Welcome to the IHoP v.2

[sandt38 448]

 

 

 

Turbos are not CARB certified and technically due to the fact that they modify your exhaust can be considered an emissions violation depending on the laws where you live.

Superchargers come without exhaust modification, therefore no emission system changes.

 

>I just don't understand how a turbo can be illegal, but a S/C isn't. Fucking

crazy.

 

 

Read above your quote here.  It's all about the exhaust.  They COULD be CARB legal, but the money and time would make the kits too expensive and would never sell, so it's pointless.  Any time you make any part of the exhaust different from OEM, you are in violation.

 

 

Depends on the exhaust system. An esky goes 2 into one, but it does run 2 cats. So it must feed exhaust thought both cats before the turbo. While not impossible, it is a nightmare.

 

FWIW a Turbo is not optimal for towing. A turbo (particularly intercooled) requires engine RPM and exhaust flow. You can compensate by using a loose converter, but you build heat. This heat buildup is an extremely bad thing when yanking weight behind you. IMO, while I am not a big supercharger fan (sorry, I owned a built to fuck GN), an SC makes more sense in Sean's case.

I tow a 2,000lb trailer for 99% of my towing. Stock it has plenty of power for towing it. Figure a turbo does make sense for the economy of it and lack of extra load on the rest of the engine to compensate for spinning the charger.

 

If I were towing I would go SC. No question. A turbo is my preference, but in all honesty I think you would be happier with an SC, just based on what I have read about your driving preference and requirements.

 

So something like the STS rear mount system would be legit?

I thought turbochargers were best at creating high TQ situations, and that is why they are used with diesels so often. I don't think I have ever seen a supercharged diesel.....

Probably not the same thing, but all combustion engines are basically big air pumps so my dumb ass logic would think.....

 

 

Yes.

 

Not really. They are used in diesels because they are tuned to work with super low RPM systems. They are easily set up with exhaust work, and diesels use huge exhausts. This promotes low RPM flow, but lacks high RPM flow. In a diesel, this makes sense because their powerband is so narrow. With a gasoline engine the powerband is extremely wide.

[sandt38 448]

A PD blower, not centrifugal though.  Not in that heavy bitch.

 

I would go whipple, no question.

[sandt38 448]

I am totally wasted on the Brooklyn Brewery Black Chocolate Stout. I bought 2 4 packs and went beck to the shop. I had 4, 1 other tech had 3 and my service manager had 1. I bought all 3 remaining 4 packs on my way home, and drank 5 more beers. I got out of work 3 hours ago. At 10% these are solid alcohol beers... Yeah, I am wasted and I just opened another...

Holy FUCK these are tasty. You guys who like real beer MUST TRY THESES!!!!

They sound great!!!

 

 

Yeah, Amazing...

 

 

I have no words to explain this beer. Bar none, my favorite beer I have ever tried. Oddly, I tend to like my stouts fairly warm, roughly 50 degrees or so. But this is amazing even in the fridge.

[dem beats 1,223]

Why is a screw preferred to a centrifugal?

[dem beats 1,223]

I had a guess that diesels put out more exhaust at lower RPM and that's why. Thank you for the explanation. I usually learn a lot when you post even if it's subjects I disagree on, or feel decently informed on.

You should think about teaching some day.

[ssh 924]

I am totally wasted on the Brooklyn Brewery Black Chocolate Stout. I bought 2 4 packs and went beck to the shop. I had 4, 1 other tech had 3 and my service manager had 1. I bought all 3 remaining 4 packs on my way home, and drank 5 more beers. I got out of work 3 hours ago. At 10% these are solid alcohol beers... Yeah, I am wasted and I just opened another...

Holy FUCK these are tasty. You guys who like real beer MUST TRY THESES!!!!

I wonder if that's something whole foods down here would have?

I've been getting growlers lately and looking into brewing.

[swift 501]

Why is a screw preferred to a centrifugal?

Twin screws will put out massive Tq instantly and a centri will build boost more progressively and generally have much much less torque and it comes on later. A good twin screw setup will feel like a big block all motor car. In a big SUV a whipple or manga charger type setup would shit all over a centri for daily driving.

