FI Sp4 On Fire.. Warranty?

[ramteid 17]

Here is some info for you guys.

Notice where he says that a -6 db tone will cause a 1000 watt amp to put out 4000 watts.

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/amplifiers/476748-what-difference-between-0db-3db-6db-etc-test-tones-2.html#post7116863

"lol a 0db test tone means it's recorded at reference level, 0 decibels

below the peak level capable of being recorded onto a cd. a -6 tone is

6db's quieter than that. If a tone at 0db's puts out 1000 watts from

the amp, a -6 tone will put out 4000. So yes, a 0db tone is louder than

a -6, so gains will be lower with a 0db for the same output. If you

set gains with a 0db tone, your gains will be very low and you wont' see

much power out of the amp on any tone other than a 0db peak on a

recording. setting at -3 or -6 means you'll get close to RMS power at

the normal parts of the song. SPL guys set gains with tones because

they are pushing things to the absolute limits and will be burping with

that exact tone. Granted I come from more of a SQ oriented mindset,

where people know how to properly use their equipment and dont' tend to

overdrive things constantly. If your that scared, use a 0db tone, just

dont' wonder why that that tone got loud but as soon as you pop in a cd,

everything is quiet. Techically anythign other than a 0db tone will

probably clip part of the time, but that also guarantees you'l never see

alot of the power from the amp either. If you don't trust your ears

and find 0db is really quiet try a -3."

Your information is incorrect.

[rizzo30 4]

Here is some info for you guys.

Notice where he says that a -6 db tone will cause a 1000 watt amp to put out 4000 watts.

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/amplifiers/476748-what-difference-between-0db-3db-6db-etc-test-tones-2.html#post7116863

"lol a 0db test tone means it's recorded at reference level, 0 decibels

below the peak level capable of being recorded onto a cd. a -6 tone is

6db's quieter than that. If a tone at 0db's puts out 1000 watts from

the amp, a -6 tone will put out 4000. So yes, a 0db tone is louder than

a -6, so gains will be lower with a 0db for the same output. If you

set gains with a 0db tone, your gains will be very low and you wont' see

much power out of the amp on any tone other than a 0db peak on a

recording. setting at -3 or -6 means you'll get close to RMS power at

the normal parts of the song. SPL guys set gains with tones because

they are pushing things to the absolute limits and will be burping with

that exact tone. Granted I come from more of a SQ oriented mindset,

where people know how to properly use their equipment and dont' tend to

overdrive things constantly. If your that scared, use a 0db tone, just

dont' wonder why that that tone got loud but as soon as you pop in a cd,

everything is quiet. Techically anythign other than a 0db tone will

probably clip part of the time, but that also guarantees you'l never see

alot of the power from the amp either. If you don't trust your ears

and find 0db is really quiet try a -3."

Your information is incorrect.

No, your information is incorrect.  He gave the sub too much power and we all know that.  For that reason its a customer abuse issue, not warranty.

[ramteid 17]

Here is some info for you guys.

Notice where he says that a -6 db tone will cause a 1000 watt amp to put out 4000 watts.

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/amplifiers/476748-what-difference-between-0db-3db-6db-etc-test-tones-2.html#post7116863

"lol a 0db test tone means it's recorded at reference level, 0 decibels

below the peak level capable of being recorded onto a cd. a -6 tone is

6db's quieter than that. If a tone at 0db's puts out 1000 watts from

the amp, a -6 tone will put out 4000. So yes, a 0db tone is louder than

a -6, so gains will be lower with a 0db for the same output. If you

set gains with a 0db tone, your gains will be very low and you wont' see

much power out of the amp on any tone other than a 0db peak on a

recording. setting at -3 or -6 means you'll get close to RMS power at

the normal parts of the song. SPL guys set gains with tones because

they are pushing things to the absolute limits and will be burping with

that exact tone. Granted I come from more of a SQ oriented mindset,

where people know how to properly use their equipment and dont' tend to

overdrive things constantly. If your that scared, use a 0db tone, just

dont' wonder why that that tone got loud but as soon as you pop in a cd,

everything is quiet. Techically anythign other than a 0db tone will

probably clip part of the time, but that also guarantees you'l never see

alot of the power from the amp either. If you don't trust your ears

and find 0db is really quiet try a -3."

