Caps

[Eldorado 0]

Ive been looking at some car audio companies that make very good quality gear.

Ive noticed that the majority of them have caps for sale.

Now, you think from reading all this stuff about them, they are bad ect ect that these high end companies wouldnt sell them.

But there must be a reason.

Just about every amp out there is filled with them.

So why not add another ?

Is a 1 farad cap better than 2 0.5 farad caps ?

What about cap banks, 30, 40 farads ?

Im, not about to go out and buy one

I didnt bother posting this on ca.com because i know everyone will say caps are junk blah blah blah.

Ive read that they can be helpful if your electrical system is up to par ( mine is )

[ANeonRider 3]

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/i...7&hl=capacitors

There is a HUGE difference between the caps used in amplifier construction and the ones that are thrown together for dc filtering. 95% of them out there have no business in the voltage path, that's for sure.

Ed Mienter, a former amplifier and digital crossover designer with Orion and A/D/S told me this :

A bank of smaller caps, all wired in series is much better in filtering out dc ripple than a huge cap inline do to the ESR. If you really want to do a good job filtering out the ripple you would need to calculate the inductance of the power cables and get the scope out and calculate for the switching frequency of the amps power supply and then you can determine the value of capacitance needed and which type of cap to use to best eliminate the ripple.

With the high current and ripple in the supply voltage the input caps of the amplifier heat up do to the ESR and cause them to fail down the road. An example Ed said was a prototype Orion 8 channel amp he helped design that pulled about 375A at full power, after awhile of testing the bank of input caps physically melted. They replaced the caps, and put a series of smaller caps inline with the power supply to smooth out the ripple and never had a problem afterwards.

I would include caps and cap banks in my product line if I was mainstream, can't say they don't sell....

[mrray13 30]

exactly like scott said, they sell, so include them. i install caps everyday. saturday i installed a second battery in a car (yellow top up front, svr in the back) and a 1 farad cap. when i asked scott why we were doing that his response was "the customer paid for it". 2000wrms is all the car pushes, and it's only doing half of that currently as one amp is out for service.

but it's all about the bottom line.

i dunno about smoothing out the dc ripple, but IME cap banks are better for storing energy compared to just a single cap. once you get around 10 farads, i've actually noticed a difference. under that and why bother? and if you go that big, get a blue top or a bat cap.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[oldschool4life 0]

Capacitors usually end up being a band-aid on a broken bone...

...they help; but, proper wire size (big three upgrade, etc...) & proper power "sources" (alternator(s), battery(s), etc...) is more important.

Capacitors gets tons of sales 'cause:

1. Most end-users don't know any better

2. Most salepeople don't know any better (or lie)

[JimJ 11]

They work quite well for DC heated filaments

[ANeonRider 3]

That's tiny compared to those monsterousities out there now.

[Eldorado 0]

Capacitors usually end up being a band-aid on a broken bone...

...they help; but, proper wire size (big three upgrade, etc...) & proper power "sources" (alternator(s), battery(s), etc...) is more important.

Capacitors gets tons of sales 'cause:

1. Most end-users don't know any better

2. Most salepeople don't know any better (or lie)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All of that is up to snuff in my system.

[Eldorado 0]

http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/forum/i...7&hl=capacitors

There is a HUGE difference between the caps used in amplifier construction and the ones that are thrown together for dc filtering. 95% of them out there have no business in the voltage path, that's for sure.

Ed Mienter, a former amplifier and digital crossover designer with Orion and A/D/S told me this :

A bank of smaller caps, all wired in series is much better in filtering out dc ripple than a huge cap inline do to the ESR. If you really want to do a good job filtering out the ripple you would need to calculate the inductance of the power cables and get the scope out and calculate for the switching frequency of the amps power supply and then you can determine the value of capacitance needed and which type of cap to use to best eliminate the ripple.

With the high current and ripple in the supply voltage the input caps of the amplifier heat up do to the ESR and cause them to fail down the road. An example Ed said was a prototype Orion 8 channel amp he helped design that pulled about 375A at full power, after awhile of testing the bank of input caps physically melted. They replaced the caps, and put a series of smaller caps inline with the power supply to smooth out the ripple and never had a problem afterwards.

I would include caps and cap banks in my product line if I was mainstream, can't say they don't sell....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The reason i asked is beacuse ive been looking at amp internals.

For example, my MD2D has about 8 little caps and like 4 big ones while rockfords just have 6 large ones and no little ones.

[CBFryman 2]

unless you play completely dynamic music, no long drawn out bass, capasitance of any sort does nothing for the electrical system buy put an extra load on the alternator.

[Eldorado 0]

Is there actual factual information about this ?

Or did you just see someone say it

If there is maybe you could find it ?

[CBFryman 2]

about what i said? It's the simple physics of the capasitor. It's whole purpose is quick discharge...like fraction of a second discharge. It can smooth out voltage peaks and dips with dynamic music making it easier on your voltage regulator. Beyond that it doesnt do much.

[Eldorado 0]

Lets say it was a 40 farad cap bank then.

[ANeonRider 3]

Lets say it was a 40 farad cap bank then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cap Bank that large will = a ton of ESR, not wanted.

[Eldorado 0]

Most companies dont even list ESR

So how is anyone going to know which ones have the lowest ?

[ANeonRider 3]

There is a reason why they don't list it....

If it is actually called a Stiffening Capacitor, then its good. Can only use that name if RC approves, and must meet his specifications.

[Eldorado 0]

There is a reason why they don't list it....

If it is actually called a Stiffening Capacitor, then its good. Can only use that name if RC approves, and must meet his specifications.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Kaption audio calls them stiffening cap's

* goes to check website just incase dude form kaption audio on t.v was lying*

** edit

nope " digital caps"

[CBFryman 2]

Lets say it was a 40 farad cap bank then.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

besides what aneonrider said, a bank that large would cost more money than Big3, battery, and alternator... and wouldnt help half as much and would put a HUGE load on the alternator.

[Eldorado 0]

Lets just say those are all done

240A h.o alt, big 3, optima D31 blue top

I dont see a cap bank putting a huge load on the alternator vs a winch or some off road lights, or even an air compressor

[ANeonRider 3]

Different though when one is more of a cork in the voltage system, when the others are accessories on the system.

If all those are done, you won't need any help anyways.

[Eldorado 0]

Different though when one is more of a cork in the voltage system, when the others are accessories on the system.

If all those are done, you won't need any help anyways.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well ya you wont need help but would it be beneficial ( regardless of money) to get one ?

Helotaxi said that when used in the proper setup they can be beneficial

but i dont see any evidence to back up that claim

" its not what you know, its what you can prove"

[ANeonRider 3]

Like I posted before, to have any benefit, you really need to analyze your dc levels, among other variables, to properly size a capacitor that will work.

[Eldorado 0]

Like I posted before, to have any benefit, you really need to analyze your dc levels, among other variables, to properly size a capacitor that will work.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

ya i know

but im lazy and so is everyone else

Plus i dont have an O scope

[DBfan187 0]

http://www.carsound.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60496

[Eldorado 0]

read it already

according to that a cap is worth it