Sorry everything is taking so long...

[mrray13 30]

Well I heard back from JBL and we are clear to use this basket:

Sweet!

cool...i'd still use the black chrome...noone uses it that i know of. and it's bitchin!

hehe..that oughta show my age a bit...

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Dylan Matlow 0]

Supports 22mm with a .25" thick spacer on the spider landing (or equivalent cup spider)...

Sure it isn't as sexy as the other but it gets the job done.

[mrray13 30]

Supports 22mm with a .25" thick spacer on the spider landing (or equivalent cup spider)...

Sure it isn't as sexy as the other but it gets the job done.

same basket that is on elias' 6" tcsounds sub...

kewl...

black chrome

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Eldorado 0]

Kinda but not really

they have a crap ton of them though

[Dylan Matlow 0]

same basket that is on elias' 6" tcsounds sub...

kewl...

black chrome

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I sure hope this isn't someone else's proprietary basket... I don't need ulcers! If it is I'm just going to have another company cast a basket of my own design...

What is this 6" TC sounds sub you speak of? I'm curious

[Upstage Audio 0]

I personally like the basket off the Macrom high end woofer

Not sure why but I like it.

[mrray13 30]

dylan, look in the show off section, elias has pics there....

i like that basket that upstage just posted...though it's type r kinda like...

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Dylan Matlow 0]

dylan, look in the show off section, elias has pics there....

i like that basket that upstage just posted...though it's type r kinda like...

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yea... We know that we can use the DBY frame though and it will do *OK* for now.

I sent an email to TC sounds about their 6.5" basket considering that it looks like it might support more xmax than our basket find... it is hard to tell though...

Here is what it would be used for:

*if it will indeed support more excursion than the frame we found we will likely just make a very limited run (50 units) just for us to show off... I would just make a 5.1 home theater setup which would use 10, Matt would likely make a line array (or do something insane with them?) (16-24), I would put some in my car(2), my mom's car(2), a few competitor

Edited June 2, 2006 by Dylan Matlow

[Dylan Matlow 0]

I heard that the basket just falls a bit short... its just the beefy - able to be run over by a truck looks that must have confused my eyes... More like I just thought the whole unit was deeper than it was...

^^

Is great!

I'm still waiting to hear back from place all over the world... Hopefully Monday we will know exactly what is up with the Omega!

[Dylan Matlow 0]

Well they can make our custom woven fiber cone, yes this means a new material... They can't do the top plate, I offered a solution to their problem hopefully it will work for them if not we will just do the motor build no problem, they cant do our crazy custom former so we will do that too unless they just happen to have amazing pricing on 250C coils with normal formers (.2mm thick aluminum).

Haven't heard back about the suspension yet...

Edited June 5, 2006 by Dylan Matlow

[Dylan Matlow 0]

Well they can make our custom woven fiber cone, yes this means a new material... They can't do the top plate, I offered a solution to their problem hopefully it will work for them if not we will just do the motor build no problem, they cant do our crazy custom former so we will do that too unless they just happen to have amazing pricing on 250C coils with normal formers (.2mm thick aluminum).

Haven't heard back about the suspension yet...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They can do the top plate and suspension it will just be harder for them and more expensive... I asked for quotes to find out exactly how much more expensive... They can't do a 6 layer coil so I converted the same motor to a 2 layer edge wound with slightly better results... There is more room in the gap now so we could go a little thicker on the short paths even... I gave them 3 different edgewound designs, hopefully they can get the aluminum wire of high enough quality and hopefully this won't drive the prices up too much... If it has too large of an impact we will just order the frames, soft parts, the magnet and we can handle the coils and steel parts...

Hopefully we get all the info we need tomorrow from them...

We also got some quotes on 4.6" dia. Be and Be Alloy domes to invert for a 6.5" midwoofers from Europe... $$$! I don't know how many people would like to drop $5000 retail on an all Be -- or 3800 retail on a Be Alloy 2 way component set... But unless we can convince retailers to live with only a 60% markup on such a high end set or talk the tooling costs down considerably that

Edited June 7, 2006 by Dylan Matlow

[MrSector9 0]

The Delta baskets are in so we can start work on assembling that project at least...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So any of these built yet? any pictures of any of this stuff?

