i need help choosing my sub/amp

[heftybone 4]

and i know it boils down to personal preference, but i haven't heard either of the brands outside of youtube, and it's always very distorted because of the mic. and i actually considered basing my decision on which had the most distortion in the vids, assuming that would be the one that hit the hardest! that was actually a joke. anyway, I've reduced my choices to either soundqubed or sundown. I'm getting a 15" sub, (either x-15 or hdc15) and a 2000 watt amp, (either scv-2000 or q1-2200). I've always liked the way jl audio sounded, and initially set out for the w7, but after some extensive research i really like both the sundown and soundqubed. i like the way the soundqubed sub and amp look, but i also like the fact that the sundown amp has a fan inside and more caps and transformers. the sundown sub has the high excursion surround, but the soundqubed has a 40mm xmax, so it's got a longer stroke than the sundown (assuming that the hdc15 xmax is measured one way as well), and with a 4" voice coil I'm sure it gets loud and hits hard. I'm not asking which brand is better here, hell i don't really know what I'm asking. i just don't have any personal experience with either brand and just want some of your opinions and advice. I'm going to be using an audiocontrol eqs and pioneer x7700bt with a seperate amp for mids and highs which i have all that worked out based on past experience and price. this is going to be a sound quality system for daily enjoyment. so any advice, help or opinions would be appreciated. also please don't hit me with the whatever i like better cuz it's up to me shit like i see so many other threads do, this is what a forum is for; discussion. if you don't want to talk about it because you've seen it so many times then just move along. thank you.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Either 15" would be a great choice. IF this is truly for SQ then you will most likely not be pushing either sub anywhere close to its limits. Giving you headroom, which is good. 

 

Enclosure design will dictate which one sounds better more than anything. Make sure you are willing to sacrifice the space required for the proper enclosure for a 15". Which can easily be upwards of 5+ cuft. A smaller sub in the right enclosure will sound better than a big sub in the wrong enclosure.

 

Speakers/subs are stupid in the sense that they only do what you tell them to do, through enclosure design, tuning, signal, etc. 

[heftybone 4]

fortunately i have a mini-van, but I'm only using the very back cargo area. and i agree completely about the enclosure, i know that makes all the difference. and even though i am after sound quality, I'm torn between these two because of the tremendous sound pressure they put out as well. i do like to feel my quality sound! i know that they're both good brands, and i can't go wrong with either one. that's why I'm so unsure about which one to go with. i have to say that i like the way the soundqubed looks, they have that thing that made me excited back in the 80's, ya know? that was primarily what made the decision back then. now that I'm old(er), i do research and try to get the best value for the money, i.e. quality, reliability, etc... so you'll probably tell me to go with the soundqubed because that seems to be the one that i like, but the sundown amp is a monster, and it looks better on the inside. so does it put out the quality of the soundqubed? they're both class d but we all know that different manufacturers produce different sounds. like jl audio, i love their subs, but the amps sound like shit in my opinion. so yeah, there goes the indecision part of my dilemma. thanks for the response though, and sorry if i talk your ear off!

[heftybone 4]

well i just found a video on youtube where a guy compared the sq 2200 to a hifonics brutus and they where basically the same amp, except the sq had cheaper capacitors that didn't last as long. then i got to looking at the sundown pics that i have and they use the same caps as soundqubed. but we all know that sq and sundown shove massive power into subs, so what's the deal? are they good or no good? i don't know anymore! screw it, I'm goin with pyramid!

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

I understand wanting a sub that's capable of getting violent. I have a 15" FI BTL in my SQ build. Which is why I say you won't be anywhere near the subs limit to get loud and clear. Which leaves you some headroom when you want to wail on it.

The question is rhetorical because both options are capable of producing the same output if set up properly. You will not hear a difference between the two options so choose what fits your MO.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

If it was my money I would get the sundown amp. For a sub I would grab a Xcon or a Zcon.

[heftybone 4]

by xcon or zcon, are you referring to sundown x and z? sorry, I'm a bit of a noob with the newer slang, unfortunately my slang is still stuck in the 80's & 90's! as for the amp, i think i might go with the zed minotaur III, can't go wrong with that, huh? i might start lookin for a sub that's made in the u.s. as well, i don't know. at this point i feel kind of shitted because of that component comparison, i kind of figured they shared similar stuff because they're built in korea, but when you see it for a fact, well, it's heartbreaking.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

The Zcon and Xcon are SSA brand subs and are built in the USA. The Zed amps are also built in the USA. You can go wrong with either brand.

