dd vs. new re

[dave_Edwards 1]

what is this "dry XBL2 sound"-----is it like "processed sound"?

[mrray13 30]

what is this "dry XBL2 sound"-----is it like "processed sound"?

"dry xbl^2" as in being so clean as to not have the "warmth" that most typical drivers have from the distortion inherient in their design.

personally, it wasn't so much that as that the rl-p jsut flat out dropped lower, was just as crisp and fast and almost as loud for less money. and the rl-p isn't as box picky.

and tom, your right, the new XXX is SG technology, not xbl^2. if believe it's a version of sorts of LMS (they can't use LMT anymore)

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Tirefryr 1,742]

The Treos are still bangin to this day Kent.

And Noah, chill out mang!

[n4te0ne 0]

wow this threads gettin intense. check all weapons at the door, i'm really leanin towards the l7s right now. 4 15s in a wall. although someone said at a shop i visited today that the round version has the exact same motor stucture and that.. and you can direct quote that.. i dunno much about kicker.. i'd go with treo ssx 18s, but i cant get a low price on them to afford amps to power the damn things

[mrray13 30]

wow this threads gettin intense. check all weapons at the door, i'm really leanin towards the l7s right now. 4 15s in a wall. although someone said at a shop i visited today that the round version has the exact same motor stucture and that.. and you can direct quote that.. i dunno much about kicker.. i'd go with treo ssx 18s, but i cant get a low price on them to afford amps to power the damn things

the NEW FOR 06 kicker CSX is indeed a L7 motor with a compvr cone, basiclly. but like i just mentioned, it's new for this year. and head to head with an 06 L7, it's not as loud. it has the same throw with less cone area.

4 15" L7's would be intense!!

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Eldorado 0]

uhmm....

36" Audiobahn should have the loudest low end from them all.

[CBFryman 2]

hmmm what did i vote for...

DD is SPL, not sub 30Hz

[mrray13 30]

  not an all out SPL driver much like the SoloX.

while that was the inital prupose of the solo, it's not anymore. even kicker's dealer's book just lists it as their "premium" woofer. it's not an sq woofer, or even a sql woofer, but you can get it there. for what it is, it is not to be underestimated in the sq department.

As for Square vs Round. simple physics says that a round flat piston would be best for repoduceing sound. However flat pistons arent strong when subjected to pressure compared to a conical piston, which is why most drivers used a "Cone" even though it is more like a dome. But that isnt my point, my point is that from my experence (even isntalls that would be considered "SQ") older L5's and L7's had a different, almost distorted, sound to them. Much like SPL speakers with short peaky BL x Xmax curves ment for short, high pressure strokes around 50Hz. Only not quite. I dont know if it was the motor or the cone but i would tend to think it was the cone because ive heard the old round SoloX's and they sounded great, especially for their time. My experence with kicker's square drivers is everything from a single L7 sealed to kicker's specs to a single L7 ported to 4 L510's (i think) ported in a fart box. All had a similar "distorted" sound to them. But then agian these where the older '03-'04 ish modles. So much good karma about the '05 modles and even more about the '06 that it could have changed.

Anyway, i too would like to see a SoloX 18 vs '06 XXX 18. RL-P 18 is what i would like to see since they do use a TC9 (i think) and that would be easier for me to get my TC9 reconed to an 18 with out RE charging me $150 because they would have to align the coil in the gap and yadda yadda yadda.

