Flatline Audio Amplifier Testing Results.

[Tony Nelson 8]

Ah, I see my post was deleted...interesting

One thing that wont be tolerated in our forum is trolling, negative comments about any company we are not about any of that and it will not be tolerated here.

 

haha.  My post was simply a comparison of your responses to Sean and another vendor here.  Trolling, a little bit, but you still failed to see the point that Sean was making. This forum is not made up of sheep like most others, so posting irrelevant clamp results from a very unscientific test means very little here. I wish you the best of luck with your business.

[IDGAF 0]

If you understand everything then fix your post. VERY simple.

And btw, this isn't about real world versus clamp tests, just about testing methodology and understanding the meaning and results of the test. As I said above, real world it doesn't frickin' matter.

 

You're obviously smarter than the average bear. So tell me... how would you go about testing amplifiers?

 

Say you start an amp company. People are going to want to see "clamps." But since you're a purist... you decide that clamping is archaic and invalid. You use fixed resistance to eliminate phase angle, include uncertainty, only go to significant digits and report that your 2,000w amp is producing maybe 1,400w. But wait... is that at unity? Gotta lop some of that off to account for power factor.

 

Furthermore, say you want to charge $500 for this "2k". Well... now you have a choice. You can call it a 2k that does 1.4k real (or is it apparent?) power. Or you can call it a 1.4k. You know... since you're a purist. People think, "$500 for a 1400w amp?"

 

You talk till you're blue in the face about how the way you test is the only real way and the only accurate measurement in the industry. You try to make people understand why clamping is invalid, current methodology doesn't account for this and that and how and why people are doing it wrong and that you're the only one doing it right.

 

None of that is getting through to people so you're going to resort to citing clamps and what your amp WOULD do if it were clamped traditionally or what competitors' amps would do if they were tested the same way yours is. People aren't going to take your word for it. At this point, you can continue on the high road with crap sales or... acquiesce, swallow your scientific methodology and clamp the damn thing.

 

Or, I suppose you could NOT start your own amp company and continue to criticize the testing methods of all of those who have. Or wait... do you own Zuki?

 

Basically... some people know clamping is flawed. Most don't. And guess what? They don't care. But here's the rub... it's the end user standard of measurement. There would have to be a worldwide paradigm shift to change the way it's done and reported. And that's not happening any time soon.

 

There has to be a reference. Clamping is the reference. Is it wrong? Maybe. But it's the standard. Just think of clamping as specific gravity.

Edited July 16, 2013 by IDGAF

[///M5 2,833]

Lord, read my comments.  I didn't say to do a different test, I didn't offer to do a test as I have no interest in it since chasing 10's of watts is insignificant.  What I said was that it is bullshit to post ANY test results without citing the uncertainty and using inappropriate digits.  To give you a context example, let's say you are measuring my height with a standard tape measure.  Would you then report that I am 6'7.12958928398198349"?  Pretty dumb right?  Obviously getting a tape measure beyond 1/32" of an inch isn't possible and if I needed better than that or wanted to report better than that I'd use a different mechanism.  A much better way of stating this would be 6'7" +/- 1/16"

 

Point is that any test can be posted in a valid way.  In this case obviously whomever did the test has no scientific understanding or were lazy in their results.  Then the OP pasted the prose onto the site.  

 

Yes I made the point clamp tests were stupid and the fun part is that if you actually figured out the uncertainty and posted then you wouldn't even be discussing this with me as you'd all realize that as well.  It is really rather simple.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

The comment that was  made was not about our product it was about another company I don't want that drama here on our forum and if that is a problem then maybe we will not be here long because to me that is not called for on any forum whether here or anywhere else. That is something that I cant stand and if we cant moderate our forum the way that we see fit then what the point of having a moderator at all.

Please do not delete any posts regardless.  Set it to unapproved, or split it out move it to the moderation section and give me or one of the super moderators a heads up.  We delete NOTHING on this site, period.  Edit robot spammers posts, but that is it.  By keeping every post, regardless of content, we can always go back and see. That does not mean no moderation in a section, if you feel there is moderation needed, do it, but we don't delete anything here, it is moved to the mod section and discussed if need be.  This site runs so smoothly member wise, the level of moderation here, outside of spammers, is near zero.  I do far more member moderation on other sites in one week then I have to do here all year.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Ah, I see my post was deleted...interesting

That won't happen again.

[Godsmack 361]

Ah, I see my post was deleted...interesting

That won't happen again.

And this is why SSA is so successful. We allow people to see multiple viewpoints and make a conclusion based upon the information provided. Certainly helps the consumer be ome VERY informed.

J

[shizzzon 461]

I have deleted a few threads before but for good reason..

 

IE- Group Buy over, Sales thread over, etc..

 

Only other time i ever had to delete something besides that was on another forum where a bunch of customers had received information from us that was wrong.

 

This created a frenzy that appeared to never end..

 

I left the thread public for a long time but new customers would come and read it, get wrong information and be disappointed in our product.

So, we had to delete that thread to remove the confusion.  That thread was several pages of wrong information, lol.  It had to go.

 

 

But the way i view things is the more negative feedback a business gets publicly, the better for the business.

 

that way you know exactly what and how to improve those issues without them being kept secret.

 

IF you acknowledge the issues publicly then nothing bad can ever stem from it.

[IDGAF 0]

Lord, read my comments.  I didn't say to do a different test, I didn't offer to do a test as I have no interest in it since chasing 10's of watts is insignificant.  What I said was that it is bullshit to post ANY test results without citing the uncertainty and using inappropriate digits.  To give you a context example, let's say you are measuring my height with a standard tape measure.  Would you then report that I am 6'7.12958928398198349"?  Pretty dumb right?  Obviously getting a tape measure beyond 1/32" of an inch isn't possible and if I needed better than that or wanted to report better than that I'd use a different mechanism.  A much better way of stating this would be 6'7" +/- 1/16"

 

Point is that any test can be posted in a valid way.  In this case obviously whomever did the test has no scientific understanding or were lazy in their results.  Then the OP pasted the prose onto the site.  

 

Yes I made the point clamp tests were stupid and the fun part is that if you actually figured out the uncertainty and posted then you wouldn't even be discussing this with me as you'd all realize that as well.  It is really rather simple.

 

If I were trying to determine whether you were taller than someone who was 6'7.1295892839819834" tall... that last digit becomes significant though, doesn't it?

 

But I understand what you're saying.

 

The results were simply volt*amps from the meters. Known good meters that some organizations use for their "clamped" classes. It's entirely possible to round them off, I suppose. But without actually *knowing* where the signifigance stops and uncertainty starts... why round them?

 

It's easy to nitpick someone else's testing/results without doing any of your own. I yell at Tom Brady all the time about the receiver that was open.

[///M5 2,833]

I do testing for a living. NONE of my customers would EVER accept what was done here.

Just do the exercise, it'll wake you up. Until you do you can say you understand, but you don't.