Sundown x,z 10/ Tantric Sounds hd10

[streetbeater07 0]

Hello guys, I am looking to put together a system with one 10 inch driver in a ported box for my mustang. I am looking for something with around 1500 watts rms, long throw excursion with 30mm or greater xmax. These are the choices that i have found and liked so far:

Sundown x10

Sundown z10

Tantric Sounds hd10

I seen some others like ssa xcon 10 but it is still based on the old style basket and spider setup and while it has an xmax of 31mm, Jacob of Sundown said that these older designs reach xmax and xmech at the same time whereas the new styles like the x,z and tantric subs are designed with way more throw built in so over excursion wont damage the woofer to an extent. Which of these do you think will fit my application and why? Thanks. I am looking to power either sub with a dd m1c, m2b, saz-2500d, or ia20.1.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

I do believe you misunderstood Jacob.

And per the Klippel results that Jacob posted his new softparts hit xmax at 30mm one way.

[KyleBrown 121]

The x/z will have more xmech. But the Z isn't fair to compare to the other drivers. I'd say flip a coin on x10 or HD10. Both are good drivers. 

[edouble101 314]

I do believe you misunderstood Jacob.

And per the Klippel results that Jacob posted his new softparts hit xmax at 30mm one way.

 

If the softparts hit xmax at 30mm then that would equal xmech. The softparts go up to 50mm one-way on the Z.4 IIRC. Linear xmax on the prototype is around 30mm.

 

 

 

Sundown : 

 

This is from our first prototype -- as noted in the image it has a shorter pole extension that we will end up with. I will do more Klippel on final production models... but so far I am very pleased with the new suspension platform as it's linear WAY out past the 30mm range and BL is linear up to ~30mm or so as well even before the final motor.

Le performance also turned out very good on it as well; the taller pole will sacrifice a bit here as the Le shape will be more of a plateau in the outward direction rather than an even parabolic shape. Being a sub-woofer I am willing to take that trade for more linear x-max -- we could see over 35mm linear one-way linear on final production.

Production models in stock format will be stiffer than these so higher Fs and Qts spec as well as lower VAS -- but we will have a ton of spider options available for the new frame platform so we can make just about anything.

 

 

 

[edouble101 314]

The x/z will have more xmech. But the Z isn't fair to compare to the other drivers. I'd say flip a coin on x10 or HD10. Both are good drivers. 

 

 

Really depends on enclosure tuning and goals. If the op plans on playing below tuning the larger xmech on the Z.4 could be and advantage over the X on the same power. 

[streetbeater07 0]

 

I do believe you misunderstood Jacob.

And per the Klippel results that Jacob posted his new softparts hit xmax at 30mm one way.

 

I appreciate your criticism, however, those drivers are linear way past 30mm. FYI.

Edited July 4, 2013 by 07merc

[streetbeater07 0]

 

The x/z will have more xmech. But the Z isn't fair to compare to the other drivers. I'd say flip a coin on x10 or HD10. Both are good drivers. 

 

I know they are rated for different power handling, but they are based off of the same design. The x,z subs are similar in design to the tantric subs where you have the capability of more xmech than xmax.

[streetbeater07 0]

 

I do believe you misunderstood Jacob.

And per the Klippel results that Jacob posted his new softparts hit xmax at 30mm one way.

 

If the softparts hit xmax at 30mm then that would equal xmech. The softparts go up to 50mm one-way on the Z.4 IIRC. Linear xmax on the prototype is around 30mm.

 

 

 

Sundown : 

 

This is from our first prototype -- as noted in the image it has a shorter pole extension that we will end up with. I will do more Klippel on final production models... but so far I am very pleased with the new suspension platform as it's linear WAY out past the 30mm range and BL is linear up to ~30mm or so as well even before the final motor.

Le performance also turned out very good on it as well; the taller pole will sacrifice a bit here as the Le shape will be more of a plateau in the outward direction rather than an even parabolic shape. Being a sub-woofer I am willing to take that trade for more linear x-max -- we could see over 35mm linear one-way linear on final production.

Production models in stock format will be stiffer than these so higher Fs and Qts spec as well as lower VAS -- but we will have a ton of spider options available for the new frame platform so we can make just about anything.

 

 

 

[url=http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/BL_CURVE/Klippel/Zv4_Klippel_OG_15_Prototype.jpg]http://www.sundownaudio.com/misc/BL_CURVE/Klippel/Zv4_Klippel_OG_15_Prototype.jpg[/url]

 

Thank you for backing my research with fact. I think the x is capable of 50mm and the z is 62.5! Wowzer

Edited July 4, 2013 by 07merc

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

I do believe you misunderstood Jacob.

