Mid-Bass Driver Selection

[95Honda 486]

Honestly, I think with the OP's goals, he has picked the RIGHT driver(s). 

 

I think the only downside to that EA driver is how deep that bastard is...

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

He claims it will fit, as that was my first thought also. I am by no means an expert but since no one else seems to do anything other than tell him not to do it, I have taken it upon myself to help the guy out as I can see from the equipment the OP is using he is sincere. I wouldn't even waste my time if I didn't think the guy is serious.

 

You know what you know, you know. 

[Sencheezy 689]

Homie is going to run 12" mid's. He followed the SSA rule's in asking the question. It may not be what a lot of ppl would do but thats up to the OP. So lets help this guy pick out the driver that will perform the best possible for his application. The Phase plug will help with the upper freq's or they wouldnt even use them. We can debate how much it will help, but the fact is its going to help more than a driver without. Would a 12" be what the people with super human hearing would run, probably not, everyone has already agreed on that.

 

The OP is aware that asking a 12" to perform that high is a tall order. He is aware of the compromises his is making. 

 

Sencheezy, I assume you asked Eric about the EA driver? Is it possible the reason he suggested the other drivers is perhaps because they are one's he is familiar with? So is more comfortable with suggesting them.

 

Lets take a look at what Eric suggested.

The Faital Pro: http://www.usspeaker.com/faital%20pro%2012pr300-1.htm

The Beyma: http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%2012G40-1.htm

The Eminence: http://www.usspeaker.com/Delta-12LFC-1.htm

The Beyma: http://www.usspeaker.com/beyma%2012p80Fe-1.htm

 

The driver you found on your own. Good job btw.

The EA: http://www.aespeakers.com/drivers.php?driver_id=7

 

Of course they will all meet the requirements you are after. Each one has its own strong points and will have a different sonic signature. I personally feel the EA has the most going for it for your application, as it's going to work well in your IB setup down low, and is designed to be ran in in a car to begin with. The phase plug is also a plus. I may be wrong, SO lets hear what the experts have to say?

 

Hey brother, Thank you so much for this response. I really did smile while reading this. Means a lot to have so much support from you and other members. At this time, the Beyma has already been payed for as of This past Friday. SBN 2014 is literally right around the corner, so I wanted to get these in and tuned prior. I have no idea on lead time for the Beyma's, not sure if they are already built or built to order. But again, I cannot thank you for all the help you have provided thus far. Once they have arrived, I will be uploaded a crap ton more content.

 

Honestly, I think with the OP's goals, he has picked the RIGHT driver(s). 

 

I think the only downside to that EA driver is how deep that bastard is...

 

Ahhh! Finally, some relief! lol. I really do hope that these work out for me. And to you Honda, as well as others, I know that, once I have these things mounted in and playing, that my response will not sound so good, nor will it be optimal. I Just wanted you guys to know that yes, I acknowledge all of the downfalls for mounting these in the doors. I did not want to make it seem as if I'm being hard headed or seem I don't want any further help, as that is NOT the case. Thanks to all the input, now I know exactly where/what to target once these are installed. I know where my weak points will be, and will attack them accordingly. Getting the Beyma within 45 degrees from the passenger door shouldn't be a problem, doing so from the driver side, WILL be an issue, I'm sure. So that being said, 95honda, //M5, Impious, J, and whomever would like to chime in. What is the best way to mitigate poor performance due to the listener position not being within 45 degrees? The driver has already been selected, so saying buy a better off axis speaker is not what I need to hear, as I acknowledge that already LOL.

[Sencheezy 689]

Also, I do not have the tools to model the off axis response of the beyma, I guess that would be a good start lol

[95Honda 486]

I'll throw it around in my head for a bit...

[///M5 2,833]

poor doors. i thought i was being mean with my peerless sls 8s.

You are being meaner on your doors with that choice

I'd like to hear the reasoning for why this is good choice. seems like a smaller driver with a larger bandwidth and better off axis response would have fit the install better.

Yes

....and then the OP tells about wanting an audience to hear as well. This is a game changer, but also self defeating since your first post specifically asks for an SQ option. Good long distance and short don't mix. You are now picking for the ones outside the car and not the ones in. I could never make that choice or compromise.