Edited December 14, 2013 by swift

[dem beats 1,223]

DM called me today. He took a job moving him back to Atlanta and gave me the most positive pep talk I have ever had from a boss.

"The market needs you...... Apply for the new area manager jobs... You are a natural leader.... Etc"

It sounds like smoke up my ass, but it felt sincere. I wasn't to fond of the guy originally, but he made a change mid year and I think I'm going to miss the guy a little bit.

[dem beats 1,223]

Why is a screw preferred to a centrifugal?

Twin screws will put out massive Tq instantly and a centri will build boost more progressively and generally have much much less torque and it comes on later. A good twin screw setup will feel like a big block all motor car. In a big SUV a whipple or manga charger type setup would shit all over a centri for daily driving.

That doesn't make sense, the centrifugal could just be geared to blow harder. I don't understand some of this, obviously, but a lower amount of rotating mass like a centrifugal blower sounds like it would be less parasitic and if a turbo can produce huge wind, so can a belt driven snail, that is all just a matter of the pulleys and ratios.

[dem beats 1,223]

I'm not disagreeing I hope you know, I just don't understand. I want to though.

I would also imagine less friction and less heat too from a snail shaped S/C, and then even more energy turned into pressure.

[sandt38 448]

I had a guess that diesels put out more exhaust at lower RPM and that's why. Thank you for the explanation. I usually learn a lot when you post even if it's subjects I disagree on, or feel decently informed on.

You should think about teaching some day.

 

Meh. I am a worker, not a teacher. I love helping other mechanics, and showing them shit on an individual level, but I could not teach people shit. I understand how things work, but getting it from my head into words is another thing. I help a lot of people by phone, but in difficult situations I can analyze data, but I cannot explain what I am seeing or explain why it makes sense, it just does. It isn't all about "this is how it is" with me, it is more of a sense of deductive reasoning.

 

I have had many cases where I can fix something, but explaining how I got there is impossible for me. I just get it, I can't necessarily explain it.

 

I am totally wasted on the Brooklyn Brewery Black Chocolate Stout. I bought 2 4 packs and went beck to the shop. I had 4, 1 other tech had 3 and my service manager had 1. I bought all 3 remaining 4 packs on my way home, and drank 5 more beers. I got out of work 3 hours ago. At 10% these are solid alcohol beers... Yeah, I am wasted and I just opened another...

Holy FUCK these are tasty. You guys who like real beer MUST TRY THESES!!!!

I wonder if that's something whole foods down here would have?

I've been getting growlers lately and looking into brewing.

 

Oddly I found it at my local Sheetz store. We have a local store (Bestway) that has a "Wall of beer", and they don't have it. If you like a stout, I suggest looking hard for this. The label says "Winter 13/14", so I expect it is a short run.

 

My cousin's husband brews big time, is garage is retarded... they have a 3 car garage and it is all brewing, but he has never done anything like this... of course he likes oatmeal stouts. His beers are excellent, BTW. Another buddy of mine was so turned on last week by it that he is learning about chocolate and cocoa stouts. I hope he can work something out. He made a great stout and an excellent porter.

[sandt38 448]

 

Why is a screw preferred to a centrifugal?

Twin screws will put out massive Tq instantly and a centri will build boost more progressively and generally have much much less torque and it comes on later. A good twin screw setup will feel like a big block all motor car. In a big SUV a whipple or manga charger type setup would shit all over a centri for daily driving.

That doesn't make sense, the centrifugal could just be geared to blow harder. I don't understand some of this, obviously, but a lower amount of rotating mass like a centrifugal blower sounds like it would be less parasitic and if a turbo can produce huge wind, so can a belt driven snail, that is all just a matter of the pulleys and ratios.

 

A centrifugal can blow harder, but the total displacement is considerably less. A turbo spins a lot faster, which is where it's benefit lies.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

I'm not disagreeing I hope you know, I just don't understand. I want to though.

I would also imagine less friction and less heat too from a snail shaped S/C, and then even more energy turned into pressure.

