i need help choosing my sub/amp

[Thumpper 266]

Personally I would use an Icon over any other sub mentioned

copper coil....smooth sound .....digs really REALLY low in a well designed enclosure

I ran Xcons too , the 10" Icons literally destroyed the 15" Xcons for low end

extension output with the same amplifier and the Icons were much more musical

Edited January 18, 2015 by Thumpper

[pmureika 31]

about the amps' sound; i meant based on componentry you'll get either a zed sound or a power acoustik sound. they both might put out 1000 watts, but the zeds going to have a fuller, cleaner sound than the pa.

my interest in the soundqubed sub Lie's not only in the 4" voice coil, but it's also the looks and the direct leads and the optional carbon fiber dustcap. i like all of that, and the logo is decent too.

as far as electrical goes, i have a 130 amp alternator and plan to run an extra battery. along with 1/0 all the way, plus I've done the big 3 and added an additional engine to battery ground.

I've ran alot of equipment in the past including a 2000 watt jl amp with another 600x4 jl amp without another battery, and that was 2/0 all the way and never had a problem. that was my last major system install in a mustang with 160 amp alternator, pushin 3-12's and several mid-bass/mid/high components.

I'm still unsure of the amp because i want a good clean sound, and around 2000 watts rms. and i know most are measured at 14-16v, and will not put out that much at a lower voltage, but i don't think I'll have that much trouble just because i don't have a 300amp alternator and 10 batteries. like i said, that'll come later on, when i decide to perhaps either strap the existing amp or go bigger, like to 5000-7500watts.

so I'm just tryin to decide which amp has clean sound, decent wattage in the 1000-2000 range and dependability/reliability. and i asked you guys because you have experience with the brands that I'm not familiar with, so thanks for all the advice, and remember I'm not new to the scene here. i just never had a sundown or new u.s. amps or rainbow or incriminator etc..

also, based on the specs, the us amps md 2d looks like a pretty decent amp and a definite contender. what do you guys think of that? i know it's not the wattage of the sundown, but thd is .02%, that's pretty clean sound from my experience. and also better than the zed which i believe is .1%. please correct me if I'm wrong.

*edit; also, i plan to build my own enclosure with the specs of the manufacturer recommendations for internal volume. so I'll have the right enclosure.

A 2000 watt rms needs 138 amps at 14,4 to put out it's full wattage. So if you have a front stage amp plus vehicle electrical draw you are way short of amps needed to run everything at full volume or even less.

 

Run a less powerful amp and sub will not make you lose much volume or bass. 

 

As far as clean sound that depends if you can supply the amp with the proper voltage.

Edited January 18, 2015 by pmureika

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

about the amps' sound; i meant based on componentry you'll get either a zed sound or a power acoustik sound. they both might put out 1000 watts, but the zeds going to have a fuller, cleaner sound than the pa.

 

Now we are getting somewhere. You nailed it on the head. As company's rate the equipment differently, a "cheap" amp is more often than not pushed to an unacceptable THD to reach its posted rating. 

my interest in the soundqubed sub Lie's not only in the 4" voice coil, but it's also the looks and the direct leads and the optional carbon fiber dustcap. i like all of that, and the logo is decent too.

 

 

Sounds like we have a sub picked! NOW lets start focusing on the enclosure. What freq do you plan on tuning the enclosure to??? What dimensions are the space we are working with?

as far as electrical goes, i have a 130 amp alternator and plan to run an extra battery. along with 1/0 all the way, plus I've done the big 3 and added an additional engine to battery ground.

 

 

I'm not busting your balls about your electrical. Just making sure you are aware it is a shortcoming in the equation. You will be fine with with what you have. And you can upgrade as funds or desire necessitates. 

I've ran alot of equipment in the past including a 2000 watt jl amp with another 600x4 jl amp without another battery, and that was 2/0 all the way and never had a problem. that was my last major system install in a mustang with 160 amp alternator, pushin 3-12's and several mid-bass/mid/high components.

What year Mustang? I have a 65 I am restoring currently.

I'm still unsure of the amp because i want a good clean sound, and around 2000 watts rms. and i know most are measured at 14-16v, and will not put out that much at a lower voltage, but i don't think I'll have that much trouble just because i don't have a 300amp alternator and 10 batteries. like i said, that'll come later on, when i decide to perhaps either strap the existing amp or go bigger, like to 5000-7500watts.