Your information is incorrect.

No, your information is incorrect. He gave the sub too much power and we all know that. For that reason its a customer abuse issue, not warranty.

We all know why he blew it up but your explanation is still incorrect. If you would go through the topic, from the link you posted, you would see that one person had it correct when he said "I frequently load music files in adobe audition which monitors db levels of the signal. MOST songs I have looked at reach 0db at some point, and some exceed that (clip) frequently, although the average dB level of the entire song is often -10db or less."

[rizzo30 4]

 

 

Here is some info for you guys.

Notice where he says that a -6 db tone will cause a 1000 watt amp to put out 4000 watts.

http://www.caraudio.com/forums/amplifiers/476748-what-difference-between-0db-3db-6db-etc-test-tones-2.html#post7116863

"lol a 0db test tone means it's recorded at reference level, 0 decibels

below the peak level capable of being recorded onto a cd. a -6 tone is

6db's quieter than that. If a tone at 0db's puts out 1000 watts from

the amp, a -6 tone will put out 4000. So yes, a 0db tone is louder than

a -6, so gains will be lower with a 0db for the same output. If you

set gains with a 0db tone, your gains will be very low and you wont' see

much power out of the amp on any tone other than a 0db peak on a

recording. setting at -3 or -6 means you'll get close to RMS power at

the normal parts of the song. SPL guys set gains with tones because

they are pushing things to the absolute limits and will be burping with

that exact tone. Granted I come from more of a SQ oriented mindset,

where people know how to properly use their equipment and dont' tend to

overdrive things constantly. If your that scared, use a 0db tone, just

dont' wonder why that that tone got loud but as soon as you pop in a cd,

everything is quiet. Techically anythign other than a 0db tone will

probably clip part of the time, but that also guarantees you'l never see

alot of the power from the amp either. If you don't trust your ears

and find 0db is really quiet try a -3."

Your information is incorrect.

No, your information is incorrect. He gave the sub too much power and we all know that. For that reason its a customer abuse issue, not warranty.

We all know why he blew it up but your explanation is still incorrect. If you would go through the topic, from the link you posted, you would see that one person had it correct when he said "I frequently load music files in adobe audition which monitors db levels of the signal. MOST songs I have looked at reach 0db at some point, and some exceed that (clip) frequently, although the average dB level of the entire song is often -10db or less."

 

It doesn't really matter where the "average" is at.  This is calculated per the sub's RMS power.  Sub is rated at 3000 watts RMS and he pushed it past that.  I'm going to agree to disagree with you.

[gibsonm21 1]

I'm still trying to understand how the OP overpowering/clipping the sub only smoked the spider/tinsel lead, but oh well. The sad part is I'm still dying to run these subs.

[NDMstang65 403]

Severe over driving and inductive heating.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the tinsel leads or the sub period.

 

If there was something wrong with it every single one would have failed. There are thousands of them out there with no issues.

 

Speakers are stupid..they do what you tell them to do in the environment you place them in. They do not spontaneously combust.

[smashedz28 110]

Combusting subwoofer... Sounds like it could be fun lol.

[rizzo30 4]

I'm still trying to understand how the OP overpowering/clipping the sub only smoked the spider/tinsel lead, but oh well. The sad part is I'm still dying to run these subs.

 

It was by over driving the sub.  He said that he used a -6db test tone with a scope to set his gains which means that he just applied too much power to the sub and it smoked. 

[gibsonm21 1]

Severe over driving and inductive heating.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the tinsel leads or the sub period.

 

If there was something wrong with it every single one would have failed. There are thousands of them out there with no issues.

 

Speakers are stupid..they do what you tell them to do in the environment you place them in. They do not spontaneously combust.