Centris build boost progressively with RPM.  PDs are instant.  You hit the throttle, you are almost at full boost.

[ssh 924]

I had a guess that diesels put out more exhaust at lower RPM and that's why. Thank you for the explanation. I usually learn a lot when you post even if it's subjects I disagree on, or feel decently informed on.

You should think about teaching some day.

Meh. I am a worker, not a teacher. I love helping other mechanics, and showing them shit on an individual level, but I could not teach people shit. I understand how things work, but getting it from my head into words is another thing. I help a lot of people by phone, but in difficult situations I can analyze data, but I cannot explain what I am seeing or explain why it makes sense, it just does. It isn't all about "this is how it is" with me, it is more of a sense of deductive reasoning.

I have had many cases where I can fix something, but explaining how I got there is impossible for me. I just get it, I can't necessarily explain it.

I am totally wasted on the Brooklyn Brewery Black Chocolate Stout. I bought 2 4 packs and went beck to the shop. I had 4, 1 other tech had 3 and my service manager had 1. I bought all 3 remaining 4 packs on my way home, and drank 5 more beers. I got out of work 3 hours ago. At 10% these are solid alcohol beers... Yeah, I am wasted and I just opened another...

Holy FUCK these are tasty. You guys who like real beer MUST TRY THESES!!!!

I wonder if that's something whole foods down here would have?

I've been getting growlers lately and looking into brewing.

Oddly I found it at my local Sheetz store. We have a local store (Bestway) that has a "Wall of beer", and they don't have it. If you like a stout, I suggest looking hard for this. The label says "Winter 13/14", so I expect it is a short run.

My cousin's husband brews big time, is garage is retarded... they have a 3 car garage and it is all brewing, but he has never done anything like this... of course he likes oatmeal stouts. His beers are excellent, BTW. Another buddy of mine was so turned on last week by it that he is learning about chocolate and cocoa stouts. I hope he can work something out. He made a great stout and an excellent porter.

Sounds fun and tasty. Has he ever made a stout and apple cider mix by chance?

[///M5 2,833]

Turbos are not CARB certified and technically due to the fact that they modify your exhaust can be considered an emissions violation depending on the laws where you live.

Superchargers come without exhaust modification, therefore no emission system changes.

 

>I just don't understand how a turbo can be illegal, but a S/C isn't. Fucking

crazy.

 

 

Read above your quote here.  It's all about the exhaust.  They COULD be CARB legal, but the money and time would make the kits too expensive and would never sell, so it's pointless.  Any time you make any part of the exhaust different from OEM, you are in violation.

 

Depends on the exhaust system. An esky goes 2 into one, but it does run 2 cats. So it must feed exhaust thought both cats before the turbo. While not impossible, it is a nightmare.

 

FWIW a Turbo is not optimal for towing. A turbo (particularly intercooled) requires engine RPM and exhaust flow. You can compensate by using a loose converter, but you build heat. This heat buildup is an extremely bad thing when yanking weight behind you. IMO, while I am not a big supercharger fan (sorry, I owned a built to fuck GN), an SC makes more sense in Sean's case.

I tow a 2,000lb trailer for 99% of my towing. Stock it has plenty of power for towing it. Figure a turbo does make sense for the economy of it and lack of extra load on the rest of the engine to compensate for spinning the charger.

 

If I were towing I would go SC. No question. A turbo is my preference, but in all honesty I think you would be happier with an SC, just based on what I have read about your driving preference and requirements.

 

So something like the STS rear mount system would be legit?

I thought turbochargers were best at creating high TQ situations, and that is why they are used with diesels so often. I don't think I have ever seen a supercharged diesel.....

Probably not the same thing, but all combustion engines are basically big air pumps so my dumb ass logic would think.....

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I don't care about towing performance. If it is worse than stock that is ok. Actually more worried about the brakes in that regard.