 

Your smart to get the equipment you want now. Very smart.

so I'm just tryin to decide which amp has clean sound, decent wattage in the 1000-2000 range and dependability/reliability. and i asked you guys because you have experience with the brands that I'm not familiar with, so thanks for all the advice, and remember I'm not new to the scene here. i just never had a sundown or new u.s. amps or rainbow or incriminator etc..

 

Sundown is a good choice if you want to spend that much. I don't think you would be disappointed.  

also, based on the specs, the us amps md 2d looks like a pretty decent amp and a definite contender. what do you guys think of that? i know it's not the wattage of the sundown, but thd is .02%, that's pretty clean sound from my experience. and also better than the zed which i believe is .1%. please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

You can't go wrong with the US or the Zed.

*edit; also, i plan to build my own enclosure with the specs of the manufacturer recommendations for internal volume. so I'll have the right enclosure.

 

Most manufactures give a min and max vol. I couldn't find the Soundqubed specs right off. If you know them please post and we can get you rolling on the design.

[heftybone 4]

okay, i want a higher power amp for the future. I'm a father of 3 and i don't have money to upgrade my hobbies all the time. I'm lucky to be getting this!

i figure if i go with something beastly now, then i can upgrade my electrical in the future to fully utilize the potential. if i go with somethin crappy now, then I'm pretty much stuck with it for a long time. then I'll be upgrading my amp instead of the electrical, then I'll just be in the same situation I'm in now.

the voltage at the battery right now with heat, headlights/interior lights, radio, my cell and 2 kids' laptops plugged in I'm seein 14.85. i know that's no 2000 watt amp, but it tells me the charging system is pretty stable. i get no drop at all with the aforementioned accesories.

i feel like I'll be okay runnin a couple of amps. maybe i won't see their full potential, but I'll be happy.

like i said before, i had almost 3000 watts pullin out of a stock 89 mustang 5.0 electrical, w/ 2/0awg and had no problems. and that system was extremely loud and hard hitting with no distortion at all.

i don't see why this would be any different, my alternator is 130 vs. the mustangs 160amp. I'm using 1/0 now vs. 2/0 then. the amps where jl audio so they where accurate voltage and the mid/high amp was bigger then, 600x4 compared to a 200x4 now.

i don't intend to turn the gains all the way up either, in fact that's one of the reasons i want high power, so i don't have to.

i think I've made up my mind on the amp anyway, it's the arc audio xdi 2000.1. have you guys had experience with this amp? is it nice sounding and reliable?

Edited January 18, 2015 by heftybone

[heftybone 4]

thanks tatts, i must've been typing my novel when you where posting.

i think the box is supposed to be about 4.5-5 cubic feet, but I'm not sure right off, I'll check everything before i start building, of course.

thank you for seeing this from my perspective, i appreciate that.

i was considering the us until i saw the arc audio. now I'm stuck between them 2 with sundown still knockin on my brain! the us md2d has less thd then the arc or zed, but the power is moderate compared to the arc or sundown, so I'm still not sure.

i plan to build the box to specs which I'm unsure if the cubic feet is with or without the port included. this is my first time building a box to spec, usually i just got it close and they always sounded good, but we're talkin me bein 16-20 years old. i was young, dumb and full of,,, myself!

also i want to make a detachable bandpass enclosure that can be removed if i want and what not. the reason for that is because i want the speaker to be hidden so i can still throw shit in there without worry. also in my experience the bandpass gives good lows.

that mustang was an 89 lx 5.0 with a worked over motor, tremec t5 and a whole-lotta suspension work, done by yours truly. i have an 01 cobra now, as when i got my 97 cobra back in 98 i just fell in love with the cobras and never turned back.

are you keepin yours stock, or slightly modded or heavy mods or what? i love stangs, man.

Edited January 18, 2015 by heftybone

[SpeakerBoy 64]

What about working on your front stage and electrical before adding the sub? Front stage can be a mission in and of itself.

And you don't need a four inch coil to get mean =)

[hdrox88 142]

Can't wait to see a build log. I've had a few stangs myself.

[heftybone 4]

i know i don't need a 4" coil for beastly bass, but the thing is I've never had one and want to try it. you gotta realize that back in the day we had 1 - 2” coils. when i seen 2.5" i was amazed. then 3 came and that was like wtf! so now i have the opportunity to sample a 4", and I'm jumpin on it.

as for the front stage, that's already picked and I'm content with it. if it doesn't keep up with the sub, then I'll cross that bridge when i come to it. but i doubt it'll be a problem.

