dd vs. new re

[CBFryman 2]

in that case we need a head to head comparison... NOW!

[mrray13 30]

in that case we need a head to head comparison... NOW!

well, i know how a s18x performs...i just traded mine to my employer for stuff unnamed yet. he jsut reconed it to a dual 2 to better suit his amp. his escalade ROCKS!!

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

can't imagine the box needed for the new XXX 18

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

in the vote, not much love for the DD's

[CBFryman 2]

it's TS params jsut doenst lend itself to low end extension

[dirtysouthboss 0]

after using both RE and DD the question is easy. i have owned the XXX and SX and installed just about even sub they made. the 9515 is def not a lowend monster, but it does get sick loud. i know a few people doing well over 150 with 2 15s and 1200 PER. one guy by the name of typerbass does 150+@39hz legal with only a 2500D to both.

you have to understand motor topogoly somewhat to make an informed decision.

you want ported?

you want it to be very peaky or just a littel boost around 30hz?

you want it to sound good?

how much power you have?

how much space you have?

building a wall actually HURTS low frequency efficiency so proper tuning is a must as well and the right woofer for the aligment.

while i think you could find a better woofer than the 9515 for this case the 9515 is def no slouch. people put up mid 150s with daily tuned to 9515 with 4K per! and this is mostly stock installs.

on the otehr hand i would strongly recommend the DD 3515s or stereo integrity mad D2 15s.

3 of those woofers will eat you alive. the mags sound a little more nautral but the DDs try to rip your head off.

my vote

3 3515s in 13 tuned to 30 with Alot of port area 300 or so.

or

3 mag D2 15 is 10.5 tuned to 28 with A lot of port area like at least 250in^2 the more you give them the louder the low stuff becomes

both the the mag and 35 will take 2 K daily, but the mag has a suspension that allows it to be sensitive and decently efficient os make sure your subsonic is on @ 28 hz other wise you will bottom the mags out. its NOT a big deal with the mag but it is possible and its just a precaution. same with the 3515s.

i had a XXX and SX they where avarge woofers with decent build quatitly. the XXX was pretty impressive but the coils couldn't handle the power, and i felt that the dampning wasn't high enought to go ported, my SX 18 slamed pretty hard ported, but i just wasn't very impressed with the build of it. after a while to spyders broke down and when it really startd to get off it got hot. 1200 clean was fine but 1500 it didn't want much more.

as for as the new XXX. ill stick to my standard over hung topology as the suspension of design doesn't allow much efficenty and to get that amount of throw you need sick power.

[CBFryman 2]

SX wasnt ment to tak much more than 1000w

I agree wit the new xxx comments. the more i read about it and hear about it the more it seems like something to keep the RE bonor going as the made the horrendously fast business switch.

However, ive used DD3500's as well and from what ive heard about the mag's i'd take theos before the 3500's. they are nice drivers but they are still DD's which meanst they where built with SPL competitions in mind. Not chest thumping low end.

What is nice about my Ava is that it uses a progressive spyder so it doenst fully unload untill a full half octave below tuning.

[dirtysouthboss 0]

SX wasnt ment to tak much more than 1000w

I agree wit the new xxx comments. the more i read about it and hear about it the more it seems like something to keep the RE bonor going as the made the horrendously fast business switch.

However, ive used DD3500's as well and from what ive heard about the mag's i'd take theos before the 3500's. they are nice drivers but they are still DD's which meanst they where built with SPL competitions in mind. Not chest thumping low end.

What is nice about my Ava is that it uses a progressive spyder so it doenst fully unload untill a full half octave below tuning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

what size and tune box you use the 3500s in? the 3500 after break in get VERY low. i could easy get them down to 20hz and it would get sick loud. they didn't really sound bad etiher, excpet there slighly punch in the wrong aligmetns which isn't really a bad thing. there prtty silimar to the mags but they need a larger box. 4-4.5 works good IMO. you are talking about the D series right?

