When an alarm does no good. ATTN Central Ohio

[nigel 148]

you said your dad had his in the back yard behind a closed gate? That means it's out of view from a passerby, if they know it's there it becomes a target if it's out of sight from the general eye.

I park mine beside an armed guard tower in a max security prison parking lot, seems to be a good deterrent.

[dem beats 1,223]

You have brain damage. Security is not about slowing them down, it's about making them not want to even try.

Don't be absurd.

I didn't say a thing about motion lights. I said lighted area. If the lights turn on once they are already in range of the lights they are already there. So it is much much much less likely to prevent a theft with motion lights. Motion lights are pointless as a deterrent as much as a generic alarm is.

[dem beats 1,223]

Also, I'm glad you are using super loud alarms. It might help.

However, can you stop talking down to me? I don't know at what point you decided it was cool to speak to people that way, but it's really really rude. When you made a reference to someone as a suspect it makes you sound like a wanna be cop. At some point you decided to talk to me in a really shitty way andit is really annoying.

My information comes from statistical figures from the biggest property(home business boat car etc) companies that pool their information and the data collected from interviewed thrives. I'm not posting my opinion and information to bulk up my e-penis. Theft is a big deal, especially to this forum, and misinformation is way too common.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

So the vehicle was on your property? Why isn't homeowners covering this?

[dem beats 1,223]

So the vehicle was on your property? Why isn't homeowners covering this?

You kind of touch on the point I'm making. It is usually cheeper to insure it than secure it......

[nigel 148]

in Canada (for example, not sure about how it is in the U.S.), on your property or not, if your vehicle gets broken into it's auto policy (for anything automotive) plus home policy for anything non automotive specific that may be in the vehicle at the time(tools or CD's for example they try to force the claim on your house) so you wind up paying auto deductible for the car stereo and broken car window ($500 for me) plus they try to say the 120 cd's have to be claimed against the house ($1000 deductible)... It's a lot of arguing with them, a lot. Pretty much, insurance companies will put the claims where they want them, and give you as little as they can.

Home deductibles are generally higher, unless you choose to increase your premium quite a bit, due to the fact that there is more value in the home to cover/lose (normally)

Edited July 29, 2013 by nigel

[dem beats 1,223]

How much more will it cost to drop the deductible?

[Godsmack 361]

So the vehicle was on your property? Why isn't homeowners covering this?

You kind of touch on the point I'm making. It is usually cheeper to insure it than secure it......

This is why I have an ABSURDLY high amount in Renters. I want to know that. If you take shit, it can be replaced easily. Going to look into lowering the deductable tho.

J

[nigel 148]

i forget what it was that I was told when I got my policy to get my deductible from $1000 down to $500, same with the cars I could pay a higher premium and get the deductible from $500 down to $300. To an insurance company it's all percentages and cost benefit. What you pay more in premium has to even out over time to make them more than the $ lost on deductible in the event of a claim payout.

[jonbearsmt 919]

i guess its true. i mean i have cameras too .. i have caught  it on film people waling up it warns then they scamper away.... so a deterrent helps ... also i pay my electric company to have a street lamp over my drive way.. so its light up.. some times i feel it helps.. but some times i feel like its shainnin a spot light and saying "take me"

[nigel 148]

I find it's all about doing your homework. I live in a fairly nice neighborhood (smaller homes on my street start ~ $250,000 and go up from there, house directly across the street from me would run you between $400k and $500K if it went up for sale), I'm in the lowest crime rate district area in my city, and it is a small subdivision that only has one entrance/exit. Well lit neighborhood with good streetlighting at night. And is no where close to the higher crime rate areas of town. All these factor higher into not getting your car broken into higher than an alarm.

[shizzzon 461]

If i came off crazy, sorry but when i get in talks about thieves, i get extremely offensive\defensive quick because i've been broken into several times before in the past and i believe all thieves should get life in prison simply because of what's going on in their head to consider theft.  IF you think ever you should steal from someone, then your whole life demeanor doesn't fit in with society and should be locked away.

 

Statistically.. most people's thefts may not add up to a whole lot per incident therefore insurance is fine but when your vehicle is down for fixing what was done, that is time lost and time lost is money lost as well.