As for XBL^2 being "Dry", i dont have any problem with my Ava18 or any other XBL drivers ive heard (old XXX and Brahma MKII). Dan's responce to people calling XBL^2 dry is that it's distortion is so low that some XBL drivers actually lack the "musical" distortion that even top of the line SQ drivers like the w7 are famos for.

square vs round and physics..well, i'm not that intelligent. yet what i do know is this, i can care less what paper has to say about anything in the subwoofer world. while it's a basis, and nothing more, it's not going to tell you what will happen when the woofer meets the enclosure/car/power. and L5'and 7's don't have a built in distortion. any year model. in the proper install, they will run with just about any sub out there in the sq department. but it is indeed install dependant.

we agree on the 18" war..lol...solo x vs xxx vs any other one that wants to show up...lol...

and xbl^2 being dry is just that..it's lacking the musical distortion (or however you wnt to word it) that alot of people are accustomed too. but other toplogies, if built right, do the exact same thing. yet, they aren't described as dry. the rl-s for instance. i couldn't get a lick of distortion outa it, yet it was very pleasing to the ear. the rl-p more than hang with the xxx, wasn't quite as loud, but dropped a bunch lower.

i guess what i'm trying to say is, what we all know, is that sq is subjective. what sounds good to me may not sound good to you. and regardless of brand, regardless of topology, the sub still depends on it's install.

85% install, 10% product, 5% beer...the greatest formula on earth!

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[CBFryman 2]

while that was the inital prupose of the solo, it's not anymore. even kicker's dealer's book just lists it as their "premium" woofer. it's not an sq woofer, or even a sql woofer, but you can get it there. for what it is, it is not to be underestimated in the sq department.

we agree on the 18" war..lol...solo x vs xxx vs any other one that wants to show up...lol...

i guess what i'm trying to say is, what we all know, is that sq is subjective. what sounds good to me may not sound good to you. and regardless of brand, regardless of topology, the sub still depends on it's install.

85% install, 10% product, 5% beer...the greatest formula on earth!

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i'd give it a bit more to Product...even with some seriosuly chitty box with leaks and no bracing a driver like new (or old) XXX with propwer power and electrical system will almost always outwang any pyle driver in any box with pyle amps and electrical system doesnt matter because a pyle amp will never draw enough current to hurt almost any electrical system...

and that is what i ment about the SoloX... not SPL, Not SQL, Not SQ...it is what you want it to be. Where as most of DD's drivers, the MT, and from what ive heard about the DP... they lack musical clarity and are very peaking with their responce, even in enclosrues that are geared for "SQ"

[CBFryman 2]

and before someone jumps out at me, DD's can sound good, but you can stil ltell they are geared for SPL/Loudness, especially in the 3500 series up.

[Eldorado 0]

My DD mids sound like poop.

[CBFryman 2]

lol

[mrray13 30]

i'd give it a bit more to Product...even with some seriosuly chitty box with leaks and no bracing a driver like new (or old) XXX with propwer power and electrical system will almost always outwang any pyle driver in any box with pyle amps and electrical system doesnt matter because a pyle amp will never draw enough current to hurt almost any electrical system...

i'd almost agree with you..almost. but take any superwoofer you want, put it in that leaky, way wrong box and watch it fall on it's face. put a pyle in the absolute best enviroment, and it'll walk that superwoofer, at least in sq. will it last as long? nope, quality of product. but for those few brief minutes one would be able to brag about his funky pups going boom like so......

and i hope you understand i'm not jumping out at ya.

btw, i found the remore for the eclipse. i'll try to get off my lazy ass and get it mailed to ya..lol....it needs a new battery.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[CBFryman 2]

shwate, i tore my rotary cup i think, between wakeboarding after a 4month off season and doing reps with 135 when my arm kept telling me "no, not today you dumb fudge" i cant lift my arm past straight out with out shearing pain... so i dunno when i will even be able to get it installed, no rush...

yeah and i understand. SQ is almost 90% install and 9% beer and 1% product...only 1% because you just have to have the product.

[mrray13 30]

remote will be mailed tomorrow! already inthe box..just gotta wait for the mailman...

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[cougarballa2k5 0]

I didn't read this whole thread but I would put money on the new XXX taking out a solox on the lows any day of the week. Displacement is god at low frequencies. 54mm of xmax is god's right hand.