[heftybone 4]

Can't wait to see a build log. I've had a few stangs myself.

this one's goin in a minivan. the next ones gonna be in the stang. it'll be a few years though, but I'm not goin anywhere, so stay tuned.

Edited January 19, 2015 by heftybone

[heftybone 4]

i forgot to add that the one i do in the stang is gonna be straight competition with as many 15's as i can get in it. the back seats are already gone, so space isn't an issue!

[hdrox88 142]

 

Can't wait to see a build log. I've had a few stangs myself.

this one's goin in a minivan. the next ones gonna be in the stang. it'll be a few years though, but I'm not goin anywhere, so stay tuned.

 

Reading>ME. My bad, I got a little excited talking about cars.

[heftybone 4]

alright folks. I've been thinkin alot about the u.s. amps md2d. I'm kinda leary because they don't have a website, and re audio is somethin to them. I've heard people say that re bought them out, but re audio says they are a division of u.s. amps. what's the deal with that?

i really like the looks of that amp though, and I'm willing to take a chance, but if it's a crappy amp then i don't want it. the description on woofersetc.com says that it has high quality components and double sided pcb etc... also .03% thd.

i think it's either that or the arc audio xdi2000.1. anyone with experience with either of these? mainly the us amp, I've seen some people on here talk about arc, and it was all good things so I'm not really worried about buyin that one. just like i said, i can't find anything for u.s. amps directly, and that kinda worries me.

whenever i do a major audio purchase, i always like to contact the company beforehand just to get a taste of the customer service. i haven't tried going through re audio yet, amd quite frankly if i have to, then they're not a division of u.s. amps, they are the owners. and i don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing. mainly because i don't like the looks of the re audio's, inside or out.

[heftybone 4]

whoops, double post.

Edited January 19, 2015 by heftybone

[95Honda 486]

I have used a couple of the refurbished Md2d amps, they worked fine and were cheap...  

[heftybone 4]

I have used a couple of the refurbished Md2d amps, they worked fine and were cheap...

how was the power of them? did they meet your expectations? how did they sound? please, man, i need details!

[pmureika 31]

i know i don't need a 4" coil for beastly bass, but the thing is I've never had one and want to try it. you gotta realize that back in the day we had 1 - 2” coils. when i seen 2.5" i was amazed. then 3 came and that was like wtf! so now i have the opportunity to sample a 4", and I'm jumpin on it.

as for the front stage, that's already picked and I'm content with it. if it doesn't keep up with the sub, then I'll cross that bridge when i come to it. but i doubt it'll be a problem.

Then would look at a Fi sp4 series sub if you want a top rated U.S. built sub.

 

http://store.ficaraudio.com/sp415/

Edited January 20, 2015 by pmureika

[S.DeYoung 968]

 

i know i don't need a 4" coil for beastly bass, but the thing is I've never had one and want to try it. you gotta realize that back in the day we had 1 - 2” coils. when i seen 2.5" i was amazed. then 3 came and that was like wtf! so now i have the opportunity to sample a 4", and I'm jumpin on it.

as for the front stage, that's already picked and I'm content with it. if it doesn't keep up with the sub, then I'll cross that bridge when i come to it. but i doubt it'll be a problem.

Then would look at a Fi sp4 series sub if you want a top rated U.S. built sub.

 

http://store.ficaraudio.com/sp415/

 

http://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com/products/evil-15-sound-solutions-audio-15-3250w-evil-series-subwoofer.html

[heftybone 4]

i know i don't need a 4" coil for beastly bass, but the thing is I've never had one and want to try it. you gotta realize that back in the day we had 1 - 2” coils. when i seen 2.5" i was amazed. then 3 came and that was like wtf! so now i have the opportunity to sample a 4", and I'm jumpin on it.

as for the front stage, that's already picked and I'm content with it. if it doesn't keep up with the sub, then I'll cross that bridge when i come to it. but i doubt it'll be a problem.

Then would look at a Fi sp4 series sub if you want a top rated U.S. built sub.

http://store.ficaraudio.com/sp415/

oh, thanks alot man! here i am content with my sub and just stuck on an amp, and you throw this one at me! that is one beast of a sub, man. now I'm stuck, again! that fi is lookin real good to me. I'll have to think about it and compare that with the sq hdc4 that i was gonna get.

as for the evil, that is a killer sub as well, but slightly out of my price range. but thanks for the suggestion though.

