building bandpass for 15, need some advice.

[heftybone 4]

You got it backwards

Smaller number = bigger wire

Probably not an audible difference

no, I'm not backwards. that's what I'm sayin; i have 10awg (which i know is bigger, but i don't think it's tru gauge because it's almost as big as the 12 I've got), but it's got a copper+ and an aluminum-, so I'm wondering if switchin it to the 12awg, (which is true gauge, and both are copper) would actually have an audible difference. I've seen alot of talk where people say they've switched from cheap wire to ofc and it made an audible difference. i guess there's really only one way to find out, huh?

[Frostedflakejake 148]

 I've seen alot of talk where people say they've switched from cheap wire to ofc and it made an audible difference.

 

Bologna. I bet you could go to those people and switch it back to CCA and if you didn't tell them they wouldn't notice a damn thing. 

[heftybone 4]

yeah i get ya jake. i guess, once again, there's only one way to really find out. I'm going to try switchin my wire anyway, so while I'm at it, I'm gonna wire down to 1ohm. i don't have any bass boosts set or anything except for one on the amp and that's at half and it goes to +12db, all sub levels at the hu are at 0 and there's no other crossovers other than the hu and amp. so i can always turn that one on the amp down if it's too much, and i can go negative with the hu settings as well. but when is it ever too much bass? what am i thinking?!

[heftybone 4]

I've seen alot of talk where people say they've switched from cheap wire to ofc and it made an audible difference.

Bologna. I bet you could go to those people and switch it back to CCA and if you didn't tell them they wouldn't notice a damn thing.

yeah, that's what i was thinkin too. i got cca 0awg power wire to the amp and it's deliverin the same voltage as the ofc 0awg that's on my big 3.

i thought maybe the copper would make for a cleaner signal, but i don't see how. i mean, aluminum is just as good a conductor as copper, right?

[Frostedflakejake 148]

i mean, aluminum is just as good a conductor as copper, right? 

 

No, but since the distance between your amp and sub is so short it doesn't matter.

 

 

conductivity by frostedflakejake1, on Flickr

Edited February 21, 2015 by Frostedflakejake

[///M5 2,833]

+/-2db ROFL not even close. It says it is a Type II meter not 2db

[95Honda 486]

CCA is garbage and purely a marketing gimmick geared towards car audio.  There is absolutely no reason, ever, to use CCA unless you like cable that just looks bigger for the same price or cheaper.

 

I didn't read back, but did you model to build the sub enclosure you are using now?

[heftybone 4]

+/-2db ROFL not even close. It says it is a Type II meter not 2db

na, it clearly states under the specifications; accuracy----+/-2db @ 94db spl, the microphone is electret condensor, it has a range of 30-130db, reference----0db=0.0002 micro bar and the weighting is a and c with a fast and slow display response. I've been using the c weighting as it responds to frequencies from 30-10,000hz.

it doesn't say anywhere about it being type 2 or any specific type at all. it does have a signal output though, what could i hook that up to and what would it do differently than what it's already doing?

Edited February 22, 2015 by heftybone

[heftybone 4]

CCA is garbage and purely a marketing gimmick geared towards car audio. There is absolutely no reason, ever, to use CCA unless you like cable that just looks bigger for the same price or cheaper.

I didn't read back, but did you model to build the sub enclosure you are using now?

first off, no i couldn't find a modeling software for mobile devices but i did goto my local car audio dealer and went over the specs with the old guy there and he used his enclosure spec sheet and we found that the port length and air space was right for one of the jl 15's, but i don't have one of those so yeah, the box is probably off for this sub as i built it for the fi sp4, but i couldn't get that one because i didn't have enough cash. so i spent the majority of the money i did have on a good amp.

anyway about the cca. I'm using 0awg for power and ground because it was cheaper than ofc of the same gauge and length, and everything I've read about cca vs. ofc is basically some people swear by ofc and others say it doesn't matter. I've even seen some people that say they tested it and the cca was just as free-flowin as the ofc. personally, it works for me for now, so I'll stick with it until i can get enough moola to get some ofc. and since i got a cheap amp kit, i have the fuse holders and shit that i need, so all i need is a good 20' of 0awg ofc, which i do want because i think it's better and i really don't like the cca, but like i said it works for me for now.

[heftybone 4]

and thanks lot for that chart jake, very informative. i didn't think it was the same and i figured if i said somethin like that then someone would chime in with some good knowledge.

[Jay-C76 333]

Found this little article:

http://www.speaker-wire.com/oxygen-free-copper-vs-copper-clad-aluminum-speaker-wirecable-buyer-beware/

[Frostedflakejake 148]

 I've read about cca vs. ofc is basically some people swear by ofc and others say it doesn't matter.

 

For power I would recommend copper cabling.  I can see an argument for the benefits when a cable is carrying 200+ amps. 

 

But specifically for signal from amp to sub, I don't think it matters. I've used copper, silver coated copper, and CCA and i've noticed no difference. 

