriously pointless.

Your "front stage" is a fuck show. Complete mess. Had to use quotes as it surely won't stage. Won't sound good either.

Better to ask before you buy. Start determining what you can return and stop listening to the moron that is "helping" you

Don't just say something if you don't plan on backing it up with some logical reasoning. I am not saying you are incorrect, but I do want to know why you think it will sound bad? Just saying your setup sucks is not helping the situation or providing any means of actually helping. I will be running both 2500d amps at 2 ohms like i previously said I was going to because I already purchased both amps. I think you all need to understand that this is a "show car," this is not a car i drive often (maybe 2k miles a year). Not only do I want it to sound good but it MUST look good.

Many of you keep referring to staging and such, yet I do not really care about staging at all. this car only needs to be LOUD & CLEAR (No distortion and or vibrations). With the type of music i listen to staging is not really all that important anyway. I am looking more so for loud and just fill. There will be 8 tweets, 8 5 1/4s, 4 8s and the 2 12s. I'm not sure how you think it will sound like a shit show when it is all being professionally tuned with a good sound processor. also you can't really call it a front stage when most of the speakers will be in the rear in a soundbar like enclosure.

Any other input?

Audio 101 eludes you.

Using any two drivers to play one frequency will create interference. Both constructive and destructive. This will cause a mess not only in the staging which you don’t care about but the frequency response.

The sensitivity mismatch in your choices is idiotic. If you don’t understand that then you have no business in installing anything in your car.

Your driver size choices are completely confusing as well. A 3 way has one major purpose. That is to get as much of the audible spectrum into a single driver as possible. You made this 8 and then picked a size of driver that will beam like hell and generally sucks donkey dick as a midrange.

I didn’t add detail before because seriously you have one of the worst laid out “front stage” ideas I’ve ever seen anyone bring to a forum. No surprise that you find inspiration on SMD where the average forum goer doesn’t know his head from his ass and the whole forum is corrupted due to an owner that is keen to make money of noobs instead of educating them. Fundamentally there is only misinformation there not real information. Your LOUD & CLEAR will be loud but will be FAR from clear.

Anyways, I only picked a few items on why it is bad there are a ton more. If you did what I requested though we could actually help instead of telling why what won’t work focus on what could.

Your processor choice isn’t so good for this either.

[Tyrell Wilson 1]

 

 

Sell one. Seriously pointless.

Your "front stage" is a fuck show. Complete mess. Had to use quotes as it surely won't stage. Won't sound good either.

Better to ask before you buy. Start determining what you can return and stop listening to the moron that is "helping" you

Don't just say something if you don't plan on backing it up with some logical reasoning. I am not saying you are incorrect, but I do want to know why you think it will sound bad? Just saying your setup sucks is not helping the situation or providing any means of actually helping. I will be running both 2500d amps at 2 ohms like i previously said I was going to because I already purchased both amps. I think you all need to understand that this is a "show car," this is not a car i drive often (maybe 2k miles a year). Not only do I want it to sound good but it MUST look good.

Many of you keep referring to staging and such, yet I do not really care about staging at all. this car only needs to be LOUD & CLEAR (No distortion and or vibrations). With the type of music i listen to staging is not really all that important anyway. I am looking more so for loud and just fill. There will be 8 tweets, 8 5 1/4s, 4 8s and the 2 12s. I'm not sure how you think it will sound like a shit show when it is all being professionally tuned with a good sound processor. also you can't really call it a front stage when most of the speakers will be in the rear in a soundbar like enclosure.

Any other input?

 

Audio 101 eludes you.

Using any two drivers to play one frequency will create interference. Both constructive and destructive. This will cause a mess not only in the staging which you don’t care about but the frequency response.

The sensitivity mismatch in your choices is idiotic. If you don’t understand that then you have no business in installing anything in your car.

Your driver size choices are completely confusing as well. A 3 way has one major purpose. That is to get as much of the audible spectrum into a single driver as possible. You made this 8 and then picked a size of driver that will beam like hell and generally sucks donkey dick as a midrange.

I didn’t add detail before because seriously you have one of the worst laid out “front stage” ideas I’ve ever seen anyone bring to a forum. No surprise that you find inspiration on SMD where the average forum goer doesn’t know his head from his ass and the whole forum is corrupted due to an owner that is keen to make money of noobs instead of educating them. Fundamentally there is only misinformation there not real information. Your LOUD & CLEAR will be loud but will be FAR from clear.

Anyways, I only picked a few items on why it is bad there are a ton more. If you did what I requested though we could actually help instead of telling why what won’t work focus on what could.

Your processor choice isn’t so good for this either.

 

 

Each speaker will be playing different frequencies...there is no overlapping...?  What is wrong with the processor choice?  Any other recommendations?