Speaker help, recommendations...

[hatrix 2]

So last week while driving and listening to music at a moderate level, my left mid goes out all of a sudden. It comes back on then out again about two more times until it completely stops. The tweeter was still playing fine however.

 

Now I'm pretty baffled by this. I checked every connection, from the amp to the crossover and then finally the speaker itself. Nothing was wrong, but I redid the connections at the amp and crossover anyways. Still didn't fix it. I took the speaker out of my door to inspect it and test it on an amp in my bedroom. Nothing is visibly wrong with it, coil is perfectly shiny, cone moves up and down without any problems. Tried testing it in my room and still nothing from it.

 

They are Alpine SPR-13S 5.25" components. Rated at 100 watts RMS each and I'm powering them off of a Rockford Fosgate P500-2 @ 4 ohms. So as far as I can see I shouldn't have any problems with burning them up or anything. My right mid is still working perfectly fine. Gain isn't very high on the amp, high pass was set around ~100hz or so. Punch EQ at zero, I do not use it ever. I even set the high pass filter option on my head unit to 125hz just to make sure that over excursion wouldn't be an issue (and it's been running like this for a while now).

 

I'm assuming it's something internal with the speaker... I honestly don't know. I'm doubtful it's fixable, at least not easily if it all. Either way, not having the left half of my stereo field is driving me absolutely nuts. I mix and produce music with nearfield monitors almost every day, so stereo imaging is absolutely crucial to me. Plus, I lost a lot of output and the single mid and tweeter can't keep up with my sub. I need to figure out a replacement solution fast.

 

The series has been discontinued, I bought it probably 4 years ago. Only replacement I could find is a pair of just the woofers (I don't want new tweeters or crossovers), light usage, for $70. But then I'm paying for a speaker I'm not going to use and would just be a backup. I don't want to by a woofer from the new version as I'm sure it'll sound different and my woofers won't match.

 

What I would like help with is possible recommendations on if I should go ahead with the replacement from ebay or try to find a pair of different woofers for my doors. Or maybe figure out what is really wrong with the speaker ? I don't really have a very big budget unfortunately. Around $125 at most I'd say. That is what I originally paid for the component set so I'm not looking to downgrade.... I would kind of prefer to keep the tweeters since I already have them mounted and I like their sound. Maybe I can improve upon what I had with a new pair of woofers, I'm not sure with my budget.

Edited December 16, 2013 by hatrix

[altoncustomtech 773]

I'm thinking that if you're used to listening to music like you do with the nearfield monitors then you're a great candidate for an active setup for sure.  The imaging and soundstage from something like the full ranges and dedicated midbass setup I'm working on would bring a smile to anyone's face and especially to someone who produces music.  IMHO I think this is an opportune time to re-evaluate your front stage and do something that will truly make you happy.

[hatrix 2]

I'm thinking that if you're used to listening to music like you do with the nearfield monitors then you're a great candidate for an active setup for sure.  The imaging and soundstage from something like the full ranges and dedicated midbass setup I'm working on would bring a smile to anyone's face and especially to someone who produces music.  IMHO I think this is an opportune time to re-evaluate your front stage and do something that will truly make you happy.

 

I mean I'd love to but I know that's going to far exceed my budget....

 

I've never run active. I understand what the difference is, but I'm not positive on what I'd really need to make the change. Wouldn't I need to upgrade to a 4 channel amp and also add a sound processor before the amp ? That's definitely more than I have to spend sadly.

 

Or is my head unit capable of doing the job ?

Edited December 16, 2013 by hatrix

[pmureika 31]

Do you own a dmm to om the coil on that speaker?

[altoncustomtech 773]

I wasn't really speaking to going active immediately, more as a short term goal to keep in mind.  You could always get something to get you by for now and begin planning and working on an improved solution.  Yeah it's not horribly cheap going active, but the drivers themselves are the lesser end of the cost.  An active capable HU with at least as much processing power as the Clarion CZ702 would be a good place to start and it can be had for about $150 most places.  I got the Fountek FE85's for $13.25 each at Parts Express and to listen to them no one has believed so far they only cost that much.  The midbass would be a little different but you wouldn't have to get crazy spendy on them and you wouldn't necessarily have to get a 4 channel amp.  Keep the P500 to start with and just get another smaller 2 channel to run the full ranges or tweeters depending on the active direction you decided to go.

 

You don't have to go crazy buying things just to try out going active for the first time.  I've spent a bit more than I should have but that was for my own experimentation to learn and grow on the subject.

[hatrix 2]

Do you own a dmm to om the coil on that speaker?

 

No I do not. I really need to get one though. I would've done that immediately lol.