 

Is this the same logic you used for the first part of your statement?

 

I'd be willing to accept the argument of severe over-driving (to one side of the suspension) if the OP was running an NS1 or a Brazilian smoke machine. Granted I don't know for a fact that the OP wasn't running a bigger amp, but assuming he was running a Sundown 3k on a 3k rated woofer, shouldn't Severe over-driving of the suspension be the least of his worries?

[NDMstang65 403]

Severe over driving and inductive heating.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the tinsel leads or the sub period.

 

If there was something wrong with it every single one would have failed. There are thousands of them out there with no issues.

 

Speakers are stupid..they do what you tell them to do in the environment you place them in. They do not spontaneously combust.

 

Is this the same logic you used for the first part of your statement?

 

I'd be willing to accept the argument of severe over-driving (to one side of the suspension) if the OP was running an NS1 or a Brazilian smoke machine. Granted I don't know for a fact that the OP wasn't running a bigger amp, but assuming he was running a Sundown 3k on a 3k rated woofer, shouldn't Severe over-driving of the suspension be the least of his worries?

 

If you burn any speaker up...regardless if it is a walmart or craiglist special it is because the loose nut behind the controls applied too much power to it in one form or another, or there was something else going on with the inductive heating.

 

The Korean amps ramp the switching frequency of the mosfets up sky high so they can save 4 parts on the board and they do not filter any of this high frequency noise out.

 

That noise goes into the tinsel leads on the speaker and causes them to glow.

 

The vast majority of the time the speakers are wired in series or parallel which will always yield 1 tinsel lead frying on one side of the sub..unless it holds on long enough to bang the other tinsel lead on the other side, which occasionally does happen.

 

If people can run in excess of 8000 watts to that exact same tinsel lead setup all day every day with zero problems there is something wrong somewhere else. Watts is heat energy, if things are set up properly a 3000 watt amplifier should NEVER be able to produce the heat that 8000 watts worth of mulitple amplifiers does.

[onebadmonte 235]

Combusting subwoofer... Sounds like it could be fun lol.

 

Sounds like just what I need to get the umph out of the cannon shots in 1812 overture.

[ncc74656 2]

my Sp4 cough fire today. i just got my new amp from kicker and hooked it up yesterday. i spent 60 bucks to pay some local shop to oscope the amp (thats one amp! 60 bucks for a single o scope) but i wanted to be safe...

 

just got my new alternator installed and i put new wiring in not long ago.

 

driving down the road my sub cuts out and i smell smoke, thinking the amp wire came loose or some wire is melting i pull over and check my amps, batteries, wiring under the truck; then i see thick smoke coming from the sp4 just before flames burst through the surround. while on fire i pull and yank trying to get this box that weighs 3 times what i do out of hte back of hte truck. still burning i try to put the fire out and here are the results. 

 

i have owned this sp4 for only a couple months and prior i had a BL 18 on this same setup with same amp and had NO issues for 7 months.

 

http://imgur.com/a/SifIJ

 

i will be emailing Fi shortly and requesting a replacement or a recone kit to be sent.

[shizzzon 461]

How did you have the same setup and same amp for 7 months when you said you just got a new amp from kicker yesterday...

 

Your story is void.

[ricksi30 923]

I really don't get this...

[nadcicle 77]

my Sp4 cough fire today. i just got my new amp from kicker and hooked it up yesterday. i spent 60 bucks to pay some local shop to oscope the amp (thats one amp! 60 bucks for a single o scope) but i wanted to be safe...

just got my new alternator installed and i put new wiring in not long ago.

driving down the road my sub cuts out and i smell smoke, thinking the amp wire came loose or some wire is melting i pull over and check my amps, batteries, wiring under the truck; then i see thick smoke coming from the sp4 just before flames burst through the surround. while on fire i pull and yank trying to get this box that weighs 3 times what i do out of hte back of hte truck. still burning i try to put the fire out and here are the results.

i have owned this sp4 for only a couple months and prior i had a BL 18 on this same setup with same amp and had NO issues for 7 months.

http://imgur.com/a/SifIJ

i will be emailing Fi shortly and requesting a replacement or a recone kit to be sent.

