Did I buy the wrong Incriminator woofer?

[KyleBrown 121]

Flat response won't be realistic. You're buying a sub with a massive amount of motor force, so peaky will be part of the game. You can try modeling them, but the plot is going to change once once those spiders break in. Most any sub will "play" music. How natural and how flat it will play is a different game. You'll never know until you try. I'm sure you'll be happy with the turn out. 

[OuTLaWeD 110]

Flat response won't be realistic. You're buying a sub with a massive amount of motor force, so peaky will be part of the game. You can try modeling them, but the plot is going to change once once those spiders break in. Most any sub will "play" music. How natural and how flat it will play is a different game. You'll never know until you try. I'm sure you'll be happy with the turn out. 

This is true. There is sooo much more to it than "The Judge will work for daily with no modification". There are a number of things to look at within the t/s parameters that tell you if the sub is a true daily driver.

As for obtaining the t/s parameters from Incriminator, back in the day they wouldn't give you shit. They would model enclosures for you all day long, but wouldn't give up the t/s. If a company wanted them it wouldn't be too hard to purchase the sub and send it out for testing.

[rowdyful7 10]

let me know how it works out for you im planning on running the same sub set up with a crescendo 5500 so let me know how it goes

[Impious 1,476]

Flat response won't be realistic. You're buying a sub with a massive amount of motor force, so peaky will be part of the game. You can try modeling them, but the plot is going to change once once those spiders break in. Most any sub will "play" music. How natural and how flat it will play is a different game. You'll never know until you try. I'm sure you'll be happy with the turn out.

Since the other pertinent parameters change in proportion to Cms when Cms changes due to "break in", the net difference in response is typically well outside the audible threshold. I've not modeled every sub in the world, but I've yet to see one with an audible difference in response due changes in Cms as a result of breaking in the spiders.

[Impious 1,476]

I'm pretty sure they don't list T/S specs because they don't want people designing enclosures off the values. Reason being the enclosure software being used is modeling with small signals in open environment, and the jump to a vehicle cabin and large signal greatly changes the frequency response. So people would be better off using IA's recommended enclosure specs that are a result of both modeling and real world tests.

But knowing the T/S specs is still useful if it's in the right hands, thus they have no problem giving it out via email.

At least that is my guess.

By the same token vehicle transfer function is going to change vehicle to vehicle so an arbitrary suggestion based on that unknown variable is going to be just as wrong as basing the enclosure on anechoic response alone.

And the better solution to the TS problem is to publish both small and large signal parameters rather than none at all.

[neo_styles 43]

I'm pretty sure they don't list T/S specs because they don't want people designing enclosures off the values. Reason being the enclosure software being used is modeling with small signals in open environment, and the jump to a vehicle cabin and large signal greatly changes the frequency response. So people would be better off using IA's recommended enclosure specs that are a result of both modeling and real world tests.

But knowing the T/S specs is still useful if it's in the right hands, thus they have no problem giving it out via email.

At least that is my guess.

By the same token vehicle transfer fiction is going to change vehicle to vehicle so an arbitrary suggestion based on that unknown variable is going to be just as wrong as basing the enclosure on anechoic response alone.

And the better solution to the TS problem is to publish both small and large signal parameters rather than none at all.

Transfer function, right? Sorry, just making sure I'm not misreading

[Impious 1,476]

I'm pretty sure they don't list T/S specs because they don't want people designing enclosures off the values. Reason being the enclosure software being used is modeling with small signals in open environment, and the jump to a vehicle cabin and large signal greatly changes the frequency response. So people would be better off using IA's recommended enclosure specs that are a result of both modeling and real world tests.

But knowing the T/S specs is still useful if it's in the right hands, thus they have no problem giving it out via email.

At least that is my guess.

By the same token vehicle transfer fiction is going to change vehicle to vehicle so an arbitrary suggestion based on that unknown variable is going to be just as wrong as basing the enclosure on anechoic response alone.

And the better solution to the TS problem is to publish both small and large signal parameters rather than none at all.

Transfer function, right? Sorry, just making sure I'm not misreading

Yes, I hate posting from my fucking IPad mini because I typo all the time and it auto-corrects to the wrong word......but it's so damn convenient.

[neo_styles 43]

 

 

I'm pretty sure they don't list T/S specs because they don't want people designing enclosures off the values. Reason being the enclosure software being used is modeling with small signals in open environment, and the jump to a vehicle cabin and large signal greatly changes the frequency response. So people would be better off using IA's recommended enclosure specs that are a result of both modeling and real world tests.

But knowing the T/S specs is still useful if it's in the right hands, thus they have no problem giving it out via email.

At least that is my guess.

By the same token vehicle transfer fiction is going to change vehicle to vehicle so an arbitrary suggestion based on that unknown variable is going to be just as wrong as basing the enclosure on anechoic response alone.

And the better solution to the TS problem is to publish both small and large signal parameters rather than none at all.

Transfer function, right? Sorry, just making sure I'm not misreading

Yes, I hate posting from my fucking IPad mini because I typo all the time......but it's so damn convenient.

Same issue I have with the Galaxy S4

[SacredTanakh 67]

I asked for t/s specs on the new warden 21 and box recommendations, and all they gave me was box recommendations. I even said they could just tell me the Fs, xmax, bl, and the rest were not necessary.

