Fi audio Q12 and BL12 TOGETHER????

[Eroc3k 3]

Ok so I'm not sure if anyone has attempted this or not but It crossed my mind as i'm plotting my build. First off let me begin by saying I have an 07 Nox and want the build to stay behind the C pillar.
I can use ALL that space.   wifey said its ok, tee hee... ANYWHO! 

 

So my build plan is only for fun but I'd like it to be competition ready!(never know) I guess it would be an "SQL" build. I want super clean, very loud mids and highs (and lows really). But also want to achieve that nasty ground pounding low end. So SQ and SPL again I guess thats and "SQL" build. I listen to Drum and Bass, Dubstep, Hip-hop and everything else. Hate country sorry.. I like the punchiness of smaller 8-10" subs but also like that thunder from like 18's. Also confused on if I should do a split size perhaps a 8-10" and a 15-18". blah blah blah Lets get to the question:

 

As an example: Could I put a Q12 and BL12 in a single box with two separate chambers to achieve the above? Maybe a split chambered setup, one sealed for the Q, and the BL ported! Or both within a ported box that matches the recommendations?  Could this be a odd build or idea? should I keep it easy and get an SP4. Or again a Q10 and a BL15 or 18????? 

 

Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?

 

 

  

 

 Anywho just looking to get ideas. OH and I plan on running them off the appropriate Crescendo bass clef amp depending the route of sub I take. CDT audio is what im thinking for mids and highs also run off Crescendo Concerto  

[95Honda 486]

There is nothing inherently wrong with running two different subs.  You may get some phase difference issues unless they share common airspace (which is completely OK, even with completely different drivers).

 

BUT, there is also no real reason to do this.  The difference you are accustomed to hearing is due to the different way the drivers have been used.

 

The sound of sealed you are wanting is due to a high Q box, like over 1, this is what gives you that perceived "punch" and "tightness".  The reason the vented have sound lacking there is due again to their design and boosted low end caused by cabin gain which gives a perceived lack of upper bass.  Again, this is all a perception due to anomalies of each alignment.

 

My suggested would be, and this is only my suggestion, to chose a pair of the 10" or 12" drivers you were looking at (just chose based on space available).  If you decide sealed, chose a Q around .7-.8, if you decide vented, don't tune anywhere below 30Hz and try and model for a low ripple alignment.  You will need a SSF.  A tad of Eq, not too much, can also help get where you want to be, also...

 

If a bunch of this is over your head, get some help...

[lithium 358]

welcome to the forum. hate to say it but there's so much misunderstanding here. where to start... 

 

1. no such thing as SQL. i swear there's a post explaining these definitions somewhere. SQ = reproduction of sound accurate to the source material. SPL = raw output. 

 

what you probably mean is that you're looking for a decent sounding subwoofer that can get loud. which isn't particularly hard to find. building the correct enclosure is where most people fuck it up. All the jazz about ground pounding comes down to enclosure design.

 

2. punchiness and speaker size is an old car audio myth that never dies. 

 

3. if you haven't guessed by now, running those two subs together would not accomplish your goal. 

Edited February 15, 2014 by lithium

[lithium 358]

oops i got beat to the punch

[Eroc3k 3]

Cool yeah I totally understand. It was just a thought that came to mind. I haven't really messed around with car audio in over 15 years and am going off what I remember. 

 

So that said I should just run an SP415 and be done with it I'll run a fairly nice front stage and perhaps the same in the back doors. Do you think the SP4 will have enough response for Drum and Bass or would you think it would be a bit slow and muddy??? 

[Impious 1,476]

Subbass is inherently slow and muddy. There's no such thing as "fast" sub bass. If you want that quick punch and snap, you are focusing on the wrong thing. What you are looking for is called midbass. Focus on your midbass drivers.

[95Honda 486]

The perception of "fast" is all in your alignment...

[Eroc3k 3]

More mid bass you say, very good! Do you feel CDT audio HD series 6.5 midbass woofers would suit me fine matched with a single SP415 thats powered by roughly 2250RMS probably closer to 2k at 1ohm. BC2000D should be good enough at 1 ohm then later I could get another SP4 and BC2000D link them at 4k@2ohm should sound great. But then the mid bass is what I worry about. I love bass but dont want to drown out all the mids and highs either. I think 170RMS per channel for the mids and highs should be enough to cover. Right???

[lithium 358]

there isn't a midbass setup in existence that could keep up with that substage (that fits in a car). go ahead and try the comp set. install it properly with sound deadening and let us know if its enough. 

[///M5 2,833]

Cdt and midbass aren't normally something I'd say together.

[Eroc3k 3]

what would you guys suggest for midbass then? do you think I should go CDT audio for my mids and highs? I have a budget of $500 for all my mids and high crossovers included. Again I'm looking for a clean and loud setup. I'm not competing but would like it damn near that, loud and clear. I seem to be drawn to the SP4 for substage but thought of running a mixed set of Fi 12's using the Q and BL to (in my mind) resolve the higher notes of bass (Q series) and lower notes with the BL, so basically sub stage 25-150hz. Then with the CDT audio like 75-20khz. Right??? I'll be running Crescendo amps and will be upgrading the Alt, front battery and adding a rear battery as well. 2/0 shca throughout except for the 4 channel which will have 1/0 shca. Might even add a Epicenter to clean things up a bit, but that'll be after words. I also plan on doing secondskin through the SUV. I have plenty of room for a single 15 or 2-12's.

 

 

Opinions, thoughts, ideas?

[95Honda 486]

#1 don't waste your money on CCA power cable, seriously.  It is 100% a marketing gimmick...