Out of curiosity, was your Sp4 fully loaded by chance? The pic shows otherwise unless you pulled off the spider spacer. From what I've seen so far the fires have only been happening to those with spacers. This would be new if that's the case. Furthermore, didn't you come from an AQ2200 to that kicker? What impedance did you run them both at?

Edited August 8, 2013 by nadcicle

[nadcicle 77]

Hold up, I spy bass boost...

 

[NDMstang65 403]

bass boost is on..there's your problem

 

watch..learn

 

[ncc74656 2]

the bass boost was hooked up through the remote dial. my understanding was that so long as there was no clipping the bass boost was just as good as a volume knob.

I also recall reading that the bass boost on an amp that is designed with a remote bass knob is different than an amp not designed for this function or a deck. is there any difference?

the kicker amp was rebuilt thorough RMA as it was damaged last month when a guy broke into the truck and shorted out my wires. that's why i just got it from kicker.</p>

<p>the SP4 has cooling and the dust cap but no space spider, i didn't read anywhere that it provided any kind of noticeable improvement for the sub so i opted not to buy

i did not have a AQ amp, i had a 1500.1 on my BL before upgrading to a 2500.1 and running my BL off that for quite a while until i sold it to get my SP4.  my enclosure is at 35hz and my subsonic is at 30hz. (3rd party sub sonic filter). </p>

 </p>

the bass boost at 50% (ish) started to clip so i have a mark on my bass boost at 40% up. 

the sub was dual 1 and the amp is at 2ohm.

 </p>

my deck has loudness off, bass boost off, flat EQ, a +2 on SLA level to balance it with my radio, and thats about it.</p>

Edited August 8, 2013 by ncc74656

[nigel 148]

my brother had an old rockford fosgate punch 360a2 amplifier that burnt tinsel leads like a mofo. Just about every other week we were pulling a sub out to resolder a tinsel lead, had phoenix gold and JL both warranty a burnt tinsel lead for us even though it states it's not covered in their warranty info. We swapped the amp out for a different amp, and no more cooked tinsels. Just some nice bass.

[ncc74656 2]

if we are absolutely sure its an issue with my setup and not any defect with the speaker than i would think a recone is in order, no?

 

is there any reason why a recone would not rebuild this speaker?

[Enj0i N0ne 40]

Never ever use the bass boost on your amplifier, it creates distortion which anally rapes your sub

[ncc74656 2]

out of curiosity why is bass boost there? what is its 'intended' function? it seems odd to me that a dial that has no positive effects would be on every amp. 

[NDMstang65 403]

watch the video man..it explains EVERYTHING

[ncc74656 2]

I saw the video but it doesn't explain what it's intended purposes is. How does it actually function? It only boosts 1 frequency on a certain octave slope?

Secondly do we think there's any reason a recone would not fix it?

[nadcicle 77]

I saw the video but it doesn't explain what it's intended purposes is. How does it actually function? It only boosts 1 frequency on a certain octave slope?

Secondly do we think there's any reason a recone would not fix it?

 

Bass boosts that 1 @ 40hz frequency so when setting gains on an o-scope it is almost useless since music is dynamic. 1 song might play a variety of frequencies ranging from 25hz all the way up to 80hz. However, you set your gains with an o-scope with bb on so you just amplified the hell out of 40hz when you might have set your gains at 50hz. Most of the time people set gains on an o-scope for 1 frequency only and that's for a strong burp. This is why everyone recommends to set gains by ear without any bass boost at all since most systems built are for daily. 

 

With that being said your motor and basket should be fine and should take a drop in recone without any issues. Hell, if you're pissed enough i'd even offer you 200 for the motor and basket since it'll be $236 for a fully loaded drop in. Honestly, it's a live and learn mistake that everyone has mentioned time and time again. I know it sucks, but at least you can always rebuild.