[CBFryman 2]

they where the older 3500's. we used them for local competitions in my freinds CRX. but we also tried them out daily. it was the same box that we had an alpine Type R in before (before we did the th order for the alpine, which wanted in the crx for one sub with 500w) i dont remember the specs but it was daily to alpines specs. it was an 02-03ish type R i think. that was 3-4yrs ago.

[dirtysouthboss 0]

they where the older 3500's. we used them for local competitions in my freinds CRX. but we also tried them out daily. it was the same box that we had an alpine Type R in before (before we did the th order for the alpine, which wanted in the crx for one sub with 500w) i dont remember the specs but it was daily to alpines specs. it was an 02-03ish type R i think. that was 3-4yrs ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the new 3500s are sick! they have around 20mm xmax(which is plenty for ported!) and they handle about 2K music all day long. they have a new suspension and a new motor. IMO there loud as the old D series 9500 with A lot better lowend. they need about 4 cubes but 4.5 for extended lowend doesn't hurt. with 4 tuned to 32 you get a F3 of about 29hz with a 4.5 tuned to 30hz you get a lightly bigger peak with a F3 of about 28hz. if thats not low end 5 tuned to 28 does very very good too, but its really not need as the output on these woofer is SICK.

I heard a freinds 2 mag 15s in the recommend box and i LOVED them, he was having some h/u problems but even with abut 600 watts tehy where nicely loud and sound excellent! if you want a slightly better sounding woofer that get loud as piss MAG if you want something stupid stick loud that doesn't sound bad 3515.

[dirtysouthboss 0]

also might i recommend a Transmission line box? i promise you 2 3515s or 2 mags in a TL and you won't need but about 1000 watts,lol

its pretty easy, break in the driver in free air, the find the FS. when you know the FS you build the box. use the same port area as SD and make sure you have the right lenght of port and you will notice lowend efficiency like no other. i had 2 punch HE2s in a TL and people thought it was 2 18s. hehe for 2 3515s you could do 250in^2 or port area 130in long! i promise you when you hear them you will chit yourself. you will need about 21-22 cubes. port 8Wx30Hx130D you don't need a box the port is the box! thats why you use the same port area as SD. since you need 14W the last section should start @ 9in wide a slowly increase to 14W so you can fit the woofers in the box. it really doesn't affect tune as its alreadly so efficient you won't notice. also the last section should be directly behind the woofer starting on the same plain as the woofers.

[CBFryman 2]

i know how Transmission Lines work

it was SPL setups, we werent all that advanced then either.

I sitl have a hard time beleiveing that even the new 3500's are on the level with the Magnums with all the kudos everyone gives the mags. I need more money to play with more subs.

[dirtysouthboss 0]

i know how Transmission Lines work

it was SPL setups, we werent all that advanced then either.

I sitl have a hard time beleiveing that even the new 3500's are on the level with the Magnums with all the kudos everyone gives the mags. I need more money to play with more subs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it doesn't sound as good but it sure gets loud as fudge. they have alto more xmag and xsus. they have 3in peak to peak. also the new 250 does too! they realyl step up the new 3500s people have put 2K daily to them and people are hitting 150s with 2 woofers and 1200 per. ther def worth looking into.

[MuddinXJ 0]

i hate to say it but for ultra low lows and ridiculously loud I would go with either an 18" MT w/ stiff spiders and quad 1 ohm coils, the HD18s when they come out, or DD9917s.

[dave_Edwards 1]

am I reading this right--------a TL enclosure for SPL-----come on-----and for SPL-----RE MT for teh win!!!

[JimJ 11]

am I reading this right--------a TL enclosure for SPL-----come on-

I was thinking the same thing...there are several advantages to a quarter-wave pipe, but SPL isn't one of them

They improve efficiency somewhat over a bass reflex, but they're not peaky at all if built and tested correctly. Would make a bad choice for an SPL setup.

[007 0]

what is this "dry XBL2 sound"-----is it like "processed sound"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"dry xbl^2" as in being so clean as to not have the "warmth" that most typical drivers have from the distortion inherient in their design.

personally, it wasn't so much that as that the rl-p jsut flat out dropped lower, was just as crisp and fast and almost as loud for less money. and the rl-p isn't as box picky.

and tom, your right, the new XXX is SG technology, not xbl^2. if believe it's a version of sorts of LMS (they can't use LMT anymore)

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no, the xxx doest use our coil... at least they better not, lol.