Hard to find USA built amps without track down some old school goodness.

[heftybone 4]

i know that's right. and you said i CAN go wrong with either? i have to assume you meant can't, or else you may be referring to all the complaints I've read about zed amps and people having trouble with them? what equipment do you run?

[SpeakerBoy 64]

I hear a lot of people say the SQ subs don't get low as well as a lot of other subs known around here, that being said, I haven't heard either for myself

I know you've narrowed it down to two options, but if you're open to suggestions, I'd suggest FI, my BTL has been nothing but exceptional.

Edited January 15, 2015 by SpeakerBoy

[puscifer2 27]

I haven't seen this yet so... Is there a budget for this install? I mean, while the xcon and zcon are ABSOLUTLY brutal subs, there are great options for less $. Doesn't sound like space is a major concern. Let's narrow the field a bit.

[heftybone 4]

certainly, and i appreciate this. space is somewhat of an issue as it has to fit comfortably in the hole in the back of a grand caravan, but it's rather large so I'll probably have no problem there. I'm putting together a complete system and I've left myself around $1000-$1200 for the sub/amp/box, but i think I'll be able to build a box outside of that budget if need be. I'm wanting a 15" and the decent boxes I've seen on ssa are like $3?? so i figure I'll be better off building one so i can dedicate more $$ to the equipment. i want sq with spl on the side, so I'm going for an overpowered amp so i can keep the gain way down. i like the big rubber surround on the sundown, but the soundqubed just looks better imo. and i was liking the soundqubed amp until i seen that comparison, which i know it's not a bad amp, but i might as well get a brutus. either way now I'm leary about anything made in korea and was checkin the mmats and zeds, cuz linear power is kinda ugly, imo, and expensive. that's about where I'm at right now. thanks again.

[puscifer2 27]

Well then. As far as an amp goes I would say go for good customer service because like you said many of them are basically the same board and internals. I personally recommend sundown as I have no experience with soundqubed. Both have sub forums in this site and shouldn't be too hard to contact if necessary. As for sub I don't think anyone would ague about going for an xcon. Very musical and very capable of scaring you and anyone you demo for. I have a 10" xcon and still can't get over what it is capable of for such a small driver. Take some measurements of what will fit and there are quite a few people that would be willing to help with box design if you Feel uncomfortable doing it yourself or just want a second opinion.

Edited January 15, 2015 by puscifer2

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

*Can't go wrong.

I run a 15" FI btl, which can handle a ton of abuse. That said there are more musical subs out there that can handle a lot of power.

As Pusifer stated the SSA Xcon (and other ssa subs) sound great musically and get stupid loud. You might want to check out the SSA EVIL too. I have a 15" SSA Dcon also and it has amazing output on 400 watts.

As far as amps go, 2000watts is 2000watts. So get a brand you like/trust and has good CS and you can't go wrong.

Any amp over a 1000watts or so will require some electrical upgrades to your ride to preform properly. So take that into consideration.

My sub box for the btl is 6.3 cu ft total. The Dcons is only like 3.5 cu ft total. So definetly make sure you are willing to sacrifice your whole cargo area if you are going with a super high powered 15".

[Kanaworm$ 292]

Zed and MMATS make a great quality product and build them here in the USA. But what you need to know most internals of an amplifier are globally manufactured. It is very hard to get anything electronic that is completely made in USA.

 

Soundqubed and Sundown along with my own brand Synergy Audio have our amplifiers manufactured in Korea. Why? Because imo Korean built amplifiers offer the best in engineering, manufacturing quality and reliability.

 

I know Synergy Audio selects the components that are of the highest quality and tightest tolerances in their respective price range.

 

Imo customer service is what sets most comparable companies apart.

 

Good luck in your search.

[Notorious97200 339]

I feel like you're an Xcon guy !  The Xcon 15" will be nice on a Sundown amp too. I'm not a Soudqubed fan, but I'm not saying their products are bad. Just a personal taste here  

Give some meurements to be sure about what you can fit in your cargo area.

 

I think you can find everything in the SSA store : they have reputable brands and products. Take a look at all the SSA subs : there must be one to please you !

