Help With Active Front Stage Setup.

[EPerez 236]

So I keep getting told that an active front stage can be and usually is better than a passive component setup. Now, doing the front stage is very new to me. I've really only done a co-axial set powered by a 2 channel amp.

I'm going to need some help with speaker selection and ways/tricks to make sure everything is installed/tuned correctly. To put a number on a budget, I would say $400. That number is just what I have set aside for the front stage currently. Sound deadening is not included with that budget.

This is going into a 2014 Fusion. I don't want to cut any holes in panels and I can't fiberglass so stock locations will be used. Which is a 6.5 and tweeter. I will be making custom mdf mounts for the 6.5 (and tweeter if needed).

I'm keeping stock head unit and using an audio control lc2i.

Not sure on what amp yet, but I'm thinking of using the miniDSP. Good choice?

Sitting in the driver seat the tweeter is about 2 ft. from my head at chest level. The 6.5 mid is about 2.5 ft. from me at mid leg calf level.

Imagine both speakers were facing towards the doors perpendicular from where I look. So side to side. The tweeter is on a ~30 degree angle towards me an the 6.5 is on a ~10 degree angle towards me. Does that make sense??? The next pic is of the locations.

Speaker locations.

Here is the inside of the door panel. (Looks exactly the same on passenger door too)

Stock 6.5 mid.

The bitch that'll limit my depth.

Stock 6.5 mid width.

Stock 6.5 mid height. It's about 2.75" deep. (I CAN USE ABOUT 4" TOTAL FOR DEPTH. MAYBE A LITTLE BIT MORE)

Stock tweeter location.

Stock tweeter diameter. Diameter of the tweeter housing is about 1.5" and the actual tweeter is about 1".

Stock tweeter depth. It's about 1.25" for housing and .5" for the actual tweeter.

Not to sure what else to add. If anymore info is needed just let me know.

Edited February 9, 2014 by Bassink

[lithium 358]

headunit?

 

do you have 4 channels of amplification? 

 

does the budget include sound deadening for the doors. (i would start here and recommend contacting sds)

[EPerez 236]

headunit?

 

do you have 4 channels of amplification? 

 

does the budget include sound deadening for the doors. (i would start here and recommend contacting sds)

I knew I forgot something lol

I am keeping stock head unit and using a audio control lc2i.

Sound deadening is not in with the budget.

[lithium 358]

jumping from coax installs to an active setup with a minidsp is a pretty big leap. also, a minidps is not really for a beginner in my opinion. it would be really great if you could go with an active capable hu. maybe hide a single din unit in your glove box? having those controls upfront is something i really miss now that i've done a minidps install. having to grab my laptop just to make some changes is a huge pain. 

[EPerez 236]

Hmm seems like it would be a lot of work to add a headunit. I mean since it's a lease. What makes you have to get your computer to make changes? Not familiar with the minidsp. I just read it is used for an active setup and it's fairly inexpensive.

[lithium 358]

you have to connect via usb and launch an app to make changes. minidps.com 

[EPerez 236]

Is it that just that brand that you have to do that with or are there others that are more beginner friendly?

[Impious 1,476]

None of them are beginner friendly in that if you don't know what the hell you are doing, your results are going to be subpar.  Going from running coaxial to active, even if it's "just" 2-way, is a  big leap.  IMO it's better to start out passive and work on understanding how to improve your system through basic tuning, EQ work and installation and understanding what you like/dislike in terms of speakers and frequency response and how adjustments in the EQ affect the sound you hear is needed before you go active without making it an exercise in futility.  Once you throw crossover points and slopes into the mix along with EQ and time alignment and other install issues, a novice is going to have a hard time making heads or tails of what needs improved, where at and how to go about fixing it.

 

Sure, you could throw an active setup in, guess at a crossover point and slope and call it good.  But at that point you might as well just go passive as they're virtually performing the same task and there's little advantage to active at that point....in fact it's probably worse.

 

I'm not discouraging you from running active at some point, I just don't think if your experience level with front stage speakers and sound quality is virtually non-existent that active is a good step for you right now.   

[EPerez 236]

I get what you're saying and yea I don't know much about tuning and equalizing . It is a big step but I guess starting with a comp set would be best until I learn more about this stuff.

Guess now the next step is looking for a nice comp set then!

[///M5 2,833]

First of all, nice thread. It may be the first time someone has truly shared what is necessary to help. Locations and installation are by FAR the biggest key to a successful install passive or active.

There is one detail you left out and that is how much space from the stock speaker to the door card. No matter what you are going to need a baffle and that will protrude in that direction. Of course the more space you have the further you can build it out and the deeper a driver will fit.

Your locations aren't ideal, but that holds for passive or active. The best way to learn active is to start with a set of passives and biwire them to the amps them such that you can switch between active and passive and teach your ears what is good and what can be improved (keep the crossover by the amps to make the switch easy). A baseline really helps the learning process.

If long term you really want to do an active setup, I'd grab any used comps you can buy that you can sell for what you pay for them and start by going back and forth and trying to improve them.

[EPerez 236]

First of all, nice thread. It may be the first time someone has truly shared what is necessary to help. Locations and installation are by FAR the biggest key to a successful install passive or active.

There is one detail you left out and that is how much space from the stock speaker to the door card. No matter what you are going to need a baffle and that will protrude in that direction. Of course the more space you have the further you can build it out and the deeper a driver will fit.

Your locations aren't ideal, but that holds for passive or active. The best way to learn active is to start with a set of passives and biwire them to the amps them such that you can switch between active and passive and teach your ears what is good and what can be improved (keep the crossover by the amps to make the switch easy). A baseline really helps the learning process.