Here is what I figure:

Stock 378ci = 403hp/417ft lb

Mine* 427ci with bigger valves, lower compression, and a turbo cam. Without the FI, the power difference shouldn't be a big deal and I bet it will be fine towing stock. *what I am contemplating atm

Also has the stock 6L80 which I would suspect won't like 800hp if it is NOW. A little lag would extend it's life, wouldn't it? Towing and boost from idle I'd imagine to be extra hard on it. What I've gathered is that the clutch packs fail first usually with FI and a poor tune. I could be absolutely stupid and backwards though...

[///M5 2,833]

As for FI:

Roots style - power now, best for moving the heavy ass beast off the line, CARB approved, hardest on the tranny and least overall power potential.

Centrifugal - a little lag, but more potential, a little easier on the tranny but with a boost controller I can have 2 profiles in tune, whiny as fuck.

Turbo - all the benefits of the Centrifugal without the extra load on the engine to power the charger. Most overall power potential. More lag although I am pretty sure I can size on with that engine to bring me way up in power without lag that extends too far.

[dem beats 1,223]

I would guess that all spinning parts after the motor would take less of a beating if the power happens a bit higher in the RPMs.

What I do know anecdotally from every single bit of reading is that the tune and how the tranny is told to change gears and when makes more impact on the longevity than everything else combined.

Clean shifts at the right time can make a tranny handle way mote engine than it's meant to, same with a sloppy tune for than tranny will send it in to the shop even on an engine that doesn't hit half it's rated power.

[///M5 2,833]

Just relaying deductions from the technologies and internet bullshit though so please correct/lead me the right direction. I am buying one of the three for sure. I would suck too much at filling the NOS to make that a solution for me and I drive aggressive all the time, not just when I flip a switch.

[///M5 2,833]

Also figure that the Turbo will be the most fuel efficient when not deep into boost.

[///M5 2,833]

I would guess that all spinning parts after the motor would take less of a beating if the power happens a bit higher in the RPMs.

What I do know anecdotally from every single bit of reading is that the tune and how the tranny is told to change gears and when makes more impact on the longevity than everything else combined.

Clean shifts at the right time can make a tranny handle way mote engine than it's meant to, same with a sloppy tune for than tranny will send it in to the shop even on an engine that doesn't hit half it's rated power.

That and the 6L80 NEEDS a temp gauge. When she is hot there are problems if you continue.

[dem beats 1,223]

As for FI:

Roots style - power now, best for moving the heavy ass beast off the line, CARB approved, hardest on the tranny and least overall power potential.

Centrifugal - a little lag, but more potential, a little easier on the tranny but with a boost controller I can have 2 profiles in tune, whiny as fuck.

Turbo - all the benefits of the Centrifugal without the extra load on the engine to power the charger. Most overall power potential. More lag although I am pretty sure I can size on with that engine to bring me way up in power without lag that extends too far.

Twin turbo with a couple tunes.

;-)

1000 HP DD that will sip gas if you have it turned down.

[///M5 2,833]

Another reason for an intercooler build for me. Have to add some trans cooling as well.

[Tirefryr 1,742]

The Vortech SQ is pretty quiet.  Here's the one on my last Mustang

 

 

http://s424.photobucket.com/user/tirefryr/media/GT/Picture034.mp4.html

[///M5 2,833]

As for FI:

Roots style - power now, best for moving the heavy ass beast off the line, CARB approved, hardest on the tranny and least overall power potential.

Centrifugal - a little lag, but more potential, a little easier on the tranny but with a boost controller I can have 2 profiles in tune, whiny as fuck.

Turbo - all the benefits of the Centrifugal without the extra load on the engine to power the charger. Most overall power potential. More lag although I am pretty sure I can size on with that engine to bring me way up in power without lag that extends too far.

Twin turbo with a couple tunes.

;-)

1000 HP DD that will sip gas if you have it turned down.

Can get pretty close to that with a single squirrel cage, obviously won't spool as quick though. A couple cheap used Holsets as a twin setup may not even be that much more expensive. I assume I could go as small as an HX35/40 if there were a pair of them.

[///M5 2,833]

I am just not sure I want the complexity of buying used diesel turbo's and outfitting them to a cadillac. If I buy new though you just took another $4k away from me which I don't think is something I can rationalize on a truck.