[mrray13 30]

I didn't read this whole thread but I would put money on the new XXX taking out a solox on the lows any day of the week.  Displacement is god at low frequencies.  54mm of xmax is god's right hand.

ok...254in^2 of cone (xxx) vs 324in^2 (s18x) advantage s18x

54mm xmax (xxx) vs 24.5mm (s18x) advantage xxx

i know there is some math equation to figure out total displacement. but it's looking like a good battle so far. and i know that the solo x has a fs quite a bit lower, but dunno if that helps it out or not.

i'd like to see a h2h...and you got to remember, the s8x is "old" now..lol...so who knows what's on the horizon for them.

and if the xxx is better, kewl. even the old version is a nice sub.

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[CBFryman 2]

XXX 18 total displacement: 17.6l (WOW)

SoloX total Displacement: 10.24l

and both of thoes are incorrect because actualy SD wasnt used...however the advantage is clearly ot the XXX

But, since we are porting, even down low, Xmax isnt the determining factor. it helps though.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

The numbers are pointless really. Will the application need and/or yield full Xmax? ANd even with Xmax, there is still added displacement potential, albiet not linear.

No real way to tell, and no sense in even arguing it. Engineers punch in some numbers and it works on paper. Incorporate it into reality, and it doesn't always work.

One may have more potential than another, but it doesn't matter if it's not needed or will/can be used.

[JimJ 11]

However flat pistons arent strong when subjected to pressure compared to a conical piston, which is why most drivers used a "Cone" even though it is more like a dome.

Moreso than the physics of sound, ease of construction is probably a big part of why you don't see tons of true flat coned speakers out there. It's tough to get a triple joint to hold up under those kinds of stresses, as eD found out with the first run of 15A's. The joints on a conical driver are much less demanding...

[mrray13 30]

No real way to tell, and no sense in even arguing it.  Engineers punch in some numbers and it works on paper.  Incorporate it into reality, and it doesn't always work.

i couldn't have said it better. but for the sake of the arguement, i thought a h2h of the numbers everyone looks at would be somewhat kewl.

anyway...i'd still run the s18x. why? because the damn thing is just way too kewl, loud, insanely low and freakishly big. and it don't have a bandwagon, except in the lanes where it counts. (well, solo x's in general)

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

I am curious to see if someone does a head to head on the new MX verses out going XXX

[CBFryman 2]

The numbers are pointless really.  Will the application need and/or yield full Xmax?  ANd even with Xmax, there is still added displacement potential, albiet not linear.

No real way to tell, and no sense in even arguing it.  Engineers punch in some numbers and it works on paper.  Incorporate it into reality, and it doesn't always work.

One may have more potential than another, but it doesn't matter if it's not needed or will/can be used.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i wasnt argueing either way. I was calculating displacement since Mrray was too lazy

In an example, Ava18 only has 27mm Xmax, old XXX had 32...both with XBL..old XXX had alot higher power hanlding as well. Ava is louder watt for watt and, despite the XXX being a low end driver, the Ava is still capeable of getting louder lower.

SI Mag is louder than the old XXX, alot less Xmax

SX is louder than the old XXX. a wole dB in most casses even in drop in application, even less Xmax. SX is a hell of alot louder than the SE... similar Xmax.

Xmax is really only the determining factor if you are going sealed/IB and you have the potential to use it to its full capeability.

[CBFryman 2]

anyway...i'd still run the s18x. why? because the damn thing is just way too kewl, loud, insanely low and freakishly big. and it don't have a bandwagon, except in the lanes where it counts. (well, solo x's in general)

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would run the XXX18... RE isnt realy popular here and the SoloX 18 the local shop has...they want 1,200 for it...PFFT! i can buy my XXX and my amp for that much

[mrray13 30]

anyway...i'd still run the s18x. why? because the damn thing is just way too kewl, loud, insanely low and freakishly big. and it don't have a bandwagon, except in the lanes where it counts. (well, solo x's in general)

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I would run the XXX18... RE isnt realy popular here and the SoloX 18 the local shop has...they want 1,200 for it...PFFT! i can buy my XXX and my amp for that much

welp, i can get them for about $750 BNIB...well, a little less if i'm extra nice..lol...

hehe

wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee