Blues BL10 Modeling

[gprestonmoto 89]

So maybe I'm confused and doing this wrong but I haven't had trouble before.

 

I've been modeling a pair of BL10's based on T/S parameters from the website. I've been told that they work great tuned low for a flat response but they seem to model great on 2.16 cu ft each at 31 Hz. Actually when I run them at 24-26Hz they kinda look like shit. Am I doing something wrong? Or does the 31Hz tune look fantastic for a build?

 

The blue line is 2 drivers in 4.327 cubic feet at 31Hz

 

[lithium 358]

box volume for yellow should be higher right? 

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

the yellow box is small.  That's why

[gprestonmoto 89]

That's the recommended porting. Even at 10 cubes it looks nowhere near as flat as other drivers. When I modeled the Ethos it's a slight bump then flat. At ten cubes its a larger bump then a sjgnificant dip.

[Randal Johnson 544]

EDIT

Edited November 3, 2013 by Cablguy184

[lithium 358]

defying the laws of physics. fucking amazing drivers i bet. 

[Randal Johnson 544]

EDIT

Edited November 3, 2013 by Cablguy184

[lithium 358]

what are talking about? 

 

OP, i think the blue box looks better. whats the point using a vented alignment with a the roll off so high (yellow)? perhaps i'm missing something

[///M5 2,833]

But what they can do is blend very well with other drivers in the system, can be VERY dynamic and give crystal clear music reproduction with very fine detail ... just wait until you can CLEARLY hear the foot taps in "grandma's hands" ...

Oh, you mean they act like normal subs. What a surprise. Doesn't match the rest of your post though.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

That's the recommended porting. Even at 10 cubes it looks nowhere near as flat as other drivers. When I modeled the Ethos it's a slight bump then flat. At ten cubes its a larger bump then a sjgnificant dip.

This is bc it was not designed for a flat response. It was designed for a slight ripple in response at tuning

[gprestonmoto 89]

That's the recommended porting. Even at 10 cubes it looks nowhere near as flat as other drivers. When I modeled the Ethos it's a slight bump then flat. At ten cubes its a larger bump then a sjgnificant dip.

This is bc it was not designed for a flat response. It was designed for a slight ripple in response at tuning

Bro I don't mean a slight ripple. Let me get a pic. The Ethos makes a beautiful SLIGHT ripple.

[gprestonmoto 89]

Let me please start this with saying I don't want this to be a Blues/LP bashing thread. I love the amplifiers and I think the midbass 8's and 6.5's sound great. I'm currently trying to decide if I want to run 2 Acoustic Elegance IB15AU's, 2-3 Blues BL10's, or a single DSS Ethos 15 in 3 cubes @ 22Hz. I love the Ethos and if I could reach xmax with only 1000w, I'd be done, but they need a significant amount of power.

 

This is the BL10 tuned to 22Hz with multiple different sized enclosures.

 

 

 

Honestly the BL's look pretty good at 31Hz, but not as good as I was expecting.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

 

That's the recommended porting. Even at 10 cubes it looks nowhere near as flat as other drivers. When I modeled the Ethos it's a slight bump then flat. At ten cubes its a larger bump then a sjgnificant dip.

This is bc it was not designed for a flat response. It was designed for a slight ripple in response at tuning

Bro I don't mean a slight ripple. Let me get a pic. The Ethos makes a beautiful SLIGHT ripple.

I understand what you mean.  Don't take this the wrong way, I spent 2 years and several samples to get the desired response.  

 

WinISD automatically models a C4 enclosure.  Maximumly flat response with lowest possible rolloff.  The Ethos was designed to go in a QB3 enclosure.  Which yields a low roll-off, a bit of ripple and good transient response, with emphasis on transient response.  When WinIsd models it's C4 you get a huge 14 cft box with a saddle hump in the teens.  The sub just isn't made for that.  Shrink the box down to 6-8 cubes and  tune to 15-20 hertz and you get a slight ~1 db ripple in the ~30-60 hertz range with a f3 around 15 hz.  Now put it in a 3ft box tuned to 32 and you get a massive ~5-6 db ripple which is why they seem to be much louder than the competition.  They are just optimized for output in the boxes most people are running.  Again this was intentional.

 

 

 

 

But back on subject "CableGuy" has more experience with these drivers so I'd take into consideration what he recommends . 

[gprestonmoto 89]

what are talking about? 

 

OP, i think the blue box looks better. whats the point using a vented alignment with a the roll off so high (yellow)? perhaps i'm missing something

That's what I'm saying. It confused me that it looks fine @ 31 Hz, but with that roll off at 22-26, I might as well run sealed.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

also, if you are trying to compare "SPL" the Blues will give you an exaggerated figure bc they list a 2.83 volt figure and not the usual 1w/1m figure. 

[gprestonmoto 89]

 

 

That's the recommended porting. Even at 10 cubes it looks nowhere near as flat as other drivers. When I modeled the Ethos it's a slight bump then flat. At ten cubes its a larger bump then a sjgnificant dip.

This is bc it was not designed for a flat response. It was designed for a slight ripple in response at tuning

Bro I don't mean a slight ripple. Let me get a pic. The Ethos makes a beautiful SLIGHT ripple.

