Super high output SQ oriented front stage

[SpeakerBoy 64]

I'm trying to come up with an idea for front stage that can keep up with four eighteens and sound clean and crystal clear doing so. Imaging as accurate as possible.

I've heard many times that multi speaker setups throw staging out the window, for example, six eights in your door.

I'm ideally picking up a tahoe, as opposed to another blazer like I originally planned, and while I'm waiting I'm drawing up plans for the next build. Once things settle down and the truck is paid off I'm thinking of reconing the btl to a 12 for a smaller project and getting either an SHD 24 or two Tridents.

I wasnt happy with the front stage in the blazer, my alpine comps were easily drowned by the BTL.

I've only seen one person do a three way with a single speaker per frequency range, a fifteen a ten and a super tweeter, which made me wonder, if I were to do something similar, a twelve or a fifteen for midbass, an eight for midrange and horns under the dash, would I have any chance to have a nice stage, or image or am I simply keeping up with the bass at that point?

Edited February 16, 2015 by SpeakerBoy

[jcarter1885 995]

Post seems confusing, went from four 18"s to a 12" to a 24 ". What are you exactly needing your front stage to blend with?

Ideally a pair of under dash horns and large midbass driver usually would work with multiple subs or high powered sub setups.

[SpeakerBoy 64]

I intend to end up with a pair of SHD's OR four tridents. I'm not going to go all out to begin with.

I currently have a btl18 which will leave the truck for other stuff once I decide SHD or Tridents. Sorry for the confusion.

I only want to build my front stage once.

[antoinez28 62]

Tuned in...im looking for the same thing for my four 18"ethos...I do plan on getting horns under the dash but dont no about sizes to put in doors yet so im doing 1 10 and going from there cant wait to see what people say about your front stage...tuned in

[SpeakerBoy 64]

I ultimately want a high output build capable of hairtricks but still participate in an SQ comp. Maybe not first place, but you get the idea

[nadcicle 77]

Whatever midbass/midrange you decide upon in your doors be prepared to really build your doors more solid. My 10's are beating the ever lastly piss out of my doors. I won't say that going to a 12 or 15 won't net you a louder response, but it will be much easier to build to a 10 and a single 10 can and will image great with a horn loaded drivers. Just look for a mid that stays relatively flat down to the 100hz range. You will not be playing anything SQ if you are to be playing 4 18's anywhere near their "potential" playing level though.lol

[SpeakerBoy 64]

Whatever midbass/midrange you decide upon in your doors be prepared to really build your doors more solid. My 10's are beating the ever lastly piss out of my doors. I won't say that going to a 12 or 15 won't net you a louder response, but it will be much easier to build to a 10 and a single 10 can and will image great with a horn loaded drivers. Just look for a mid that stays relatively flat down to the 100hz range. You will not be playing anything SQ if you are to be playing 4 18's anywhere near their "potential" playing level though.lol

Would a three way allow me to get louder while still sounding clean? I have always assumed that's the benefit of having a driver per frequency range as opposed to two drivers or a singer driver.

I want SQ at lower levels, but clean clear vocals and tight midbass at high levels.

I am thinking a pair of PPI 900.4s to power the front stage.

Edited February 17, 2015 by SpeakerBoy

[jcarter1885 995]

SQ at lower volume is subjective, just say you want it to sound good at any level but have the output needed when I want to crank the knob. Install, mounting locations, processing will play more of a role in getting the desired sound at any level.

A three way with horns would be pointless, doubt their is a tweet sensitive enough to use on the top end. Or a mid that wouldnt just mess things up running between the horn and midbass.

[SpeakerBoy 64]

SQ at lower volume is subjective, just say you want it to sound good at any level but have the output needed when I want to crank the knob. Install, mounting locations, processing will play more of a role in getting the desired sound at any level.

A three way with horns would be pointless, doubt their is a tweet sensitive enough to use on the top end. Or a mid that wouldnt just mess things up running between the horn and midbass.

Can you explain a little more on why horns in a three way is no good? I was under the impression that the waveguide helped to reduce the amount of power needed to reach the desired listening level. Well, and it affects frequency response

[lithium 358]

 

Whatever midbass/midrange you decide upon in your doors be prepared to really build your doors more solid. My 10's are beating the ever lastly piss out of my doors. I won't say that going to a 12 or 15 won't net you a louder response, but it will be much easier to build to a 10 and a single 10 can and will image great with a horn loaded drivers. Just look for a mid that stays relatively flat down to the 100hz range. You will not be playing anything SQ if you are to be playing 4 18's anywhere near their "potential" playing level though.lol

Would a three way allow me to get louder while still sounding clean? I have always assumed that's the benefit of having a driver per frequency range as opposed to two drivers or a singer driver.

I want SQ at lower levels, but clean clear vocals and tight midbass at high levels.

I am thinking a pair of PPI 900.4s to power the front stage.

 

you dont need that much power on horns unless you plan to cause deafness. 

 

I dont think you're ready for a 3 way front stage, 2 way will be hard enough. maybe something along the lines of ported 8s or 10s in the doors and full body horns. maybe you can get 8s on axis enough to meet up with a full body horn. i've also seen the midbass driver in the kickpanel on axis. 

[SpeakerBoy 64]

Im all for keeping it simple. Less equipment to buy means more in the wallet lol.