My friend emailed, and he got that the xmax is 27mm, but that's all.

 

Its the biggest reason I got a refund for my 21, I didn't want to gamble 1000$ on a woofer which may not fit my goals.

I like Incriminator audio, I know they are great quality, but its just hard to throw money at a woofer which all you know is its RMS.

 

So I am waiting till more information comes out, before I purchase them again.

Edited November 23, 2013 by SacredTanakh

[jfoodstamp 0]

Well I don't  have any additional info based on how they sound yet. It doesn't look like I will receive my woofers until mid December. But I am anxiously awaiting their arrival.

[rowdyful7 10]

Is that because of build time or is there a back order or what?

[neo_styles 43]

Is that because of build time or is there a back order or what?

They just had a huge sale and probably got swamped with build orders. I ordered my 18" DP the first day of the sale and still haven't received it. I just know things like this take time. Don't want to wait? Lol buy Skar/Sundown.

[OuTLaWeD 110]

I asked for t/s specs on the new warden 21 and box recommendations, and all they gave me was box recommendations. I even said they could just tell me the Fs, xmax, bl, and the rest were not necessary.

My friend emailed, and he got that the xmax is 27mm, but that's all.

 

Its the biggest reason I got a refund for my 21, I didn't want to gamble 1000$ on a woofer which may not fit my goals.

I like Incriminator audio, I know they are great quality, but its just hard to throw money at a woofer which all you know is its RMS.

 

So I am waiting till more information comes out, before I purchase them again.

that's where you screwed. The rest of the T/S are valid when building an enclosure.

[rowdyful7 10]

What's wrong with sundown?

[SacredTanakh 67]

I asked for t/s specs on the new warden 21 and box recommendations, and all they gave me was box recommendations. I even said they could just tell me the Fs, xmax, bl, and the rest were not necessary.

My friend emailed, and he got that the xmax is 27mm, but that's all.

 

Its the biggest reason I got a refund for my 21, I didn't want to gamble 1000$ on a woofer which may not fit my goals.

I like Incriminator audio, I know they are great quality, but its just hard to throw money at a woofer which all you know is its RMS.

 

So I am waiting till more information comes out, before I purchase them again.

that's where you screwed. The rest of the T/S are valid when building an enclosure.

It wasn't about building an enclosure, it was about the woofer itself being able to do what I wanted it to.  I would have followed their specifications on a box other then tuning frequency.

[jfoodstamp 0]

I used to be a dealer for Incriminator when I had my shop and most of the time It would take them about a week to build woofers  then another couple days to ship to me in Central Illinois. When I talked to Tricia on Tuesday she mentioned it would be December before my woofers would ship. I know that they are swamped because of the sale. Side note is I recently talked to Nick and he said they had plenty of stock for all the woofers so far as I can tell we are just waiting for build time

[w00tah 5]

I asked for t/s specs on the new warden 21 and box recommendations, and all they gave me was box recommendations. I even said they could just tell me the Fs, xmax, bl, and the rest were not necessary.

My friend emailed, and he got that the xmax is 27mm, but that's all.

 

Its the biggest reason I got a refund for my 21, I didn't want to gamble 1000$ on a woofer which may not fit my goals.

I like Incriminator audio, I know they are great quality, but its just hard to throw money at a woofer which all you know is its RMS.

 

So I am waiting till more information comes out, before I purchase them again.

Honestly, if you are willing to drop that kind of coin on a Warden, you have the money to buy a WT3 and pull your own T/S specs.  Not to mention that for 95% of users, the recommended enclosures will achieve the results the user is looking for.

[SacredTanakh 67]

I asked for t/s specs on the new warden 21 and box recommendations, and all they gave me was box recommendations. I even said they could just tell me the Fs, xmax, bl, and the rest were not necessary.

My friend emailed, and he got that the xmax is 27mm, but that's all.

 

Its the biggest reason I got a refund for my 21, I didn't want to gamble 1000$ on a woofer which may not fit my goals.

I like Incriminator audio, I know they are great quality, but its just hard to throw money at a woofer which all you know is its RMS.

 

So I am waiting till more information comes out, before I purchase them again.

Honestly, if you are willing to drop that kind of coin on a Warden, you have the money to buy a WT3 and pull your own T/S specs.  Not to mention that for 95% of users, the recommended enclosures will achieve the results the user is looking for.

The point is I shouldn't have to.. 

I'm unsure if it has the low end extension which is my listening habits. My plans were for tuning it around 30-32. Any higher and it would start to bottom out in the 24-25hz range.

[jfoodstamp 0]

Just an update. I finally got these installed in my car. So far with only about an hour of playing time on these they seem to do very well output wise. Sound quality wise comparing them to my old DC XL M2, Cerwin Vega STROKER PRO'S, DD9518 ETC. these are all on the same level. I am hoping just with a lil break in time they will sound better

[KyleBrown 121]

The vega is about the only woofer you listed that resembles any form is the vega, but that's my opinion. 

 

Oh and where's the damn pics?

[jfoodstamp 0]

 7 cubes net each tuned to 35 hz. I have trouble with adding attachments so my  build log is on **** under 93 Chevy caprice. hood "SQL" build