I want to widen my soundstage

[edouble101 314]

Ehh equipment issues I didn't foresee. My desktop crapped out and my laptop doesn't have the necessary hardware. I did not take any PC measurements yesterday or today. I have a Tascam US-122MKII on order and measurements will begin once I get it.

[///M5 2,833]

Impulse is your friend.

One other warning (not tested the Tascam) I've seen a ton of phase variance in sound cards from channel to channel and source to input. FUN to compensate for.

[Randal Johnson 544]

 

I also meet with a MECA multi champion who was very helpful in the tuning process. 

I am considering redoing my a-pillars.

Do you compete MECA ?? If so and if you don't mind me asking ... What class do you compete in ??

I'm assuming that you would be in Modified Class. If you do redo you A-pillars to more of an on-axis style, you know that you will be moving up in classes to MODDEX or Extreme ... depending on the A-pillars.

[edouble101 314]

I also meet with a MECA multi champion who was very helpful in the tuning process. 

I am considering redoing my a-pillars.

Do you compete MECA ?? If so and if you don't mind me asking ... What class do you compete in ??

I'm assuming that you would be in Modified Class. If you do redo you A-pillars to more of an on-axis style, you know that you will be moving up in classes to MODDEX or Extreme ... depending on the A-pillars.

 

 

I will be placed in Modex. It doesnt matter to me what class I am in. There are so few shows in the tri-state are that competing will probably never be anything too serious. 

[edouble101 314]

I lied about not taking any measurements. I did take a few fr readings. I should have said that I did not take any impulse, t/a or decay measurements.

 

Here is the midbass and midrange graphs together. Blue line left midrange, red line right midrange. Purple is left midbass, green is right midbass. Midrange are crossed at 100-8k and misbass are crossed at 20-2k. Noise floor is high due to the fan on my KS900.6. It will not be as high next time.

 

 

It looks as though I could cross the midrange lower although I do not know the distortion plot yet. Crossed at 160hz@18db and playing a 150hz test tone at near max volume creates a nasty panel resonance in the a-pillar. I might need to treat that.

 

Full system plot (again high noise floor) with individual paired drivers plots. 

Same xover as before only midbass low pass at 160hz@24 db and midrange high pass at 160@18db.

 

[edouble101 314]

The above graphs are all 6 averages taken around the driver's side head rest with 1/3 smoothing.

[Randal Johnson 544]

edouble101, on 28 May 2013 - 03:37, said:

Cablguy184, on 27 May 2013 - 21:31, said:

edouble101, on 25 May 2013 - 17:06, said:

I also meet with a MECA multi champion who was very helpful in the tuning process.

I am considering redoing my a-pillars.

Do you compete MECA ?? If so and if you don't mind me asking ... What class do you compete in ??

I'm assuming that you would be in Modified Class. If you do redo you A-pillars to more of an on-axis style, you know that you will be moving up in classes to MODDEX or Extreme ... depending on the A-pillars.

I will be placed in Modex. It doesnt matter to me what class I am in. There are so few shows in the tri-state are that competing will probably never be anything too serious.

Cool thanks !!!

I'm hoping that my car (49 Ford) gets to stay in MODDEX ... Hope to see you in the lanes brother !!!

Best of luck with your upgrade !!!

I do have a question ... Did you say that you was planning to re-angle your mids and leave your tweeters similar to the way you have them now ?? My apologies if this was already posted and I missed it ...

[edouble101 314]

Cool thanks !!!

I'm hoping that my car (49 Ford) gets to stay in MODDEX ... Hope to see you in the lanes brother !!!

Best of luck with your upgrade !!

I do have a question ... Did you say that you was planning to re-angle your mids and leave your tweeters similar to the way you have them now ?? My apologies if this was already posted and I missed it ...

If I do change my apillars I would like to use a tweeter that has less sibilance (pronounced "s" sound in female voices) than the LGP's that I have now. Using the LGP's on-axis may make sibilance worse, idk. I like the small format (physical size) of the LGP's. The Morel 4" mids I have probably have less distortion than the JL's I am using now. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find Klippel graphs for the Morel's.

Good luck to you too!

Edited June 8, 2013 by edouble101

[Randal Johnson 544]

Hey man, just for shits and giggles ... Get a thick towel and lay on your dash and retest for those "s"s in spanish harlem ... Please come back and tell me what you find ...

[edouble101 314]

Hey man, just for shits and giggles ... Get a thick towel and lay on your dash and retest for those "s"s in spanish harlem ... Please come back and tell me what you find ...

Yeah you know exactly what song I was thinking about!!! Sounds great in my car other than exaggerated simblance.

I already have a dash mat. What would towels do?

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Cool thanks !!!

I'm hoping that my car (49 Ford) gets to stay in MODDEX ... Hope to see you in the lanes brother !!!

Best of luck with your upgrade !!

I do have a question ... Did you say that you was planning to re-angle your mids and leave your tweeters similar to the way you have them now ?? My apologies if this was already posted and I missed it ...