Would a ported eight on axis be able to produce punchy midbass and clean midrange against 5kw?

Three ways are a little daunting, I admit that lol.

I've been looking at a lot of Morel stuff lately, but I've never heard any of their stuff. I haven't seen anything more than Alpine, Pioneer, etc locally.

Is it asking a bit much to get tens in the kicks of a tahoe?

Edited February 17, 2015 by SpeakerBoy

[antoinez28 62]

10s in the kick will not work to much is going on sown there on the driver side...but that what I think...horn under the dash and a 10 or 2 10s should work im going to parts express and getting the B&C 10s...was going to get some other tens called 18sounds but my pockets not that deep yet

[antoinez28 62]

....

Edited February 17, 2015 by antoinez28

[Randal Johnson 544]

One of the big reasons you do not see alot of "big bass ground pounding" style systems competing Sound quality is rattles. Big bass creates rattles that you have to constantly take apart and fix before judging. It can get VERY hectic. Also, when over in the SQ area, you are not alowed to jack up your system while other vehicles are being judged. This is one reason why they making plans to go with separate events for SQ and SPL. Some places are spread doing this for noise ordinances and permits.

Beat of luck with your build Sir. Looks like you've come a long way with your audio knowledge since I've been gone !!!

Edited February 17, 2015 by Randal Johnson

[///M5 2,833]

The whole "keep up" is a frickin joke, right?

The hardest part of keeping up is ALWAYS the midbass. Let's just pick a target of 150dB and I'll give you an exercise of enlightment. Grab a Peerless SLS 8" in WinISD. Put it in a HUGE enclosure (to simulate IB, since you will use lots of them just put in 100x VAS to make sure). Then apply enough power to have it hit Xmax at 80Hz. Now figure out how many drivers per side and how much power it will take to hit a 150dB. If your overall SPL target is higher then of course use that.

Now you'll see the futility. At this point now it comes down to what compromise you want to make. Also realize if you build this front stage and then use its capability expect to have significant hearing damage the first year you own the truck.

Once you do that you'll know how to ask a question in a thread that will lead to some useful answers for you.

[jcarter1885 995]

Im all for keeping it simple. Less equipment to buy means more in the wallet lol.

Would a ported eight on axis be able to produce punchy midbass and clean midrange against 5kw?

Three ways are a little daunting, I admit that lol.

I've been looking at a lot of Morel stuff lately, but I've never heard any of their stuff. I haven't seen anything more than Alpine, Pioneer, etc locally.

Is it asking a bit much to get tens in the kicks of a tahoe?

Dude no mid is gonna produce punchy midbass to keep up with 5k watts of bass, you think an 8" or 10" mid is going to keep up with four 18"s or a pair of 24" subs. C'mon man, just like your current 6.5s dont with an 18" subwoofer.

As for now all this is speculation anyway, since you dont have the car or equipment. If you do go the horns route a ppi p900.4 bridged on the mids would work and a small 2 channel for horns would suffice, ppi p600.2 if you want matching gear.

Edited February 17, 2015 by jay-cee

[Jasonc13 33]

By no means would my setup be considered SQ, but Imo it is crisp, clear and very loud.  A bridged ppi900.4 on punch pro 10s in the doors have much more output than my eardrums need.  With my current component list, I feel my 10" mids are the strongest part of my system.  They still need to be glassed correctly in the doors, but I'm quite happy with them.  

 

 

Would you guys link the horns you are considering?  I too have thought about going this route, but was afraid they may be too sharp/bright/piercing.

 

 

The only horns I've heard were in Senchez's Explorer, but they were set so loud it was very uncomfortable for me.

[///M5 2,833]

If you think the RF PP 10's are acceptable as mids you will absolutely think the horns are the cats meow. Will put your mids to shame with the right tune on them.

[Jasonc13 33]

Which horns do you recommend?

[///M5 2,833]

Same ones you've heard. Eric Stevens/ID

[Julian 641]

I will never go back to anything but my horns.

[Jasonc13 33]

Here is a direct quote from Eric Stevens' email:

 

Jason,

 

I offer two models in two different horn sizes. Pro and CompNEO are the models and MH and full size are the horn sizes

Pro are $350 and Comp$700
60 wrms 100wrms
107/109dB 1w/1m Pro models 109/111dB 1w/1m Comp models
1200Hz xover MH both models
800 Hz xover Full Size for both 
600 to 20Khz + for both with full size
800 to 20Khz + for both with MH 

Pro represents the best value and has 90% of the performance of the Comp, Where the Comp outperforms is with lower distortion and higher output everywhere.

I am here to provide help with product selection as well as support for install and tuning in any way you need. Either phone or email or on the DIYMA forums also. I can also make recommendations for system design and set up.

Eric Stevens
ES Audio LLC
310-869-4438
[email protected]

 

 

Should any other horn be included in the search, or are Eric's Pros good to go?

[lithium 358]

i would see which horn body you can fit under the dash. 

[jcarter1885 995]

Damn i remember when the comps where 500 bucks, haha at the 700 price tag. Neo aint no joke.

[SpeakerBoy 64]

What kind of 10 would you recommend to pair a set of horns with? I'm still in the dark when it comes to choosing raw drivers.

Edited February 21, 2015 by SpeakerBoy