[///M5 2,833]

What is the best way to mitigate poor performance due to the listener position not being within 45 degrees? The driver has already been selected, so saying buy a better off axis speaker is not what I need to hear, as I acknowledge that already LOL.

I bet you want us to not say change the axis of the driver either? Of course for that you are going to need a dual mounting so that in the car they are in a position and doors open another.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

You are golden Sen! That driver will do just fine. Don't forget to post pic's baby!!!

[lithium 358]

maybe he could mess around with a diffraction ring? 

 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/82067-diy-reducing-speaker-beaming.html

[Sencheezy 689]

poor doors. i thought i was being mean with my peerless sls 8s.

You are being meaner on your doors with that choice

I'd like to hear the reasoning for why this is good choice. seems like a smaller driver with a larger bandwidth and better off axis response would have fit the install better.

Yes

....and then the OP tells about wanting an audience to hear as well. This is a game changer, but also self defeating since your first post specifically asks for an SQ option. Good long distance and short don't mix. You are now picking for the ones outside the car and not the ones in. I could never make that choice or compromise.

And this is exactly why I am still wet behind the ears. To my knowledge/thinking. If the response was good at short distance, it would/should be good long distance. Honestly, I've never thought about how distance could effect, or could be a compromise rather, in car audio realm.

So to reiterate, the distance where you want the most output is a deciding factor/compromise to make when selecting a loud speakers? See, now that I ask that, lol, I essentially answered my own question. And of course, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Sencheezy 689]

maybe he could mess around with a diffraction ring?

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/82067-diy-reducing-speaker-beaming.html

This looks like a great read, thanks for the link!! I will study it sometime tomorrow.

[lithium 358]

diyma cooks up some weird theories sometimes. im not sure how much science is behind it. 

[Sencheezy 689]

diyma cooks up some weird theories sometimes. im not sure how much science is behind it.

Yeah, during the last few weeks, a lot of my educational material has seemed to link me over there! Lol. No matter, the more Intel I have, the better understanding I have. Rather it be right or wrong.

[lithium 358]

 

doug winker posted in the thread. guess he's credible?

Edited February 24, 2014 by lithium

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

 

diyma cooks up some weird theories sometimes. im not sure how much science is behind it.

Yeah, during the last few weeks, a lot of my educational material has seemed to link me over there! Lol. No matter, the more Intel I have, the better understanding I have. Rather it be right or wrong.

 

You will nail it with time in brother. Experience is the only way. 

[///M5 2,833]

Diffraction requires either a lot of engineer, trial and error or luck.

Could also run 3 way in the car and 2 way out.

I do think it is time to revisit or at least restate your goals. One situation or the other is a major compromise.

[Impious 1,476]

 

doug winker posted in the thread. guess he's credible?

Pretty sure he has a PhD in acoustics.

[Sencheezy 689]

maybe he could mess around with a diffraction ring? 

 

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/technical-advanced-car-audio-discussion/82067-diy-reducing-speaker-beaming.html

 

Now that I think about it, I had just came across a good bit of info from this site. 

 

http://whealy.com/acoustics/behaviour.html

 

In that section, it speaks about diffraction. And just based off of that image you posted, I have a some what understanding of why that ring is shaped the way it is. 

 

"There are many more ways to scatter sound besides using rough or convex surfaces. In addition to identifying the effective upper limit for the transition region of a sound field, Manfred Schröder invented a type of diffuser known as the Quadratic Residue Diffuser (QRD). It is formed by breaking up a wall surface into “wells” of different depth."

 

 

The ring around it, it has different groves and dips to diffract the sound, just on a smaller scale than the technique found in Auditoriums. 

 

At least this is my thought after the reading and looking at the image you posted. 

 

[Sencheezy 689]

For those who can't see the image.

 

[lithium 358]

 

 

doug winker posted in the thread. guess he's credible?

Pretty sure he has a PhD in acoustics.

 

haha ya i was being sarcastic. 

[Sencheezy 689]

[Sencheezy 689]

1080p fyi

[lithium 358]

both damaged in shipping? dam

[Sencheezy 689]

both damaged in shipping? dam

yeah, cosmetic, but still. Paying that much you would think shipping would have been better.

[95Honda 486]

That sucks...  Had that happen often from Parts Express back in the day with their cast frame stuff, Madisound, too...  I thought things were getting better...

 

My first pair of Tumults were trashed too...