 

 

I wasn't really speaking to going active immediately, more as a short term goal to keep in mind.  You could always get something to get you by for now and begin planning and working on an improved solution.  Yeah it's not horribly cheap going active, but the drivers themselves are the lesser end of the cost.  An active capable HU with at least as much processing power as the Clarion CZ702 would be a good place to start and it can be had for about $150 most places.  I got the Fountek FE85's for $13.25 each at Parts Express and to listen to them no one has believed so far they only cost that much.  The midbass would be a little different but you wouldn't have to get crazy spendy on them and you wouldn't necessarily have to get a 4 channel amp.  Keep the P500 to start with and just get another smaller 2 channel to run the full ranges or tweeters depending on the active direction you decided to go.

 

You don't have to go crazy buying things just to try out going active for the first time.  I've spent a bit more than I should have but that was for my own experimentation to learn and grow on the subject.

 

I get what your saying. Thinking about it though, isn't it possible to still go active with my current headunit ? I would just have to run the rear/sw outs full range, then passthrough to my sub amp. Crossover would then be adjusted on the P500-2 along with the headunit.

 

I have another unused 2 channel amp sitting around too. Pioneer GM-5500T. A friend just gave it to me for free so I said sure lol. Shame my head unit doesn't have 3 sets of pre outs so I could control everything from it.

 

I was reading a bunch of threads on going active. I'm definitely interested, I've been looking at drivers on parts express to replace my woofers for a while now. This would of course be a 2 way setup to start off with.

Edited December 16, 2013 by hatrix

[altoncustomtech 773]

That HU really doesn't have the crossovers, time alignment and EQ necessary to effectively operate an active setup.  Now that does leave you in a great spot to use something like the miniDSP 2x4 with that HU and it only costs $105.  You could connect the front out on your HU to the miniDSP and leave the sub out on your subs.  Then run the mids on the Rockford and the tweets/full ranges on the Pioneer.

 

 

It's all still above your budget but at this point anything other than a cheap replacement component set is going to be but this avenue is by far the least expensive route.

[hatrix 2]

That HU really doesn't have the crossovers, time alignment and EQ necessary to effectively operate an active setup.  Now that does leave you in a great spot to use something like the miniDSP 2x4 with that HU and it only costs $105.  You could connect the front out on your HU to the miniDSP and leave the sub out on your subs.  Then run the mids on the Rockford and the tweets/full ranges on the Pioneer.

 

 

It's all still above your budget but at this point anything other than a cheap replacement component set is going to be but this avenue is by far the least expensive route.

 

Ah I see. I mean it does have options for both low and high pass on both pre outs, along with a 5 band EQ. It's not to bad but I see what you're saying.

 

I was thinking of going with these mids when I do go active: http://www.parts-express.com/fountek-fw146-5-1-4-aluminum-midwoofer-speaker--296-727

 

Fountek FW146. Seems to have a good enough frequency response compared to my alpines, if not better. They should get a bit louder too. I kind of want to order them as replacements now and run them with my passive crossovers but I'm not sure if it would sound very good. I just don't like the idea of paying just about the same price for a replacement Alpine Type R and having an unused speaker.

 

I was looking at that exact Clarion HU before it even released specifically for the time alignment and how cheap it is. I do like my current HU though, so possibly adding the miniDSP is a cheaper alternative when I go active.

Edited December 16, 2013 by hatrix

[///M5 2,833]

Exotic coned mids aren't the best first shot into the realm of active. That driver will get nasty above 3kHz and may not do so well much below. All of it can be tamed, but the nice pass band of it isn't so suited for a car installation IMO.

Locations first, then budget & processing determine logical choices. Until really knowing locations and what compromises you need to make in both tweet and mid it is hard to shop.

You are right about one thing though, that is a WAY better driver than is in your Alpine set.

[hatrix 2]

Exotic coned mids aren't the best first shot into the realm of active. That driver will get nasty above 3kHz and may not do so well much below. All of it can be tamed, but the nice pass band of it isn't so suited for a car installation IMO.

Locations first, then budget & processing determine logical choices. Until really knowing locations and what compromises you need to make in both tweet and mid it is hard to shop.

You are right about one thing though, that is a WAY better driver than is in your Alpine set.

 

Appreciate the help man.

 

I figured it was after looking at it's specs, and I figured it may get harsh farther up since its an aluminum cone. 

 

Mids are running on stock locations in my door, no dampening has been done or any treatment. I need to definitely. Tweeters are mounted on my a pillars. I have no stock tweeter location.

[///M5 2,833]

Finding a tweeter you can live with will help first. Depending on how low it can play will determine what the mid needs to do. By mounted on the a-pillars do you have any flexibility in size?

[hatrix 2]

Finding a tweeter you can live with will help first. Depending on how low it can play will determine what the mid needs to do. By mounted on the a-pillars do you have any flexibility in size?

 

My a pillars are annoying small and super close to the windshield the whole length because it's a XJ model jeep. I don't have the space to make pods for my tweeters so they are just glued to the pillars. I can still get behind them to clean up wires but it sucks the way they are. Distance from my mids is further than I'd like but I wanted them closer to ear level.

 

The Type R tweeters are almost the width of the a pillars. I don't think I can go much bigger.

 

They do swivel however so I've gotten them to sound pretty good with some EQ. Not harsh at all. What I want to know is what my tweeters are crossed over at exactly. I can't find the specs anywhere for crossover points for the set.

Edited December 18, 2013 by hatrix

[///M5 2,833]

You can measure if you really want to know. All you need is a test tone source (I use my phone) and a meter. Find the 3dB down point and then try the octave and see how many dB down it is. That'll tell you the point and slope.

[///M5 2,833]

I am curious why you want to know though.

[hatrix 2]

I am curious why you want to know though.

 

To help see if there's anything better as a replacement mid that they sound decent with, temporarily, with my current crossovers.

 

And oh yea I forgot I already had measurement apps on my phone. Duh.

Edited December 18, 2013 by hatrix

[///M5 2,833]

I am curious why you want to know though.

 

To help see if there's anything better as a replacement mid that they sound decent with, temporarily, with my current crossovers.

 

And oh yea I forgot I already had measurement apps on my phone. Duh.

Measuring the crossover points will NOT help that. There is no other driver with the same impedance response as the one you have. Crossovers are MATCHED to drivers. If you want to upgrade you need to replace both.

If it were an emergency repair or something temporary, ok, but for long term that isn't a good idea.

[hatrix 2]

 

I am curious why you want to know though.

 

To help see if there's anything better as a replacement mid that they sound decent with, temporarily, with my current crossovers.

 

And oh yea I forgot I already had measurement apps on my phone. Duh.

 

Measuring the crossover points will NOT help that. There is no other driver with the same impedance response as the one you have. Crossovers are MATCHED to drivers. If you want to upgrade you need to replace both.

If it were an emergency repair or something temporary, ok, but for long term that isn't a good idea.

 

The problem is I either buy used Type R mids and then have to pay for a speaker I won't use (as I can only find the woofer in pairs), or I just go with the other mids from parts express and replace both woofers. Using the passive crossover would most certainly be temporary. I want to go fully active. I know it is not ideal. But I'd rather make a good move for the future than just waste money on two woofers that BOTH won't be used in time.

 

I still don't know what the better option is though.

Edited December 18, 2013 by hatrix

[///M5 2,833]

If you buy woofers that work well with those crossovers you won't want to use them active later.

[hatrix 2]

If you buy woofers that work well with those crossovers you won't want to use them active later.

 

I get what you mean. I still would like to buy a pair of Fountek FW146s for when I can go active...

 

So either way I'll be wasting money as a temporary band aid if I don't want to comprise quality.

[hatrix 2]

I went ahead and ordered a used pair of the Type R woofers just since it's the better option as of right now.

 

When I get everything I need go active, then we can talk about dealing with the Founteks properly. I think I can handle setting it up in a proper 2 way. In the meantime however I'll need to recheck amp settings and increase my HPF because they must be receiving to much low end somehow.

Edited December 20, 2013 by hatrix

[///M5 2,833]

I get what you mean. I still would like to buy a pair of Fountek FW146s for when I can go active...

Um, no you don't. You think you do, but that woofer is not a good choice for your car. Has applications, but mobile isn't where I'd use it.

[///M5 2,833]

I went ahead and ordered a used pair of the Type R woofers just since it's the better option as of right now.

 

When I get everything I need go active, then we can talk about dealing with the Founteks properly. I think I can handle setting it up in a proper 2 way. In the meantime however I'll need to recheck amp settings and increase my HPF because they must be receiving to much low end somehow.

Good. Now start with running the R's active and switching back and forth. Once you can make them sound better active versus passive AND understand why you are ready to start driver shopping.

[hatrix 2]

I went ahead and ordered a used pair of the Type R woofers just since it's the better option as of right now.

 

When I get everything I need go active, then we can talk about dealing with the Founteks properly. I think I can handle setting it up in a proper 2 way. In the meantime however I'll need to recheck amp settings and increase my HPF because they must be receiving to much low end somehow.

Good. Now start with running the R's active and switching back and forth. Once you can make them sound better active versus passive AND understand why you are ready to start driver shopping.

 

Replacement came in a few days ago. Got in installed passively and it's working again as normal. I'll try what you recommended once I get my other amp installed.