Doubting my box for newly purchased Icon

[riored4v 8]

So I was using this box for my current 12" IDQ sub.  The opening was ofcourse cut larger to accept the 12" sub since the box was designed for a 10.  Was asking around and the idea was to use this design for my Icon sub that I purchased since I was getting rid of the IDQ.  I downloaded the pre-designed enclosures for the Icon and after seeing them, I'm a bit unsure about now using my current box for this sub.  Do you guys think the box below would work fine for the Icon?  My current box is 1.45 cu ft @ 32hz.  I knew it was going to be on the small size, but was told it would work fine.  My main problem is space in the trunk of my car.  I dont want a huge box and the 12 1/2" height of this current box works perfect to slide under the rear deck in the trunk.  Thoughts?

 

 

 

[altoncustomtech 773]

Personally I wouldn't use it.  There's not enough port area and the volume is smaller than I would want to use for any 12.

 

12.5" height seems like that's all you have due to the trunk height, what are your max dimensions on width and depth.  I would be glad help you with another enclosure design.  Any chance you could get 13" on height and be okay?

[pro-rabbit 64]

I agree, the enclosure is rather small for what you purchased.

 

Shouldn't be to hard to get a new enclosure designed, but the other issue may be the limited height.

[riored4v 8]

I'm pretty much limited at 12.5" on height.  I already had to "clearance" the inside of the car with a BFH to get this box to slide as far back as possible.  I do have more room on the sides of the box to make it wider.  I'll have to measure, but rough guess is 3-4" on both sides. 

 

Depth, I COULD go more if absolutely needed, but I would like to try and avoid it since its honestly at a perfect depth right now to stil have a useable trunk along with still having access to the spare tire well.

 

I'll run out here in a second to grab a picture or two to give you a better idea of what I'm referring to along with getting some measurements on how much room I have on both sides.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

I agree with the guys, both know their enclosures quite well by the way.  Since the Icon was upgraded/updated with the newer/larger motor last year, I really haven't felt comfortable suggesting anyone squeeze a 12 Icon ported, below 1.75 cubes, and it does like more port area then it did in the past versions.

[EPerez 236]

Make sure you listen to these guys. They absolutely know their shit. Alton has helped me with multiple boxes and has explained everything behind it.

[riored4v 8]

Couple quick pics of the current enclosure.  Rough measurements showed me about 4" on either side that I could add on to the box.  You can see the height is maxed out. 

 

IMAG1882 by riored4v, on Flickr

 

The box is flat on the bottom so I had to build a skirt around the edge of it to form it to the tri-level trunk design.  So i technically could go larger on the face of the trunk, but that would make the box design pretty complicated (atleast for me).

 

IMAG1881 by riored4v, on Flickr

[riored4v 8]

Make sure you listen to these guys. They absolutely know their shit. Alton has helped me with multiple boxes and has explained everything behind it.

 

I'm here to learn and to build a better enclosure.  Definitely not going to doubt their ability and I really appreciate the help offered.

 

I agree with the guys, both know their enclosures quite well by the way.  Since the Icon was upgraded/updated with the newer/larger motor last year, I really haven't felt comfortable suggesting anyone squeeze a 12 Icon ported, below 1.75 cubes, and it does like more port area then it did in the past versions.

 

Thanks Aaron.  I figure with the couple week wait time on the Icon, it gives me some time to get a new box built since I still have some material laying around from this previous build.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

It's a tight area, but worth building another box IMO, especially if you already have the wood.

[altoncustomtech 773]

I'll run some numbers and see what you really have to work with, but I think we can definitely get you fixed up.  Nice job on the enclosure and the "skirt" it's sitting on to keep it level, very nice craftsmanship.

[riored4v 8]

Thanks Alton.  I was playing with the box designer on the RE's site, and I think we can get really close also, but I know theirs is more for estimates vs actually using as a blueprint.  I appreciate the help!

[edouble101 314]

You could always use the icon in a sealed enclosure if you do not have the room for a properly designed ported enclosure.

[riored4v 8]

You could always use the icon in a sealed enclosure if you do not have the room for a properly designed ported enclosure.

 

Its crossed my mind, but I really like the way ported enclosures sound.

[altoncustomtech 773]

Well, it's damned tight.  We can squeeze 1.75cuft NET volume into 12.5" H x 31" W x 16" D and a 2.5" wide port.  Now, that's about minimum I would run on both but that's adding 3" to each side of the current enclosure's width and an inch to the depth, if you could fit that.

 

Sealed may very well be your best bet.  One thing I would like to note is that you may be very surprised by the sound of the ICON sealed.  Another question is when did you place the order?  Aaron, would there be a chance he could change the order to a 10?  Building a better box for the 10" ICON would be a much more feasible course of action.  Just a thought.

[riored4v 8]

The order was placed on Monday, so that may be an option...? I havent had a sealed setup in a long time, but my last ones didn't seem to perform as well as my last few ported setups. I listen to alot of music, but I primarily listen to rock and electronic music. I really love the low bass that I seem to get out of a ported setup. I wouldnt mind switching to a 10, or even sealed if needed but I really dont want to lose alot of the low end punch.

I guess the nicest thing about sealed would be an even smaller box that I have now.