 

Any vehicle i have must be protected as best as i know how.

window breaking

door picking

slim jimming

OBGII hacking

towing

 

No method is perfect because they would advertise how to protect it, lol

 

I wish i could prevent vandalism but that's physically impossible.

 

My vehicles get marked all the time.

That's why i never pay attention to cosmetic detail.. it's pointless in my area.

 

It's all about what you have inside where i live and what's inside needs to be protected.

 

On my last car, just breaking the glass cost over $1,000 in elaborate repairs that was done 5yrs ago before i started using laminate.

 

Cost for the glass, tint, scratches on the door, re-custom fabricate graphics on the car and then print them and install them(multi business labor here)

Then car had to be moved back to the dealership to re-spray down protective coating to prevent paint from fading, chipping from typical environmental hazards.

Again.. that's all just from breaking the side glass...

 

That doesn't count the actual theft or vandalism of inside property.

 

It racks up quick.

 

That's my POV because anything done to my vehicles is going to be pricey and pricey protection is used on them.

 

Now since i use laminate on them and other gadgets as well.. if and when they break from an attempted theft.. that's even more money the insurance must pay out but at least they won't have to pay for the vandalism\theft from inside which will potentially save them a LOT of money.

 

 

I 100% understand your POV, let the insurance handle it in the long run because it will be cheaper...

But most of us are crazy with modding our vehicles on this forum.  In the world overall, no, but in this atmosphere and any other car forum, i would expect it to be the same.

Racing, audio, cosmetic car club, etc.. lots of money tied up into vehicles.

 

If we can prevent just 1 internal theft with protection, it would do us a big favor.

 

IT's the downtime i do not like.. Somethings cannot be replaced.. Especially if everything was done yourself..  I wouldn't have the motivation to build the same thing twice if it were destroyed or stolen.

[95Honda 486]

The only reason they keep doing it is the fact that not enough of them are being shot.  Seriously.

[KyleBrown 121]

I like the Ace laminate thing. There's a lot of things you can do to thief proof your car too. Less stickers is always good. But I think my veteran stickers act as a deterrent or maybe I've just been really lucky. I think the whole gps and mobile phone notifications  are awesome. Even if you're nowhere near it, you can notify someone. Or if you're close enough, you can shoot the fuck out of someone. You can adjust your door latches, do things to stop "slim jims" and of course insurance is good too. What I've done is go to a local car audio shop have them document all my gear and give me a "receipt" basically. But I'm good with them. My insurance likes it a lot better than pics and videos. It would also help in compensating you in the the aspect for "install" time, deadener, wire and other things you won't get back if you have a total loss. 

 

 

Really sucks to hear about your car man. I'd loose my mind. 

[dem beats 1,223]

I don't think I would actually shoot someone over my car. Probably not over any property.

Criminals often comment on the fact that running into a home owner with a gun is one of their biggest fears..

[dem beats 1,223]

I find it's all about doing your homework. I live in a fairly nice neighborhood (smaller homes on my street start ~ $250,000 and go up from there, house directly across the street from me would run you between $400k and $500K if it went up for sale), I'm in the lowest crime rate district area in my city, and it is a small subdivision that only has one entrance/exit. Well lit neighborhood with good streetlighting at night. And is no where close to the higher crime rate areas of town. All these factor higher into not getting your car broken into higher than an alarm.

Truth.

[wannabang 13]

Cameras do almost nothing to stop theft. Having your belongings off the road and under a bright light and/or locked door is about the best. Dogs are good too.

Alarms are worthless unless they are so loud they cause physical pain to the people breaking into your stuff.

 

My dad's truck got broke into in his own driveway in the backyard with the gate shut with TWO motion sensor lights in the backyard.

So, no, i do not buy into the light it up argument.

 

You want physical pain?  Some people on here know what i'm about to do to my vehicle.

I don't care how illegal it is.. bill me..  

I currently have 2 130db Directed alarms on the outside of the vehicle...

Soon.. I will have an imported Siren from china rated at 160dB.  cost's $280 so we'll see how well it does. It fires in 2 different directions at once.