Also did you hear anything back yet form the post directly above this one?

Edited June 13, 2006 by MrSector9

[barnie 0]

missed this thread first time around

looking forward to seeing the results though,

[Dylan Matlow 0]

Well they can do our custom fiber cone but it won't be in time for this project it looks like... Carbon Fiber or Glass Fiber is what it is coming down to I guess... Carbon Fiber is defiantly the better cone but it looks like it is about a $20 premium over a glass fiber cone... I'm waiting to hear back about cone moving mass... We have the motor narrowed down to 2 different designs, one with a 1 2/3" voice coil and another with a 2" voice coil if they can round out the voice coil cutout on the frame for us... The 2" design is better in every way since our main limitation with this design is pole saturation...

We have the spider landing spacer worked out, they couldn't do a 6 layer coil for us so I redrew the coil for them with an edge wound design... We will see how this changes the price...

[Dylan Matlow 0]

That is the terminal that we are going for.

The 1 2/3" coil variant has a 1.5 mm thick copper short path on the pole and a 1.5mm thick aluminum short on the ID of the top plate...

The 2" coil variant has a 2.5 mm thick copper short path on the pole and a 1 mm thick aluminum short on the ID of the top plate. Given the underhung design for both the inductance should be extremely low.

They are not built yet but at least were coming down the final stretch here... Sorry I was rather busy the last few days and couldn't update everyone on the progress...

[Dylan Matlow 0]

We have 2 designs for the delta, one is split coil and the other is overhung... hopefully we can make this split coil design work out for the price we set... Great ~11mm of xmax with a mounting depth that is unheard-of with this sort of xmax... The overhung is slightly deeper at ~3.25

Edited June 16, 2006 by Dylan Matlow

[Dylan Matlow 0]

Final 2" voice coil omega design submitted... waiting on quotes

Samples ordered for the Alpha...

Delta split coil design we are still trying to flatten out the BL a little more but it is looking pretty good!

[MrSector9 0]

So voerall the hype that was brought up what is goign to be so insanely special about these?

Thought there was a different design that Matthew was tlaking about that would revolutionize where now you are tkaing about normal motor builds.

Also any pictures of the 8" with 6mm flat BL that matt was supposed to have done a month ago?

Also I want to find out what the deal is here.

"You get far more flat BL this way than you would with XBL2 even.... as you can see from the BL graph.... and mms is waaaay lower than with XBL2. steel costs, machining costs, etc all lower as well... it's why Ology is doing these kind of motors for a lot of different places now" - Feandil

Where are these said motors, I am not going to be a fanboy but now you are talking about splitcoil and overhung, split coil is just the opposite of splitgap(xbl^2) and overhung has been done for along time, where are these huge differences you are supposed to gain over all other "already offered" technologies?

[Dylan Matlow 0]

So voerall the hype that was brought up what is goign to be so insanely special about these?

Thought there was a different design that Matthew was tlaking about that would revolutionize where now you are tkaing about normal motor builds.

Also any pictures of the 8" with 6mm flat BL that matt was supposed to have done a month ago?

Also I want to find out what the deal is here.

"You get far more flat BL this way than you would with XBL2 even.... as you can see from the BL graph.... and mms is waaaay lower than with XBL2. steel costs, machining costs, etc all lower as well... it's why Ology is doing these kind of motors for a lot of different places now" - Feandil

Where are these said motors, I am not going to be a fanboy but now you are talking about splitcoil and overhung, split coil is just the opposite of splitgap(xbl^2) and overhung has been done for along time, where are these huge differences you are supposed to gain over all other "already offered" technologies?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Alpha component sets use an overhung topology and are nothing exceptional. The $79/set first run price however is. They do include features such as a white woven kevlar cones, silk dome tweeters and a fairly textbook 2nd order xover... Nothing too amazing here.