I'm still thinkin about the amp, and i know any amp i pick isn't gonna feed either one of these subs. well let me say, either amp in my price range at the moment.

now I'm back at square one with 2 subs and 2 amps to pick from. if only i had the cash for all of them!

[heftybone 4]

hey fellas, quick question off topic. since everybody's talkin about my chargin system bein inefficient, how do you guys feel about capacitors? it just hit me that back in the day everybody that had any decent power was runnin em. I've never used one, so i figured I'd check you guys.

does anyone have experience with them? and what's the pros/cons? thanks men, and i really appreciate all the help here. this is a great forum. especially compared to some other more popular places. but i won't get into that now.

[95Honda 486]

 

I have used a couple of the refurbished Md2d amps, they worked fine and were cheap...

how was the power of them? did they meet your expectations? how did they sound? please, man, i need details!

 

 

They are class D, so they sound like most other class Ds.  The differences you here on the sub stage between most class D amplifiers is due to everything but the amplifiers themselves.  Don't misunderstand what I am saying, there are differences, but 99% of the sound you hear is determined by everything before and after the actual amplifier stage...

 

They are a 2Kw amp, so they will power any sub made.  The last one drove an RE SX 15 to full output before audible amplifier clipping, but honestly, that took less than 1Kw in the alignment I was running...

[heftybone 4]

I have used a couple of the refurbished Md2d amps, they worked fine and were cheap...

how was the power of them? did they meet your expectations? how did they sound? please, man, i need details!

They are class D, so they sound like most other class Ds. The differences you here on the sub stage between most class D amplifiers is due to everything but the amplifiers themselves. Don't misunderstand what I am saying, there are differences, but 99% of the sound you hear is determined by everything before and after the actual amplifier stage...

They are a 2Kw amp, so they will power any sub made. The last one drove an RE SX 15 to full output before audible amplifier clipping, but honestly, that took less than 1Kw in the alignment I was running...

I've heard alot of people say that it's not the amp making the sound, but back in the day, there was a tremendous difference when changing out amps with the same head units and everything.

of course it was usually from somethin like a jensen to a ppi, but still.

and when i say sound, i mean like the fullness, or clarity or the lows produced. i mean, personally, there was no better bass than a ppi and jl sub. there was nothin that compared. i would like that sound again, which isn't even attainable with a jl sumb/amp combo.

[95Honda 486]

Again, I am talking newer class D amps, you are talking vastly different topology...  The older class A/B were extremely different.  Output topology varied greatly from amp to amp, as did power supplies.  Dampening was all over the place and greatly influenced driver control...

 

The biggest sound difference you will hear with a current class D is having one that has enough power to not run out of gas at your chosen output level versus one that doesn't...

[heftybone 4]

ok, so that was all the talk I've heard throughout the years about class d. yeah back then it was pretty much a/b, but i see where you're comin from now. thank you for the lesson.

on a side note, have you ever heard of caraudiooutlet.co.uk? they have that us amps md2d for around $300, where woofersetc jas it for $600. not sure if it's british euros or whatever, but ill find out whenever they email me back. still, that's a hell of a difference.

thanks again for that insight though, man. so the class d is all basically the same, just some have higher/lower efficiency, thd, etc..?

[95Honda 486]

If it is the UK, it would likely be in pounds, they are worth 1.5x the US dollar...

 

As far as THD, that is hard to use as a way to compare class D.  If you look into into how a class D works it it is a bunch of really fast pulses that are varied and then filtered, so they inherently have more THD than almost any A/B...  If I saw a THD rating of 1% on a class D I wouldn't even flinch, that would not be a good rating on A/B before clipping...

 

Efficiency is very similar between amplifiers.  They all have similar switching power supplies and output stage topology.  Most of the biggest differences you will see advertised is subjective as it is hardly ever measured in a standardized way...

 

BTW, I think I paid $400 for the last Md2d refurb in 2007...  My brother is still using it to this day without issue...

[heftybone 4]

so all the class d's are gonna sound the same. of course there's variables like frequency response and harmonic distortion, but the sound is gonna be the same.

unfortunately, the a/b's don't usually put out the power that the d's do so i really never considered them. i didn't think they'd sound that much different when i compared the specs, but i guess I'm wrong?

it seems i have alot to learn about the digital technology. i really appreciate your help though, it makes deciding alot easier.