And per the Klippel results that Jacob posted his new softparts hit xmax at 30mm one way.

 

If the softparts hit xmax at 30mm then that would equal xmech. The softparts go up to 50mm one-way on the Z.4 IIRC. Linear xmax on the prototype is around 30mm.

 

 

> 

 

Sundown : 

 

This is from our first prototype -- as noted in the image it has a shorter pole extension that we will end up with. I will do more Klippel on final production models... but so far I am very pleased with the new suspension platform as it's linear WAY out past the 30mm range and BL is linear up to ~30mm or so as well even before the final motor.

Le performance also turned out very good on it as well; the taller pole will sacrifice a bit here as the Le shape will be more of a plateau in the outward direction rather than an even parabolic shape. Being a sub-woofer I am willing to take that trade for more linear x-max -- we could see over 35mm linear one-way linear on final production.

Production models in stock format will be stiffer than these so higher Fs and Qts spec as well as lower VAS -- but we will have a ton of spider options available for the new frame platform so we can make just about anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No Xmech is the physical limit. Per these graphs they are the end of the curve or ~39 each way.  In other words the drivers "locked up" at these points.   The xmax is the black areas of the curves.  You are looking at three componets:  BL which is 70% = xmax   Inductance which is 10% and mechanical compliance of the suspension/suround which is 50%.  when any of these points are hit the driver has hit xmax or 20 percent distortion which is the point where audible distortion is found.  The numeric values of each are located at the very top right hand corner.  

 

Overall its a very balanced driver.  Both motor and soft parts hit their limits at the exact point 30.5mm one way xmax.   

 

But as quoted this may not be a final product.  Maybe Jacob is re engineering the softparts to reach over 35mm one way.  If I have to guess I'd say the reason for the limit on the softparts is from the spider.  Is has a very low creep factor which is showed by the gentle curve on the CMS chart.  If it was the surround hitting limits the curve would get exponentially curved towards the ends.

[streetbeater07 0]

 

The x/z will have more xmech. But the Z isn't fair to compare to the other drivers. I'd say flip a coin on x10 or HD10. Both are good drivers. 

 

 

Really depends on enclosure tuning and goals. If the op plans on playing below tuning the larger xmech on the Z.4 could be and advantage over the X on the same power. 

 

I do not plan on playing below tuning intentionally, however, in the event that it does happen, i do not want to damage my driver. I will set amp gains, ssf, and port tuning accordingly. i want to give the driver the best possible environment for it to perform the duties it was designed for. I am looking for the one that fits my application the best. i do not want to use something that is not intended for my purpose. I am looking for loud, low, good power handling, and sound extremely good while doing so. I want to tune 28-30hz 1.5cu.ft. with 16sq.in of port area per cube.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

 

I do believe you misunderstood Jacob.

And per the Klippel results that Jacob posted his new softparts hit xmax at 30mm one way.

 

I appreciate your criticism, however, you should do your research before typing. Those drivers are linear way past 30mm. FYI.

As I said per results he posted.  And per them (the results above) they are not.  As I have already said he may have revisions, but if so there have been none posted.

[streetbeater07 0]

 

 

I do believe you misunderstood Jacob.

And per the Klippel results that Jacob posted his new softparts hit xmax at 30mm one way.

 

I appreciate your criticism, however, you should do your research before typing. Those drivers are linear way past 30mm. FYI.

As I said per results he posted.  And per them (the results above) they are not.  As I have already said he may have revisions, but if so there have been none posted.

 

Let's see if we can get Jacob to chime in on this and clarify some of these renderings. I am not a loudspeaker designer so I cannot legitimately argue specs.

[ricksi30 923]

 I am not a loudspeaker designer so I cannot legitimately argue specs.

Then maybe YOU should do your research before you type.

[streetbeater07 0]

 I am not a loudspeaker designer so I cannot legitimately argue specs.

Then maybe YOU should do your research before you type.

I did. The specs are posted. I was stating what i read and saw, not what I thought. Maybe YOU should not comment on this thread if you do not have anything positive to contribute. Sir. 

[KyleBrown 121]

I thought they were putting a longer coil in the final production. But with the longer coil, the mechanical clearance goes does down and I do believe on the X-line the coil can hit the back plate.

 

If you don't have the power, the Z series won't be for you. Honestly everything shows it to be a 2,000rms driver. Easily more if you know what to do.

 

 

As I said about either will work well. I'm pretty sure you can get a HD10 cheaper too.  

[Notorious97200 339]

Where can I find info about the X series ?

Are they on the market ?

[streetbeater07 0]

Where can I find info about the X series ?

Are they on the market ?

You can go to the ssa store under the sundown subs category and read the description. They are scheduled to arrive rhis month.