[heftybone 4]

damn fellas, (assumably), i really appreciate all this input. i am aware of the imported components in american made gear, hell i don't even know if there are any manufacturers in the u.s. that make the small electronics that comprise our amps. and I've seen the sundowns and such on youtube and the koreans clearly know a thing or two about making electronics. from what I've read however, their components are imported from japan too, so i wonder if a japanese made amp would be the best? they certainly know their shit when it comes to electronics. anyway, off subject there, i have to disagree with whoever said an amp is an amp. I've had many amps in the past almost 30 years, and some sound different then others. the best sound that I've ever heard, imo, was the ppi amp and jl audio sub combination of the early-mid 90's. there was just a distinct sound to them that I've never heard with anything else. even jl amp on jl sub doesn't sound anything like it. of course I'm going to have the audiocontrol eqs to tune everything up so I'm sure I'll get sound quality regardless. but I've seen some subs advertising straight competition use, so i don't know if they'd be good for sound quality music, or if they're just for spl burps. I'm going to check out the ssa's here in a minute, and i still don't know about an amp. i do intend to use my stock charging system for now, because i didn't budget for that and i aint changin it now because I'll wind up losing some equipment, and i don't want that! who would? i did the big 3, well 4 because I've added an additional ground from the engine to the point where the battery is grounded to the chassis. i might run a ground from the battery to the distribution block for the amps. depends on how much wire i have left over. that 12awg extension cord is expensive!

[heftybone 4]

i checked out the ssa subs, along with every other damn sub i came across. even dad's, which weren't that bad especially for the price. anyway, i think I'm gonna go with the soundqubed hdc4 mainly because it has a 4" voice coil, and everything else has a 3". I've never had a sub with that big of a voice coil, hell I've never seen a sub with that big of one, so i figure I'll try it. being a competition sub and seeing as how I'm just gonna be streeting it, it should last a long time. as far as the amp goes, I'm still up in the air with it. i was considerin the zed, but the power of the sundown is very tempting. i know clean power is better than muddy power, but from what everyone says, the sundown is pretty clean too. is it as clean as the zed? i doubt it just from the way they look on the inside, but I'm no expert so I'd appreciate any help you guys can give here.

*edit; you guys know i was joking with the 12awg power wire, right?

Edited January 18, 2015 by heftybone

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

 i have to disagree with whoever said an amp is an amp. I've had many amps in the past almost 30 years, and some sound different then others. the best sound that I've ever heard, imo, was the ppi amp and jl audio sub combination of the early-mid 90's.

I said 2000watts is 2000watts, not an amp is an amp. A watt is a watt is watt is a watt is a watt. There is NO amp that puts out MAGIC WATTS!!!  If you think there is then I have a unicorn you should buy from me.

 

You may of heard a difference from two different amplifiers, but was nothing magical. One was either more efficient, had the correct subsonic filter, was dialed in correctly, had the correct electrical upgrades in the car. etc. Without YOU knowing what it was that made the one amp sound better, it really does no good for comparison.

 

There are many reasons to buy one amp over another. The most important would be it has the right features/functions for YOUR setup. Other reasons could be it fits in the space you are mounting it, has the hook ups in the right locations for your install. etc

 

I believe the SSA EVIL has a 4" coil also AND a way lower FS than the Soundqubed.

 

If your liking the Soundqubed, the next step would be figure out the enclosure size and see how it will fit in your ride.

 

Just like a small sub in the right box sounding better vs a big sub in the wrong box. A 1000watt amp with the right electrical upgrades will sound better vs a 2000watt amp struggling for power. You will be back a week after installing asking "why does my 2000watt amp sound like it gets quieter/muddy after 5 minutes of bumping?"

 

Not to sound like a dick, but if you learn to type paragraphs, you will probably get more help. 

[heftybone 4]

ah, so i should space out the different aspects of my questions? yes, proper paragraphing is essential for people to stay interested in the conversation, i agree completely. thank you, and i just wasn't thinking and i apologize.

here, that's better, huh? anyway, i must've just misinterpreted that comment about watts and such, and i apologize for that as well.

now off to the reason we're here. i understand what you're sayin about a low wattage with adequate power and what not, but i want alot of watts even if i can't feed it properly from the get go, I'll have it for the future when i do upgrade my alt, etc...

i seen those ssa subs, but they where out of my price range. i need to keep the sub around $450 if I'm goin with the sundown amp that's around $540. as i only have a grand for sub/amp combo.