Edited May 9, 2013 by riored4v

[altoncustomtech 773]

I mean, the 12" ICON could be used in the enclosure I mentioned, but it sure won't be running at it's optimum performance capabilities.  The 10" ICON could definitely get to it's optimum performance.  The 12" ICON sealed may really surprise you.  There's been plenty of SSA customers who've used the ICON's sealed and had no complaints on the output.  Another, more costly option, would be to go with a passive radiator for the 12.  Though I'm not sure how much good a PR setup does with only one PR matching the driver's size, but it would be another possible option I would think.  I'm currently working on one for a 10" XCON for my Jimmy.

 

I'm just listing the other options because I'd hate for you to get the ICON and not enjoy it.

[riored4v 8]

Is there any way to model or get an idea of what a 12" sealed ICON might put out in comparison to the 1.75 cu ft enclosure?  Or maybe even the 12" sealed vs the 10" ported?

 

The IDQ i have is nice, and I like it, but like you said, I'm really to LOVE the Icon vs just liking the IDQ so I ideally want the sub to perform like it should.  Both you and Aaron mentioned 1.75 is the smallest to go on the Icon, but it sounds like maybe that isn't even recommended since the sub won't perform like it should.

 

I'm also unfamiliar with the PR setup.

 

Also, if it matters, the amp the will be pushing the Icon is an Audioque 1200d, so the sub would be getting the full 1200w since it will be at 1ohm.

[altoncustomtech 773]

WinISD can model the response of each driver in each alignment, though it does take a little time to input all the T/S parameters.  

 

It's not so much "should" as "could".  Since speakers are dumb and only do what we tell them to do in the environment we choose to make them do it in, it's still going to work and do it's job.  Given all the conditions are right it CAN perform better in the optimum enclosure size than in something smaller, all those conditions dictate what that difference is.  For example, in a trunk as small as yours the gains from running the sub in an optimum sized enclosure could be negligible compared to the 1.75cuft enclosure, or it could make a bigger difference than it would in the back of a Suburban per say.  I'm no acoustic engineer and quite frankly, while I have seen, read and somewhat understand the way to figure for all that I'm really not capable of doing it.  WinISD will give the response of each of those drivers and alignments but only for a given set of conditions and one thing I can tell you now is that those conditions do not match that of the trunk and cabin of your car, or mine, or anyone elses.  Vehicles have what it called cabin gain on the lower frequencies due to how the air pressurizes in the small environment.  WinISD doesn't account for any of that and what you see on the graphs will in most all cases not match what it really does in real life in a given vehicle.  Which like many others is where I find myself, just trying to figure for the most of what I can and hope for the best.  It sounds bad, but how many people really figure for EVERY variable, or even can?

 

As for the PR's, they take the place of the port.  The passive radiator is basically another sub but without a motor or voice coil.  When the active sub moves the pressure changes in the enclosure move the cone of the passive radiator.  By adding weight to the cone you can tune the frequency the PR resonates at and therefore tune the enclosure much like you would that of a ported enclosure.  The pros are that the enclosure is smaller than a standard ported enclosure as it only needs to be as large as the NET volume is required to be and you get the same response as a ported enclosure.  The cons are that it's not a BIG savings in space in most cases, it can be difficult to find space on the faces of the enclosure for the PR(s), and they're more expensive since you have to purchase the PR(s) as well as the active sub.  

 

The power doesn't really change anything as far as the enclosure is concerned.

[riored4v 8]

Thanks for all the info.  Not too sure i'm really interested in the PR setup after reading about it.  I'm just trying to keep this as somewhat simple as possible.  Also not sure I want to bother the Aaron or SSA with trying to swap out my order for a 10 instead of the 12.  So I guess at this point, its a matter of going with the minimum 1.75 cu ft ported enclosure, or go with the more optimal sized sealed enclosure and also free up some space in the process.  Which do you think you net be the best results?

[altoncustomtech 773]

Is it too much trouble to try both?  I don't know how much material you have left over, but if it were me I would build both, measure the pros and cons of each and go with the one I liked the most.  It shouldn't be hard to sell the enclosures you don't use on craigslist to a local.

[riored4v 8]

Might be close but I'm not sure I have enough material left to build both.  Was doing some more searching on here and like you were saying, there seems to be alot of people running the Icon's sealed and really love them (even saw that Aaron mentions he prefers them in a sealed enclosure).  I guess my only concern with sealed is the low end output and overall volume.  Even with that being said,  I'm almost leaning towards sealed at this point since I like the idea of a smaller enclosure and less weight.

[altoncustomtech 773]

Then I think the solution would simply be to build the sealed enclosure.  Then after spending some time with it, if you didn't get the response you want or output then we can look at a ported enclosure again.

[riored4v 8]

Thats the route I'm thinking as well. If nothing else, like you said, I can build a ported setup later if the sealed one doesnt rattle my head enough. Any chance you could toss together a sealed enclosure design for me using the max height we talked about at the start of the thread?  If possible, maybe add a second layer to the front with a larger cutout so the sub would look mounted flush to the surface (if that makes sense)?

Edited May 9, 2013 by riored4v

[altoncustomtech 773]

It certainly does, and of course, no problem at all.

[altoncustomtech 773]

Take a look at this and see what you think.  It's pretty straightforward though since it's a sealed enclosure.  1.25cuft NET measuring 12.5" H x 11.75" D x 25" W with a double baffle (ignore the little crown in the picture, that's just how Sketchup did the flush since the top isn't drawn on yet) and a little 45 bracing in the back corners.