 

#2 I think you are still missing what we are trying to explain to you about the sub-stage.  The way the overall output is going to sound is almost completely determined by the chosen alignment, not the cone size or driver type.  If you design for the desired response you are looking for (you sound like you are looking for a bump in the upper range like a sealed box with a higher Q) you will get the results you are looking for.  I have not personally used the components you are talking about, but when you have a sub-stage with something like a 15", it is hard to expect a single set of components to keep up in the mid bass regions at all but normal listening levels.  

[Eroc3k 3]

Oh I for sure am using all OFC no CCA.

 

Sorry for all my confusion but I think I understand what you're saying. And you are correct, I am looking for the upper range like a sealed box with a higher Q. But I guess what im saying is that I also like the lower tones as well. My original question should have been how can I achieve a full range of sound. LOL! I'm just looking to do a very clean sounding build with crazy monstrous bass that'll make soil your drawers a bit. 

[cloud77 28]

A sealed box is not going to provide you with the "upper range."  The sub will still play well below the Fs of the subwoofer.  I really don't understand what you are trying to do here.  Why would you want to mix these two drivers anyway?  They really aren't all that different besides the BL being more SPL based with potential for more power handling.  If you are looking for a dual set up make it easier on yourself and buy matching drivers.  If you're new to this, try the BL if crescendo BC2k is what you have on tap. 

[///M5 2,833]

No way you are going to have any benefit doing what you propose. Just going to be a mess.

150Hz is not sub-bass realm either, that is midbass. Sure you can have a sub play up there and sometimes it makes sense, but not the way you are proposing going about it.

[Eroc3k 3]

True, just looking for input really. Its just a thought. But i'm looking at it like an EQ. to boost maybe 100 hz and 30 hz (thinking to myself or even thinking outside of the box) to use one sub to focus on a higher range of audio (Q) and the other focusing on the lower range (BL). so getting SQ sound with a SPL feel.

 

Maybe i'm just trying to do what no one has done. i'm always trying to be different  lol

 

I'm not new to car audio but its been 18 years or so since I've dealt with it. Had a few friends do up their car which got me inspired to get back into in. my last setup I ran two US Acoustics amps I forget the model #'s now but they were dark grey with a red label I believe. They sounded great I ran two 12" Zeus sub's and pioneer mids and highs. I never entered comps or anything but that thing sounded pretty good. I built a 6th order box  for the two 12's and everyone who heard it said it sounded loud and clear. Again it wasn't big power or a huge build but i'm looking for some bang in my SUV again. I miss it but this time will be much better and bigger. MUCH MORE! anywho so just trying to come up with a game plan which is slowly focusing in. just looking for some answers on some silly questions. I have built a few setups too. perhaps 7 in total. I'm not an installer by profession but as hobby. I have built houses and cabinets and furniture so box building is fun for me. thats why im looking into different ideas. I do all my own mechanics on my SUV within my means but i feel with time money and the right tools I could accomplish anything. so anywho. 

Edited February 17, 2014 by Eroc3k

[lithium 358]

being different doesn't make it a good idea. boosting isn't a good idea either. you're worried about a very narrow range of frequencies for no particular reason. 

[Eroc3k 3]

Again just asking questions. I find it better to talk about it before actually doing it, works out kinks before hand. 

 

And I thank you guys for your input, it is very well appreciated. This is why I came here first! Helps me see a bit further into the logics of  it all. 

[lithium 358]

good luck with the build. best way to go about it out is to install something and figure out where its lacking. making it complicated from the start just makes that process of improvement harder. 

Edited February 17, 2014 by lithium

[Eroc3k 3]

I understand, just analyzing before purchase still waiting on taxes and a few other things before I buy everything. Again I am looking for a good beginning, I understand there will be some tuning and possible rebuilding of boxes. 

[///M5 2,833]

Stop focusing on using subs for midbass and instead focus on where you can make a difference. With the midbass!

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Do you still have the US Acoustics amps?  Those were simply the best line they every released.

[Notorious97200 339]

A single 15" sub will pleased you !

It will be able to play all you want (from 20 to 100 Hz). It can be super loud with 2000 watts. Just build the right enclosure.

There are free designs on this forum.
 

A good set of component speakers can do it for you, too. You may have to turn the bass down , if you want it to blend with the speakers !!!

 

Looks like my own install : a single set of comps, and a 15" sub, 2 amps and 2 AGM batteries (one under the hood, and one in the rear).

 

You don't need 00 ga wire. One run of 0 Ga, to the rear battery, From tehre, you go to both amps.

 

Good luck.

[Eroc3k 3]

Do you still have the US Acoustics amps?  Those were simply the best line they every released.

No unfortunately not but now that you say it I do know the person I sold them to. but again that was 15+ years ago. I'll have to call him.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Eroc3k

[Eroc3k 3]

A single 15" sub will pleased you !

It will be able to play all you want (from 20 to 100 Hz). It can be super loud with 2000 watts. Just build the right enclosure.

There are free designs on this forum.

 

A good set of component speakers can do it for you, too. You may have to turn the bass down , if you want it to blend with the speakers !!!

 

Looks like my own install : a single set of comps, and a 15" sub, 2 amps and 2 AGM batteries (one under the hood, and one in the rear).

 

You don't need 00 ga wire. One run of 0 Ga, to the rear battery, From tehre, you go to both amps.

 

Good luck.

 

Very well said. Thank you! So you think it's an over kill doing 2/0?? I figured more the better but a penny saved it a penny earned. 

 

Whats your opinion on CDT audio for mids and highs? and would it suffice for a single Fi SP4-15 on about 2k?

 

Also what type of music do you listen to? I'm curious on the kick response (drum and bass / jungle 160-180 bpm) on a 15"