I've been looking at u.s. amps, rainbow, arc audio and powerbass. have you had any experience with any of these? I've been reading that thread about favorite brands, and I've seen people mention them, so i figure they should all be decent.

thanks again for your help, and i will keep the paragraph thing in mind in the future, as it does make it alot easier to comprehend.

*edit; there is also a difference in the components of amps to make them sound better, it's not just in the install or the voltage or wires or whatever.

Edited January 18, 2015 by heftybone

[jcarter1885 995]

I wouldnt buy a subwoofer just because it has a 4 inch coil, thats like buying an 18" subwoofer just because it looks cool without knowing if it can fit in the car or even if it fits your goals. Not a fan of soundqubed subs but to each their own. With a budget of $1000, you have a lot of options.

[pmureika 31]

I would use a 15 xcon powered by a sq2200d amp with good electrical.

 

But there are other combo's that would work well also. The key is good electrical to the amp.

 

What it takes to do that for your mini van my cost you some money you don't have.

 

There are a lot of ways to get what you want.

 

Plus a good enclosure for the sub would be the most important.

 

So pick your way to get there and then do it right the first time.

Edited January 18, 2015 by pmureika

[hdrox88 142]

If budget is a concern, I'm surprised no one has suggested an icon and SCV 1500, then you would have money left to make sure your electrical is where it needs to be for the "let 'er rip" moments. If you are trying to run a 2000 watt amp, you need to be factoring in electrical upgrades to your budget. "A lot of watts even if I can't feed it properly" is a recipe for disaster.

With that being said, the 4" coil probably isn't in your best interest at the moment. Sure it will take major abuse, but it will also take more power to get it moving. At the power level you are talking about here, a 3" coil will be just fine.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

 there is also a difference in the components of amps to make them sound better, it's not just in the install or the voltage or wires or whatever.

Sound better in which way? Clarify and we can help you get the amp that will "sound better".

 

A watt is a watt is a watt. An amp with weak components will peter out and not be putting out clean rated power. If you buy a Hifonics 2000watt amp and it will only do 1500watts clean power, you cant compare it to an underrated amp such as the Sundown thats putting out a solid clean 2000+watts.  Of course the one will sound better, its putting out more clean watts. 

 

I am all for a violent sub that pressurizes the cabin.

 

Just because a sub has a 2000watt rms rating does not mean it wont sound stellar on half that power. The enclosure plays a big part in this. Look up hoffmans iron law. Using the largest enclosure you can will net the most efficient setup (power wise), while still getting loud.

[heftybone 4]

about the amps' sound; i meant based on componentry you'll get either a zed sound or a power acoustik sound. they both might put out 1000 watts, but the zeds going to have a fuller, cleaner sound than the pa.

my interest in the soundqubed sub Lie's not only in the 4" voice coil, but it's also the looks and the direct leads and the optional carbon fiber dustcap. i like all of that, and the logo is decent too.

as far as electrical goes, i have a 130 amp alternator and plan to run an extra battery. along with 1/0 all the way, plus I've done the big 3 and added an additional engine to battery ground.

I've ran alot of equipment in the past including a 2000 watt jl amp with another 600x4 jl amp without another battery, and that was 2/0 all the way and never had a problem. that was my last major system install in a mustang with 160 amp alternator, pushin 3-12's and several mid-bass/mid/high components.

I'm still unsure of the amp because i want a good clean sound, and around 2000 watts rms. and i know most are measured at 14-16v, and will not put out that much at a lower voltage, but i don't think I'll have that much trouble just because i don't have a 300amp alternator and 10 batteries. like i said, that'll come later on, when i decide to perhaps either strap the existing amp or go bigger, like to 5000-7500watts.

so I'm just tryin to decide which amp has clean sound, decent wattage in the 1000-2000 range and dependability/reliability. and i asked you guys because you have experience with the brands that I'm not familiar with, so thanks for all the advice, and remember I'm not new to the scene here. i just never had a sundown or new u.s. amps or rainbow or incriminator etc..

also, based on the specs, the us amps md 2d looks like a pretty decent amp and a definite contender. what do you guys think of that? i know it's not the wattage of the sundown, but thd is .02%, that's pretty clean sound from my experience. and also better than the zed which i believe is .1%. please correct me if I'm wrong.

*edit; also, i plan to build my own enclosure with the specs of the manufacturer recommendations for internal volume. so I'll have the right enclosure.

Edited January 18, 2015 by heftybone