 

 

>Statistically it doesn't change the rate of theft, or likelihood of catching the thieves unless it actually is so powerful it slows them down.

In most property/building uses they recommend a silent allarm for many many reasons. One of them being that an alarm escalates the situation for the thieves and they have been shown to cause more property damage.

As it doesn't prevent the initial break in and almost never the theft, it makes the cost of an alarm statistically worthless.

My point isn't that you shouldn't have one, my point is that it in monetary terms it saves less than it costs usually.

 

I seriously do not think you should compare building theft to vehicle theft.

There's a visual difference when it's happening.. Business theft.. nothing looks out of the ordinary unless there are 30 people there.

 

 

Well, they don't exactly stop the robbery, just draw attention to it.  Also, they broke the windows, so unless you have a glass-detecting microphone that triggers the alarm, it won't go off.

 

Cameras would at least catch a face, to make them easier to identify for police to garner a conviction.  Prevention isn't always fool-proof, so the next step is to draw attention and get evidence, which is hard if thieves are breaking glass, they'll usually have gloves, so I'd think cameras are next best option. 

 

All this being said, making the glass less breakable and strengthening the edges is the best step to preventing the theft altogether.

 

Directed makes a glass break sensor but how they pulled yours out.. i doubt it would work since it measures sound. You would need a Prox sensor.  As soon as the glass were to be moved, it would set the alarm off.

 

 

i have proximity sensors  if you come near my car it warns, locks,. and alerts my key chain, once it warns twice it goes off.... alerting me...  then  big mad jon comes with a peace keeper.

 

Literally made me laugh.  Does it ever happen when it warns twice because multiple people just walk by your car in the parking lot?  Does it get annoying?  I thought about it, but decided it might irritate me too much, or have me paranoid when I didn't need to be.

 

I will be using a custom external prox sensor that will not be tied to the actual alarm.

This custom sensor will send a trigger to a timer sensor that will send power to a "light source" warning anyone around the car that they are being watched.

 

And yes... it will physically display those words too.

 

I do not need to know when someone is close to the car but when someone is, that should be enough deterrent.

 

IF they want to hear what 2 130s and a 160 sounds like, go right ahead and play around with it.

 

 

PS- the Ace Laminate is the strongest laminate in the industry according to their motto.

 

Level 3-thickest grade for vehicles.

14mil thick

Tensile Strength- 28,000 PSI

Break Strength- 350 PSI

 

Rated for 1\8" thick glass adhesion.

 

Cost- $8\sqft

I paid $145 to have it installed on 4 doors, 2 small quarter panels and rear curved window.

 

Here is a video showing it's brutalness-

 

 

Security is all about slowing down the suspect.  That's Step 1 security.

I am looking at all angles that a NORMAL suspect would use under limited time to steal or gain access inside.

 

Window break, door picking, slim jimming, OBDII Theft, Battery kill and vehicle theft(not towing) all made near impossible within a few minute time period.

 

some of these are physically impossible such as slim jimming, door picking and OBDII theft

 

Others like towing- go ahead and tow it.. I can track it.

 

 

I'm very crucial about security.

 

My car was broken into 5yrs ago NEXT TO A POLICE STATION.

My dad's truck recently broke into as stated above in full lighted area.

 

I don't go by general recommendations.  

 

When someone tells me if they want in, they'll get in or if they want something, they'll get it.. 

Well, that's like a statement of faith and without anything else to say.. the statement is invalid.

 

If they truly want in or get something, then what is all the ways they will do it?

That's where i attack at every angle.

 

Unless a thief has 20min+, it isn't happening.

 

I'm still working on finishing my security packages but mine is well over $2gs right now.

 

 

Sorry about yours and your dad's rides.  Those alarms sound atrocious!  lol  I may consider the Ace Laminate product in the future, but I think the prox sensor tied to my alarm would be my best plan.  My car sits outside at school, next to my dorm building on a hill (but the school had computers taken from them in an area where crime is literally non-existent, until now).  I'm not too worried about it at school, but I can't watch it for glass break-ins all the time.  It may be a good investment, the laminate, that is.  Not ever worried about someone towing it.  I've never heard of that on the news, nor do I think that goes too quickly, so I'd probably notice it.