If long term you really want to do an active setup, I'd grab any used comps you can buy that you can sell for what you pay for them and start by going back and forth and trying to improve them.

 

Well it'd be no help to you guys to help me if I don't put any info or effort into the thread lol thanks though.

 

 

Yes, I was thinking that the speaker will stick out more and I safely know I can have around 4-4.5" for the depth. Any more and I will need to for sure check and see what the actual difference is. When getting into these types of speakers I never really checked the depth on them. Not thinking a lot of them will be more then that depth, right?

 

 

Me and you most definitely have different levels of quality though Sean. You have tons more experience then me and I know I will be happy with something way before you will be satisfied. I also did forget to mention my goals in the original post.

 

My goals for this are to have the words and music loud enough to hear over 2 15" Ethos when I play the Ethos at their max volume. Can't really say how loud the subs are going to be, but maybe you get the idea of how loud the door speakers will need to be in order to be able to hear the words. I'm trying to not to use the words "keep up", because that's not what I want to do. All I need is the words and music to be loud enough when the subs are playing because I really only show off when I'm at those volumes. Right now the stock speakers sound pretty good with the midbass and I know when I get new speakers the midbass should be better and I will be happy with that at lower volumes. I think my goals will make things a lot easier for me to pick speakers and set this front stage up.

 

I see what you're saying about switching from active to passive. I've never thought of doing that lol pretty good idea on how to learn how things should be and what sounds good and what doesn't.

 

So if I do what you suggest should I just use the amp's crossovers when going to active from passive? I read that you said tuning at the amp is a bad way to do it. Did I read that right?

[puscifer2 27]

Without sound deadening done you will probably lose some mid bass. The factory speakers usually come sealed off or some type of enclosure integrated on the basket. After changing highs and midrange will be noticeably better but you will notice a gap in sound at mid bass levels. Having said that I run crescendo cz 6.5 comps and love them. I hear the ia 6.5 is a good set as well. Neither option will do much better without deadening first.

Edited February 10, 2014 by puscifer2

[///M5 2,833]

I'd buy a processor and not use the amps. If you can't make changes in the drivers seat you shouldn't even bother trying. At least for your first setup.

[EPerez 236]

Without sound deadening done you will probably lose some mid bass. The factory speakers usually come sealed off or some type of enclosure integrated on the basket. After changing highs and midrange will be noticeably better but you will notice a gap in sound at mid bass levels. Having said that I run crescendo cz 6.5 comps and love them. I hear the ia 6.5 is a good set as well. Neither option will do much better without deadening first.

 

 

You're right. I have CLD tiles now from SDS and will be purchasing the other things needed like CCF and MLV soon from SDS. I will for sure make sure the doors are deadened before everything is done.

[EPerez 236]

I'd buy a processor and not use the amps. If you can't make changes in the drivers seat you shouldn't even bother trying. At least for your first setup.

 

Are there any processors you can recommend? Something that would be relatively easy to work with. I've never used a processor or anything alike.

[puscifer2 27]

It's good to see ford finally move on from 4x6 stuff tho. Building a baffle was kind of a beeatch on my focus. Best of luck

[EPerez 236]

I know man I was so frustrated building a baffle when I had the 2012 fusion. I just gave up because I could not get it to work right. I love how they're 6.5s now; it's so much easier this way.

[///M5 2,833]

That depends a lot on what happens next. A headunit is really your best bet. Next is a computer controlled processor. Just travel with your PC A LOT in the early going.

I see you reference a minidsp. They will ONLY do 4chn so your sub will have to be dealt with in either a 2nd minidsp or another proc. It also isn't the most car friendly piece with such low input voltage and potentials for noise it isn't the easiest item to use. That being said the flexibility is awesome. I run a pair in my boat.

Other processors will really depend on what you can find used.

[EPerez 236]

I think I know what I'm going to do...

I'll buy a set of comps and try it with a passive crossover. I'll properly deaden the doors and see if I like it. If everything works out good then I'll keep it. If I feel I need more then I'll go into buying the processing equipment. I don't see why I would buy that stuff if passive does what I want lol my goals are simple, or at least I think they are. Also from what you guys are saying I think ill most Likely be happy with a new upgraded set of components.

[puscifer2 27]

The way I did the baffles will probably draw some critics but, I bought heavy plastic cutting boards from Walmart. Traced the 4x6 opening from the inner liner and adjusted as needed to fit the 6.5 and hacked away. Worked out really well honestly. Even got to reuse some of the factory screw holes to mount it.

[///M5 2,833]

Cutting board material doesn't rot. Just need to make sure it is beefy enough.

[smashedz28 110]

I love these active for the 1st time threads. Maybe one day I'll take the plunge. I feel reading through these helps prepare me.

[EPerez 236]

I didn't wanna put too much work into my last fusion because I knew I would get this one soon. This fusion looks like it'll be pretty easy to make good strong baffles.

[EPerez 236]

I love these active for the 1st time threads. Maybe one day I'll take the plunge. I feel reading through these helps prepare me.

I've gone through countless threads of going active. I finally made one and got some really good answers on what I should and shouldn't do.

[///M5 2,833]

The only problem with your current approach is that if you buy a comp set you actually like you will never go active. If one of your goals is to go active, I'd buy a set I expect to NOT like. This will allow you to play with processing to fix things which will train your ear and prepare you to actually buy real drivers. It'll also be the encouragement to get you to actually do it once the install is done.