Hell, the maths simple enough.

 

5ft of 10awg copper = .004925 ohms.

5ft of 10awg aluminum= .007823 ohms.

 

Regrettably I still haven't looked back to see what how much power you're running.

Lets say you're amp is outputting 2000 watts to a perfect 1 ohm load. The pure copper wire would have ~10 watts of loss. The pure aluminum wire would have ~ 15.5 watts of loss. 

 

I'm not a signals guy so I can't comment on anything about signal degradation between the two but I would imagine it wouldn't matter; especially for a substage.  

[heftybone 4]

yeah dude, I've seen articles like that and I've seen articles stating cca is just as conductive. the funny thing though, whatever materials the article is saying is good is usually the one that they're tryin to sell. either way, i think ofc is the best, and when i get my run of 0awg ofc i will do a conductivity test and see for myself, but i think it's already been proven by un-biased testers that ofc is the best.

is there an oxygen enriched copper wire out there? if so, would it be slightly cheaper? i doubt it exists though because i figure it would corrode.

[heftybone 4]

yeah jake, i can see where you're comin from because it's basically like you run all of this ofc just to plug it into a steel fuse block. of course the fuse block is so short that you're not losin anything because it's steel, but it's kind of the same principal. you're not losin much because the run from sub to amp is short. i wonder why they don't make the power inputs on amps out of copper?

[Jay-C76 333]

I think most are made from brass

[heftybone 4]

I think most are made from brass

all the ones I've seen when i was researching where a steel or aluminum color. perhaps they're coated? either way any connection to a fuse block or distribution block or at the amp is choked down with a non-copper material. of course the run is so short I'm sure it's not diminishing the current. but i figure having a long run of aluminum wire would, huh?

[Thumpper 266]

CCA is garbage

[///M5 2,833]

+/-2db ROFL not even close. It says it is a Type II meter not 2db

na, it clearly states under the specifications; accuracy----+/-2db @ 94db spl, the microphone is electret condensor, it has a range of 30-130db, reference----0db=0.0002 micro bar and the weighting is a and c with a fast and slow display response. I've been using the c weighting as it responds to frequencies from 30-10,000hz.

it doesn't say anywhere about it being type 2 or any specific type at all. it does have a signal output though, what could i hook that up to and what would it do differently than what it's already doing?

type 2 does define a couple db AT 1000Hz but it sucks donkey on both ends. There is a reason acousticians buy $5-25k sound level meters.

[heftybone 4]

hey, i paid close to $15 for this meter, it's gotta be good!

[jcarter1885 995]

hey, i paid close to $15 for this meter, it's gotta be good!

Yeah for spitting verses, mic check 1, 2...

Usually the mics used for db measurement in car's is upwards of $300.

Edited February 22, 2015 by jay-cee

[pmureika 31]

hey, i paid close to $15 for this meter, it's gotta be good!

The place I used to work for spent 3k on a db meter to measure the sound level in clean rooms.

[heftybone 4]

yeah, i can't justify shellin out that kind of dough just to get a reading. i think the local car audio dealer has an spl meter, so I'm gonna check him out once i get the new wire in and ran at 1ohm. he's gonna be reluctant and probably charge me cuz i didn't buy anything from him for this build and I've bought somethin from him on every build I've done for the past 25 years! i feel kinda bad but he wanted $8 for a 0awg lug, man! that's ridiculous when i can get a pack of 10 for $12. he usually works with me and flexs the prices but i guess times are tough. no wonder, at those prices!

that's one thing i never understood about dealers, even though they give ya some deals and lower the cost some, they still charge out-the-ass which pretty much drives them out of business. take radioshack for example.

and i always try to support the little guys, but at those prices it's hard to.

Edited February 22, 2015 by heftybone

[pmureika 31]

yeah, i can't justify shellin out that kind of dough just to get a reading. i think the local car audio dealer has an spl meter, so I'm gonna check him out once i get the new wire in and ran at 1ohm. he's gonna be reluctant and probably charge me cuz i didn't buy anything from him for this build and I've bought somethin from him on every build I've done for the past 25 years! i feel kinda bad but he wanted $8 for a 0awg lug, man! that's ridiculous when i can get a pack of 10 for $12. he usually works with me and flexs the prices but i guess times are tough. no wonder, at those prices!

that's one thing i never understood about dealers, even though they give ya some deals and lower the cost some, they still charge out-the-ass which pretty much drives them out of business. take radioshack for example.

and i always try to support the little guys, but at those prices it's hard to.

Buy one of these.

 

http://www.termpro.com/store/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=10&cat=+Term-LAB+SPL+Meters

[heftybone 4]

oh yeah, you guys know i was jokin about the $15 meter has to be good, right? I've looked em up and m5 aint shittin, some of em get up to $25k! damn!

[pmureika 31]

oh yeah, you guys know i was jokin about the $15 meter has to be good, right? I've looked em up and m5 aint shittin, some of em get up to $25k! damn!

Yeah!