[mrray13 30]

what is this "dry XBL2 sound"-----is it like "processed sound"?

"dry xbl^2" as in being so clean as to not have the "warmth" that most typical drivers have from the distortion inherient in their design.

personally, it wasn't so much that as that the rl-p jsut flat out dropped lower, was just as crisp and fast and almost as loud for less money. and the rl-p isn't as box picky.

and tom, your right, the new XXX is SG technology, not xbl^2. if believe it's a version of sorts of LMS (they can't use LMT anymore)

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

no, the xxx doest use our coil... at least they better not, lol.

no, not saying they are using your coil, but rather doing it with the motor. and i might be wrong, but after reading what split gap was, it seemed to me to be a similiar approach to what the LMS does, only not varying coil thickness, but rather splitting the motor to achieve the higher bl as the coil moves.

am i even close?

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[dirtysouthboss 0]

am I reading this right--------a TL enclosure for SPL-----come on-----and for SPL-----RE MT for teh win!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1 RE MT and stiff spyders= less low frequency efficiency. none of the drivers you named are realy great lowend drivers.

also many many many installs are TL its not a normal TL, but its the same purpose. the box is designed around the res frequency of the car using the wavelength on the specific frequency so tchinally it is a TL box just without ports the box IS the port. TL boxes designed correctly will "meter" louder than a ported boxes you justh have to get it phased in at the dash. 1 because its in perfect phase betwen the front and rear wave, and 2 @ that resonance the systems efficency its much greater than a normal ported box. not to mention that there are little to no restrictions on air flow. have you seen mike jones's install? he does exactly what i just said and has one of the loudest cars ever.

if you wnat sick lowend i would go with a ported box(so pretty low QES under .42) and a decently low FS around 25-30hz.

the mag D2s or 3515s will rock your world. i have desined very loud TL boxes. hell i done a 144 on the TL with 2 punch he2 10s and 1K @ 36hz in a tail blazer. people ca barely get that with 2 12s and 2k @ 45-50 much less 36 so i ain't trippin.

[dirtysouthboss 0]

what is this "dry XBL2 sound"-----is it like "processed sound"?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"dry xbl^2" as in being so clean as to not have the "warmth" that most typical drivers have from the distortion inherient in their design.

personally, it wasn't so much that as that the rl-p jsut flat out dropped lower, was just as crisp and fast and almost as loud for less money. and the rl-p isn't as box picky.

and tom, your right, the new XXX is SG technology, not xbl^2. if believe it's a version of sorts of LMS (they can't use LMT anymore)

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no, the xxx doest use our coil... at least they better not, lol.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

no, not saying they are using your coil, but rather doing it with the motor. and i might be wrong, but after reading what split gap was, it seemed to me to be a similiar approach to what the LMS does, only not varying coil thickness, but rather splitting the motor to achieve the higher bl as the coil moves.

am i even close?

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

its very very simple. instead of using one coil and limiting the topplate height for a high xmax, they use 2 coils and one topplate so the foward stroke uses the top coil and the rear stroke uses the bottom coil. NO matter what topologly you use you sacrfice efficiency for xmax. XBL,split coil, lmt all of them do so. i have something that is similar to split coil and XBL but its even better IMO.after testing and building the new coils ill expalin it, but untill then i won't say any more. as sone one will try to beat me to a patient.

Edited May 26, 2006 by dirtysouthboss

[trinitymatt 0]

OK, take a DD 9500 seies, tune a 4-5 cu. ft. box to 30-35 hz, have awesome SQ out of it. and still hit around 148-149 db in a stock class sedan with everything in the trunk. The DD's are untouchable, take a good look at the Treo CSX, then my avitar, notice any similarities? How could you honestly give any props to a company that merely clones a product? as for audioque, the HD serious is merely a 9500 series DD without the free flow cooling, and with different spiders. this company was started by the late Alice Sandu's husband, yes she created DD. This is all a family business, and they do it very well.