 

So the vehicle was on your property? Why isn't homeowners covering this?

So the vehicle was on your property? Why isn't homeowners covering this?

You kind of touch on the point I'm making. It is usually cheeper to insure it than secure it......

in Canada (for example, not sure about how it is in the U.S.), on your property or not, if your vehicle gets broken into it's auto policy (for anything automotive) plus home policy for anything non automotive specific that may be in the vehicle at the time(tools or CD's for example they try to force the claim on your house) so you wind up paying auto deductible for the car stereo and broken car window ($500 for me) plus they try to say the 120 cd's have to be claimed against the house ($1000 deductible)... It's a lot of arguing with them, a lot. Pretty much, insurance companies will put the claims where they want them, and give you as little as they can.

Home deductibles are generally higher, unless you choose to increase your premium quite a bit, due to the fact that there is more value in the home to cover/lose (normally)

 

Exactly as my insurance is handling it.  Because the windows are part of the car, auto is looking at those.  Any additional property that isn't part of the car is being handled by home owners.  Home owners told me that the $1000 deductible is to big for them to pay for what was stolen, duh, so there isn't anything worth claiming.  The auto-adjuster will be out later today.  I have an appointment Friday morning to get the passenger window retinted, too.

 

Thanks, Kyle.  In Ohio, I'm pretty sure the law states you're allowed to hold someone at gunpoint and call the police, but aren't allowed to shoot.  I probably wouldn't shoot them, but in the air, their car, and near them, sure.  I don't have any of my mods claimed on my insurance.  As a college student, I'm still in the "high-risk" category, so insurance is high enough.  The $1000 deductible and the lack of mods is the only thing that allows full-coverage to be around the same as liability was when I was 16. lol  I'm going to see if I can lower my comprehensive deductible, if that's possible.

[dem beats 1,223]

In general if you fire a "warning shot", you could be liable for attempted manslaughter. Even if you fire into the ground.

You probably wouldn't get pegged for it, but it could happen. Most states even specifically mention to never ever fire unless the intent is to kill.

I'm going through my carry permit info today for the first half of the test this evening, so it's fresh in my mind.

[wannabang 13]

In general if you fire a "warning shot", you could be liable for attempted manslaughter. Even if you fire into the ground.

You probably wouldn't get pegged for it, but it could happen. Most states even specifically mention to never ever fire unless the intent is to kill.

I'm going through my carry permit info today for the first half of the test this evening, so it's fresh in my mind.

 

Good to know, gracias.  Although, I do remember a situation in Ohio when a man shot and killed a thief who had robbed his neighbors house while he was running away and used a Texas stand your ground law to justify it.  It held in court, I believe.

[dem beats 1,223]

Yes, stand your ground is a good rule, but even there is recommends you to shoot to kill only. Never shoot to warn.

[95Honda 486]

I have CCP issued from  3 states.  I open carry most of the time here in CO.  I accidentally walk up to someone breaking into my car or anything I own for that matter, and they don't immediately run, they get a 10mm hole.  Period.  I am afraid for my life.  I don't make any qualms about it. 

[dem beats 1,223]

That is just about the only way to handle it 95.

[gprestonmoto 89]

"Rather be judged by 12 than carried by six."

[wannabang 13]

*Update*

 

Appraiser paid me a visit, eloquently pointed out some specks I hadn't noticed, said I'd be covering my full deductible, but insurance wasn't off the hook.  The driver's and passenger's interior door panel are being replaced.  Multiple spots are being painted for scratches.  My tint is being redone.  All I have to do is get the glass shards out of my car, fix my false floor, and troubleshoot my back-up camera...

 

 

"Rather be judged by 12 than carried by six."

 

I would as well, but when coming face to face with me, my family, and my property, it is a jury of one, and I alone will decide what happens to you.  In my case, I'd probably turn you over, though.  You may have a right to be judged by twelve, but I have a right to my property, and when you take my rights away, you are the one that gets stripped of yours.

[ramonR 0]

Damn i feel for you bro