I understand what you mean.  Don't take this the wrong way, I spent 2 years and several samples to get the desired response.  

 

WinISD automatically models a C4 enclosure.  Maximumly flat response with lowest possible rolloff.  The Ethos was designed to go in a QB3 enclosure.  Which yields a low roll-off, a bit of ripple and good transient response, with emphasis on transient response.  When WinIsd models it's C4 you get a huge 14 cft box with a saddle hump in the teens.  The sub just isn't made for that.  Shrink the box down to 6-8 cubes and  tune to 15-20 hertz and you get a slight ~1 db ripple in the ~30-60 hertz range with a f3 around 15 hz.  Now put it in a 3ft box tuned to 32 and you get a massive ~5-6 db ripple which is why they seem to be much louder than the competition.  They are just optimized for output in the boxes most people are running.  Again this was intentional.

 

 

 

 

But back on subject "CableGuy" has more experience with these drivers so I'd take into consideration what he recommends . 

I guess it just doesn't fit my goals. I'm sure they might sound great or something works well for other people. But I think for the money, I could run the Ethos with a giant smile on my face. I'd love to run a pair of Ethos' isobaric push/pull, but too much wattage! LOL, I guess I'll play with the AE's and Ethos some more to make my decision.

[Impious 1,476]

You think that's crazy ... you should see how bad the numbers looked when they designed my enclosure ...

But we soon found out that these are not ordinary drivers ...

I need to go back and check for sure, but I think my enclosure for 4 10s Isoberic is only 4 cubes with 80 inches of 4" pvc external port tuning.

It seems to work WELL beyond it's expectations ...

People normally just shake and scratch their heads when they actually see my enclosure compared to the sound output ...

From what we've found, those drivers work best at 24 to 28 htz ...

I will be glad to Discuss this on CA-F ... http://www.caraudio-forum.com/forum/forum/35-linear-power-blues-car-audio/

They are completely ordinary drivers. That's not an insult, just a fact. They behave identically to any other transducer, meaning they comply with all applicable laws of physics. They do nothing that can't be explained, and at small signals they will behave as the models predict.

Also, 4cuft for four isobaric subs is identical to 8cuft for a pair of non-isobaric subs. For 10s, that's fucking HUGE. So saying they are "only" in 4cuft is a little comical.

[///M5 2,833]

And while drivers like that made "sense" in the 90's, today they are just antiquated. Plenty will perform better in WAY less space. There is a reason that drivers have evolved...well most drivers.

[Adrian_D 520]

You think that's crazy ... you should see how bad the numbers looked when they designed my enclosure ...

But we soon found out that these are not ordinary drivers ...

 

That sounds like the intro of some movie. I still can't comprehend why people throw away simulations and say it performs completely opposite. 

 

Heck, on paper my cheap SPL setup was louder with 2 woofers in isobaric configuration than 2 in a normal configuration. And the paper results applied to real life. 

[Randal Johnson 544]

Guys ... My apologies for posting here. i knew better ...

 

To the op ... I personall think that you should listen to these people here and go with what ever drivers suit your application the best ...

Best of luck with your system ...

 

I think I will finally join my team mates and promise myself to never post on this forum again ...

Just too much of a hassle ... Again, thanks SSA

[///M5 2,833]

Guys ... My apologies for posting here. i knew better ...

 

To the op ... I personall think that you should listen to these people here and go with what ever drivers suit your application the best ...

Best of luck with your system ...

 

I think I will finally join my team mates and promise myself to never post on this forum again ...

Just too much of a hassle ... Again, thanks SSA

When you argue that black is pink it isn't going to go well.

[jcarter1885 995]

Guys ... My apologies for posting here. i knew better ... To the op ... I personall think that you should listen to these people here and go with what ever drivers suit your application the best ...Best of luck with your system ... I think I will finally join my team mates and promise myself to never post on this forum again ...Just too much of a hassle ... Again, thanks SSA

When you argue that black is pink it isn't going to go well.

Unless your talking to colorblind people

[Impious 1,476]

Guys ... My apologies for posting here. i knew better ...

 

To the op ... I personall think that you should listen to these people here and go with what ever drivers suit your application the best ...

Best of luck with your system ...

 

I think I will finally join my team mates and promise myself to never post on this forum again ...

Just too much of a hassle ... Again, thanks SSA

Don't blame us when you post misinformation. That's not our fault.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

Guys ... My apologies for posting here. i knew better ...

 

To the op ... I personall think that you should listen to these people here and go with what ever drivers suit your application the best ...

Best of luck with your system ...

 

I think I will finally join my team mates and promise myself to never post on this forum again ...

Just too much of a hassle ... Again, thanks SSA

Don't blame us when you post misinformation. That's not our fault.

He's not posting misinformation, just opinion.  

[///M5 2,833]

Guys ... My apologies for posting here. i knew better ...

 

To the op ... I personall think that you should listen to these people here and go with what ever drivers suit your application the best ...

Best of luck with your system ...

 

I think I will finally join my team mates and promise myself to never post on this forum again ...

Just too much of a hassle ... Again, thanks SSA

misinformed opinion which leads to misinformation

Don't blame us when you post misinformation. That's not our fault.

He's not posting misinformation, just opinion.