The Delta is split coil, there is no BL flatness advantage over XBL^2.

The Omega is short coil underhung this has vastly flatter BL than XBL or split coil... 40mm thick top plate, with the extended pole and direct fields extending from the excessive outer neo magnet (huge magnet! enough to saturate the pole) will get our 70% BL point at just over 20mm of xmax...

The Steel costs aren't lower with underhung than XBL... possibly he was thinking about the machining costs being included with the steel?...

The reasons we view underhung as the ultimate SQ midwoofer/midrange/tweeter motor:

Lowest mms

Flattest BL

Lowest inductance

Flattest inductance vs X.

Downsides:

Huge magnet required

Pole has a tendency to saturate when you push designs to the extreme... So for some designs you have to up the voice coil size or just switch to a new topology if that just costs too much...

Shorter coil so lower power handling, good thing there are other tricks to keep power handling up

Now for a little bit of technical discussion that I've been putting off for awhile now...

Now I know some people are going to say that LMT is the flattest

[MrSector9 0]

I agree about the underhung being overal a very good topology since well liek you alreayd stated the reasons the only problem in a mid would be the depth issue of havuing a huge top plate and then having to offset the depth by using neo magnets.

The only problem i could see with the modified top plate woudl be the associated costs, sure a large run would be pennies per top plate but on lmiited runs as you must know the costs skyrocket.

Kinda the same goes for the split coil as being basically the same idea as xbl^2 the added weight and the problem with coil winding costs would be the only thing I would think that would overly affect my ideas on that.

Also however in a high power subwoofer I cannot see the weight being an over issue but in a small mid that is trying to stay flat, sensitve and be responsive it would definatly matter. Guess that is the reason for no over abundance of LMT mids.

As for color options I would stick with the 3, unless maybe only preorder sets of 10 drivers with other colors. Personnaly I woudl lvoe to see the offering of the colored carbon fibre but even then it is ahard product to sell since some people want neutral OR color matching colors.

Another as for here, I will only beleive the $80 price tag on a full comp set when I see it

Black chrome/ blue/black carbon cone.. i would care if it didn't make a sound it would look sexy sitting on the floor.

Also don't make the mistake from now on OR that other companies have made with false dates.....

If these DO come out I will surely be testing a set of the higher end underhung design, heck i should get them for free

[flakko 1]

The 8

[Dylan Matlow 0]

The 8

[Dylan Matlow 0]

Alpha Component set Prototype 1:

Woven white Kevlar cone, textile dome, pretty basic but decent crossover...

I'm still debating if I want a phase plug instead of the inverted dust cap and if I should get a higher quality xover made for this unit. As-is it sounds amazing for its price but I think with a proper xover this set would really shine.

Grill... We need to make a cool little logo...:

.75" silk dome tweeter, not quite sensitive enough for the Delta but they have a very refined sound. I haven't had a chance to audition them much yet since I have been listening to the Alpha set since it arrived...

This silk dome tweeter is a definite step up from the set used with the Alpha and seems to be the right tweeter for the Delta component set... It would also make a great drop-in replacement for the Alpha's tweeter at least with this basic xover...

Time to see who feels like running a few tests on this unit and giving their input .

[MrSector9 0]

I woudl love to test this setup.

and after these pics i guess I can stop calling it all "vaproware"

also you mean a real phase plug or the fake dustcap style one (think REcomps/ adire SF7)

What is wrong with boobie cones

also lets see the backend of that

[Dylan Matlow 0]

I woudl love to test this setup.

and after these pics i guess I can stop calling it all "vaproware"

also you mean a real phase plug or the fake dustcap style one (think REcomps/ adire SF7)

What is wrong with boobie cones

also lets see the backend of that

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I mean a real solid aluminum phase plug attached to the pole.

I have two other motor designs drawn up that I want to get samples of as well... One of them I know they can do in quickly but the other is a little more non-standard.

This component set is 2.5" deep, ~92dB/w though I haven