If I do change my apillars I would like to use a tweeter that has less simblance (pronounced "s" sound in female voices) than the LGP's that I have now. Using the LGP's on-axis may make simblance worse, idk. I like the small format (physical size) of the LGP's. The Morel 4" mids I have probably have less distortion than the JL's I am using now. Unfortunately I haven't been able to find Klippel graphs for the Morel's.

Good luck to you too!

Go to Voice Coils magazine's website and sign up. Once you register you can access all past editions online. Vance has tested damn near every speaker on the planet. Along with Vance's tests and simulations he also posts Klippel results from Pat Turmire and normally goes into good detail explaining everything.

[Randal Johnson 544]

Hey man, just for shits and giggles ... Get a thick towel and lay on your dash and retest for those "s"s in spanish harlem ... Please come back and tell me what you find ...

Yeah you know exactly what song I was thinking about!!! Sounds great in my car other than exaggerated simblance.

I already have a dash mat. What would towels do?

Also, while you are testing ... Bring your sun visors straight down and see if that don't "tweek" the Chesky narrator some. Time alignment and EQ normally takes care of this, but every little adjustment helps ...

[///M5 2,833]

That isn't the tweeter, but the response in car. Beauty of that tweet ia its off axis response which doesn't help on axis.

Btw 6 averages for noise isn't near enough. I'd also view it in narrow band as well. Thirds simulate the ear but hide anomalies.

Good luck with it. Hope to see some ta and other results when I return from vacation in a couple weeks.

[edouble101 314]

Go to Voice Coils magazine's website and sign up. Once you register you can access all past editions online. Vance has tested damn near every speaker on the planet. Along with Vance's tests and simulations he also posts Klippel results from Pat Turmire and normally goes into good detail explaining everything.

Thanks I will check that out.

[edouble101 314]

That isn't the tweeter, but the response in car. Beauty of that tweet ia its off axis response which doesn't help on axis.

Btw 6 averages for noise isn't near enough. I'd also view it in narrow band as well. Thirds simulate the ear but hide anomalies.

Good luck with it. Hope to see some ta and other results when I return from vacation in a couple weeks.

I am anxious to get ta dialed in a go from there.

Enjoy your vacation.

[Impious 1,476]

Are your FR measurements gated at all or just an open measurement?

[edouble101 314]

Are your FR measurements gated at all or just an open measurement?

 

I did not take an impulse measurement. I was unable to create loopback with my laptop. I originally planned on using my desktop but I was having hardware issues with it as well. When Tascam US-122 arrives I should be golden.

[edouble101 314]

No progress on measurements yet. Tascam should be here next week.

 

I did treat the pilllars will cld and it worked well. Playing a 150hz test tone there is no panel resonance that I can hear. Drastic differnece than untreated.

[edouble101 314]

I started the testing with t/a set by distance measurement. 

 

Here are some impulse graphs that I aligned as close as I could to adjust t/a settings. I used the driver's side tweeter (red graph) as the reference point. I aligned the slope of the first impulse peak not the top of the peak. I read this is the correct method.

 

Pleas let me know if this looks correct.

 

Left/right tweeters (5-5.1khz)

 

Left/right midrange aligned to right tweeter (3-3.1khz)

 

Left/right midbass aligned to right tweeter  (2-2.1khz)

 

 

Quick listening test showed the center image was more in the center of the dash and the speakers are more transparent. Most adjustments were not too far off from my initial settings. The midbass drivers required the most adjustment.

[edouble101 314]

I should have mentioned that right channel smearing is gone and tweeter simblance is no longer an issue.

I previously set levels using my ears. Before adjusting t/a I used an SPL meter and found that the right channel mid was very hot. I also slightly dropped down 5-10khz on the eq and that helped the sibilance issue.

Edited June 8, 2013 by edouble101

[///M5 2,833]

Hard to tell from the plits as they give no setup info. Raher easy to have something off. Ehat does it look like electrically without the mic?

[edouble101 314]

Hard to tell from the plits as they give no setup info. Raher easy to have something off. Ehat does it look like electrically without the mic?

The repeatability of the setup was 100%.

What do you mean by "What does it look like electrically without the mic?"?

[///M5 2,833]

Loopback your output into your input with no Mic. I've seen serious anomalies in acquisition cards. Repeatability is easy accuracy not so much.

[edouble101 314]

Loopback your output into your input with no Mic. I've seen serious anomalies in acquisition cards. Repeatability is easy accuracy not so much.

 

That is what I do for for the soundcard calibration sequence. 

 

Here is the graph after calibration. Does this answer your question?

 

[///M5 2,833]

I am not familiar with the software you are using as I unfairly have a full suite of bruel & kjaer hardware. Without knowing settings and why the plot doesn't show me anything. I'd Google but am sitting on a plane in Copenhagen flying to Amsterdam. As a test looping it back and testing the impulse response should be consistent on the channels you are using. Nonlinear phase delay is a reality on most soundcards