amp dyno

[///M5 2,833]

What exactly is the goal of the "amp dyno"?  

[Impious 1,476]

Can you provide more details about how the THD and clipping are actually measured?

Are the units calibrated prior to being sent to customers? What are they calibrated against if so?

What is the accuracy of the device? What is the uncertainty?

[Tony D'Amore 15]

The idea of the Amp Dyno is that it would be purchased and used by dealers of home, pro, or mobile audio equipment. It is a tool for them to sell one amplifier over another, and to help them sell better accessories like power and speaker wire. One example: A customers system can be dyno'd in their car, their wiring upgraded and then redyno'd quantifying the improvements and placing value on them.

[Tony D'Amore 15]

The unit measures both harmonic distortion via our DD-1 circuitry, and clipping via a microprocessor and high speed A/D converters. The mode the Dyno is operating in determines if it will use the harmonic distortion detection and clipping detection, or just clipping detection.

[ricksi30 923]

The idea of the Amp Dyno is that it would be purchased and used by dealers of home, pro, or mobile audio equipment. It is a tool for them to sell one amplifier over another, and to help them sell better accessories like power and speaker wire. One example: A customers system can be dyno'd in their car, their wiring upgraded and then redyno'd quantifying the improvements and placing value on them.

I'm just some idiot (truly) but I have a few real questions. I'm assuming that this has no real use for an average or even an "extreme" car audio user, even the results? It is mainly meant to advertise a companies product? This device does use the dd1 correct? I'm fairly local to you too, I'd love to "shoot the shit" at a show or something if you plan to attend any you should let me know.

[Tony D'Amore 15]

The Amp Dyno is a pro level tool. Yes it has 2 independent DD-1s in it. We have a consumer level tool coming out in a few weeks. It is called the AMM-1. It's a audio oriented multimeter. It measures dc voltage, ac voltage, ac current, phase angle, power factor, VA, Watts, Impedance, and frequency. It's a handheld device.

[Tony D'Amore 15]

The Amp Dynos are all hand-built and calibrated by D'Amore Engineering in Tempe, AZ. Tested against several references including an audio precision, and a HP8903A

[///M5 2,833]

The unit measures both harmonic distortion via our DD-1 circuitry, and clipping via a microprocessor and high speed A/D converters. The mode the Dyno is operating in determines if it will use the harmonic distortion detection and clipping detection, or just clipping detection.

Okay, so you used the word measure which implies that you understand uncertainty and accuracy.  Your nooblet customers don't and/or your system is displaying non-significant digits. For instance:

Today at Skar Audio we put the Skar Audio SK-4500.1D on our newly built test bench and got it all set up with the SMD AD-1 Amplifier Dyno for power testing results...

 

SMD AD-1 Amplifier Dyno Testing Results

 

Model: Skar Audio SK-4500.1D Monoblock Amplifier

 

Certified Run at 1 Ohm : 4,943 Watts at 13.85 V

 

Un-Certified Run at 1 Ohm : 4,996 Watts at 13.85V

 

Dynamic Power Run at 1 Ohm : 6,208 Watts at 14.88 V

 

Dynamic Power Run at 0.5 Ohm : 8,641 Watts at 15.42 V

Kevin is obviously VERY confused on how to use the device which makes these questions extremely pertinent.

Can you provide more details about how the THD and clipping are actually measured?

Are the units calibrated prior to being sent to customers? What are they calibrated against if so?

What is the accuracy of the device? What is the uncertainty?

Please answer. Also note, saying you use a DD-1 to measure distortion is not a method, techniques to measure distortion are very defined and rather easy to follow. How do you implement that?

[Adrian_D 520]

I might have missed it, but does it use an active load? 

[Tony D'Amore 15]

It uses non inductive passive loads.  They are braking resistors for a light rail train.  M5, why so condesending.  I have an education.  Yes I understand those terms just fine.  The power measurement is done via 10 bit A/D.  It's about +/- 2% for power.  As far as the distortion detecting, they are calibarated to 1.0% +/- 0.1%  If you are more interested in how our distortion detecting works you can read the patent here: http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=20130044886&OS=20130044886&RS=20130044886

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

So the system is not a full spectrum analyzer? It only measures at 4 predetermined points if I understand as the patent states the filters are band passed at the 4 selected hertz.

So say if I was manufacturing a highs amp and I pick my 4 measurements points of say 100, 500, 1000, and 1500 hertz. If the amp had any distortion anomalies at say 350 hertz the analyzer wouldn't be able to pick it up?

[Tony D'Amore 15]

Quentin, that is correct.  However that is pretty impossible. 

[shizzzon 461]

I could see that..  That would be some pretty bizarre spiked slopes.

[Tony D'Amore 15]

The unit measures both harmonic distortion via our DD-1 circuitry, and clipping via a microprocessor and high speed A/D converters. The mode the Dyno is operating in determines if it will use the harmonic distortion detection and clipping detection, or just clipping detection.

Okay, so you used the word measure which implies that you understand uncertainty and accuracy.  Your nooblet customers don't and/or your system is displaying non-significant digits. For instance:

>Today at Skar Audio we put the Skar Audio SK-4500.1D on our newly built test bench and got it all set up with the SMD AD-1 Amplifier Dyno for power testing results...

 

SMD AD-1 Amplifier Dyno Testing Results

 

Model: Skar Audio SK-4500.1D Monoblock Amplifier

 

Certified Run at 1 Ohm : 4,943 Watts at 13.85 V

 

Un-Certified Run at 1 Ohm : 4,996 Watts at 13.85V

 

Dynamic Power Run at 1 Ohm : 6,208 Watts at 14.88 V

 

Dynamic Power Run at 0.5 Ohm : 8,641 Watts at 15.42 V

Kevin is obviously VERY confused on how to use the device which makes these questions extremely pertinent.

Can you provide more details about how the THD and clipping are actually measured?

Are the units calibrated prior to being sent to customers? What are they calibrated against if so?

What is the accuracy of the device? What is the uncertainty?

Please answer. Also note, saying you use a DD-1 to measure distortion is not a method, techniques to measure distortion are very defined and rather easy to follow. How do you implement that?

 

What in your opinion is wrong with the testing that Kevin published?

[///M5 2,833]

Reporting insignificant digits.

Curious how you calculate your 2%

[Tony D'Amore 15]

Monte Carlo analysis of the circuit.

[Tony D'Amore 15]

In reality though it is much better becuase they are tuned before they leave. 

[Tony D'Amore 15]

IIRC, all those affiliated with SMD attempted a similar marketing ploy here with the DD1 and it was futile. . . . But any publicity is good publicity.

I take it you don't approve of that tool either?

[Lee Carter 150]

The general consensus that I have gathered around here, is that, the DD-1's flaw is that is sees the clipping at 'x' db as determined by the track of the cd used at 40hz.  But not all music is recorded at a set db or at 40hz. 

 

Therefore you can still drive you amps into clipping an possibly damage your driver.  And that, basically, using you senses is the best way to know is you are 'stressing' your speakers. 

 

Which also plays to the scenario where you have a 1000 watt woofer, and a 2000 watt amp(*assuming RMS ratings are accurate)- setting you amp to the realm of clipping is unnessasary.

 

 

Again- not speaking for the board-  just my perception of what I have read.  I appreciate that you have 'stepped into the lions den' to answer these questions directly.  I believe the spread of knowledge helps us all.

 

 

For a question that I want to ask...When using your DD-1 technology, and it sees 'clipping' it this the 'end all' signal that you have match your gain to the voltage from the H/U or Source?  i just wish amps had a switch for  2v,4v,5v input voltage, and none of this would be confusing.LOL

[shizzzon 461]

A switch would be pointless because preout voltage from HU changes with volume and source material.

 

What you would want is clipping suppression that is used in many Pro Audio devices.

[Tony D'Amore 15]

The general consensus that I have gathered around here, is that, the DD-1's flaw is that is sees the clipping at 'x' db as determined by the track of the cd used at 40hz.  But not all music is recorded at a set db or at 40hz. 

 

Therefore you can still drive you amps into clipping an possibly damage your driver.  And that, basically, using you senses is the best way to know is you are 'stressing' your speakers. 

 

Which also plays to the scenario where you have a 1000 watt woofer, and a 2000 watt amp(*assuming RMS ratings are accurate)- setting you amp to the realm of clipping is unnessasary.

 

 

Again- not speaking for the board-  just my perception of what I have read.  I appreciate that you have 'stepped into the lions den' to answer these questions directly.  I believe the spread of knowledge helps us all.

 

 

For a question that I want to ask...When using your DD-1 technology, and it sees 'clipping' it this the 'end all' signal that you have match your gain to the voltage from the H/U or Source?  i just wish amps had a switch for  2v,4v,5v input voltage, and none of this would be confusing.LOL

Well understood.  The tool lets the user decide if they want to setup the system with no possibility of clipping whatsoever if they choose.  Most people don't prefer this setting in practice though. 

[gprestonmoto 89]

The general consensus that I have gathered around here, is that, the DD-1's flaw is that is sees the clipping at 'x' db as determined by the track of the cd used at 40hz.  But not all music is recorded at a set db or at 40hz. 

 

Therefore you can still drive you amps into clipping an possibly damage your driver.  And that, basically, using you senses is the best way to know is you are 'stressing' your speakers. 

 

Which also plays to the scenario where you have a 1000 watt woofer, and a 2000 watt amp(*assuming RMS ratings are accurate)- setting you amp to the realm of clipping is unnessasary.

 

 

Again- not speaking for the board-  just my perception of what I have read.  I appreciate that you have 'stepped into the lions den' to answer these questions directly.  I believe the spread of knowledge helps us all.

 

 

For a question that I want to ask...When using your DD-1 technology, and it sees 'clipping' it this the 'end all' signal that you have match your gain to the voltage from the H/U or Source?  i just wish amps had a switch for  2v,4v,5v input voltage, and none of this would be confusing.LOL

Tons of respect for having the stones to come in here and answer the hard questions. Tons.

[Tony D'Amore 15]

Thank you sir

[Tirefryr 1,742]

IIRC, all those affiliated with SMD attempted a similar marketing ploy here with the DD1 and it was futile. . . . But any publicity is good publicity.

I take it you don't approve of that tool either?

Did I type that?

 

The general consensus that I have gathered around here, is that, the DD-1's flaw is that is sees the clipping at 'x' db as determined by the track of the cd used at 40hz.  But not all music is recorded at a set db or at 40hz. 

 

Therefore you can still drive you amps into clipping an possibly damage your driver.  And that, basically, using you senses is the best way to know is you are 'stressing' your speakers. 

 

Which also plays to the scenario where you have a 1000 watt woofer, and a 2000 watt amp(*assuming RMS ratings are accurate)- setting you amp to the realm of clipping is unnessasary.

 

 

Again- not speaking for the board-  just my perception of what I have read.  I appreciate that you have 'stepped into the lions den' to answer these questions directly.  I believe the spread of knowledge helps us all.

 

 

For a question that I want to ask...When using your DD-1 technology, and it sees 'clipping' it this the 'end all' signal that you have match your gain to the voltage from the H/U or Source?  i just wish amps had a switch for  2v,4v,5v input voltage, and none of this would be confusing.LOL

Well understood.  The tool lets the user decide if they want to setup the system with no possibility of clipping whatsoever if they choose.  Most people don't prefer this setting in practice though. 

See here you go.  You got it.  Unfortunately, it is not marketed that way. 

[OuTLaWeD 110]

^^^^^^this is true. A lot of peopld don't know that its not the "be all, end all" tuning device. Better marketing needs to be done