Welcome to the IHoP v.2

[dem beats 1,223]

They are basically identical but end up with massively different results. I don't know if that has the option of external antennas, but those help allot. In homes with metal in the walls and apartments it's twice as important to have that extra oomph.

Edited September 7, 2013 by dem beats

[sandt38 448]

OK, so I just got myself an opportunity for long range, high yield woodchuck/groundhog hunting. My shop manager is a hunter, and he has taken to a .17 HMR that he built the shit out of.. But we discussed hard core varminters and he is interested in a .223 WSSM build. So now I have a varminting buddy again. Unfortunately I sold my varminter several years back. I have decided I will chamber in 22-250 again, and I am going to handload.

 

First to the loads; I will be loading 55-65 grain ballistic tips, but I want to keep my options open to include 70 grain, and possibly 80 grain for really long range coyote shoots. With this thought in mind, ideally I want a 9-10 twist, but I have the option of loading 22-250 improved, which will yeild me a bit more speed, and might stretch me out to 11 or even a 12 twist, but this is not ideal with heavier loads.

 

With that in mind, this is my goal; I want to buy affordable (not opposed to used in good condition), I am looking for something that will shoot very well out of the box, and I would like to have the option for nice upgradeability in the future if I do really wind up doing a lot of varminting.

 

I have narrowed it down to these options. The Savage Model 12 is at the very top of my list, followed closely by the Remington 700, the Tikka T3 light, and the Browning X-bolt.

 

The Savage model 12 receives excellent reviews for out of the box performance. The big deal with it is, they are so easy to customize and build. It comes with the accu-trigger, which is the nicest stock offering, and may not even need an upgrade in the future. Also, the barrels are simple to change, and there is a local barrel builder with tons of custom offerings for the Savage actions. I can get into a Model 12 for ~$500 used, spend $300 on a nice bull barrel and really be done with it.

 

On to the others... The Model 700 is a fantastic action. The barrels require a press to change, and frankly that makes it less appealing to me. I am basically stuck with the stock barrel, unless I want to buy a barrel and have it installed by a smith, making the swap almost twice as expensive as a simple barrel swap on the Savage. The trigger group will have to be swapped out in the future, without a doubt. The Tikka T3 is a damn fine gun. I have a T3 Hunter in .270 WSM. The action is very smooth and well controlled and the shortest out of the selected group, the gun is exceptionally accurate right out of the box, I can swap barrels easily (which I will have to do as the Lite needs a better barrel as all Tikka 22-250s are 14 twists). The Browning... I love the feel of the A and X bolts. I always have. But I have never had the pleasure of shooting one, personally. This is more of a "I have always wanted" rather then an "I really researched it and" kind of a deal.

 

Anyone with any input on any of these choices, or any other options? My goal is to initially spend less that $600, new or used. Glass is handled already.

 

Only thing I can say is some of the rem700s come with a rubber hogue stock and it sucks. As you said the barrels require a press, and use thread locker so they're supposedly a bitch to try and change yourself. I'm pretty happy about the stock trigger on my rem700 sps varmint. It's a light, short, linear pull, no hang ups anywhere. I haven't shot many rifles to compare it to, so feel free to take that with a grain of salt.

 

Might also check out fn herstal to see if they have a rifle with the barrel twist you want.

 

Yeah, not a fan of the stock on the 700 either. To me, the serious plus side of the Remington is the Action... I am really not a big fan of the triggers, but seriously for $100 I can drop a top notch trigger into it. My old 22-250 was a Remington, and it was a great rifle.

 

OK, so I just got myself an opportunity for long range, high yield woodchuck/groundhog hunting. My shop manager is a hunter, and he has taken to a .17 HMR that he built the shit out of.. But we discussed hard core varminters and he is interested in a .223 WSSM build. So now I have a varminting buddy again. Unfortunately I sold my varminter several years back. I have decided I will chamber in 22-250 again, and I am going to handload.

First to the loads; I will be loading 55-65 grain ballistic tips, but I want to keep my options open to include 70 grain, and possibly 80 grain for really long range coyote shoots. With this thought in mind, ideally I want a 9-10 twist, but I have the option of loading 22-250 improved, which will yeild me a bit more speed, and might stretch me out to 11 or even a 12 twist, but this is not ideal with heavier loads.

With that in mind, this is my goal; I want to buy affordable (not opposed to used in good condition), I am looking for something that will shoot very well out of the box, and I would like to have the option for nice upgradeability in the future if I do really wind up doing a lot of varminting.

I have narrowed it down to these options. The Savage Model 12 is at the very top of my list, followed closely by the Remington 700, the Tikka T3 light, and the Browning X-bolt.

The Savage model 12 receives excellent reviews for out of the box performance. The big deal with it is, they are so easy to customize and build. It comes with the accu-trigger, which is the nicest stock offering, and may not even need an upgrade in the future. Also, the barrels are simple to change, and there is a local barrel builder with tons of custom offerings for the Savage actions. I can get into a Model 12 for ~$500 used, spend $300 on a nice bull barrel and really be done with it.

On to the others... The Model 700 is a fantastic action. The barrels require a press to change, and frankly that makes it less appealing to me. I am basically stuck with the stock barrel, unless I want to buy a barrel and have it installed by a smith, making the swap almost twice as expensive as a simple barrel swap on the Savage. The trigger group will have to be swapped out in the future, without a doubt. The Tikka T3 is a damn fine gun. I have a T3 Hunter in .270 WSM. The action is very smooth and well controlled and the shortest out of the selected group, the gun is exceptionally accurate right out of the box, I can swap barrels easily (which I will have to do as the Lite needs a better barrel as all Tikka 22-250s are 14 twists). The Browning... I love the feel of the A and X bolts. I always have. But I have never had the pleasure of shooting one, personally. This is more of a "I have always wanted" rather then an "I really researched it and" kind of a deal.

Anyone with any input on any of these choices, or any other options? My goal is to initially spend less that $600, new or used. Glass is handled already.

I would take the Savage, then the Tika. I would not consider the other too much.

The 700 is cool if you want to do a shit load of upgrades but as you mentioned the savage is the best out of the box. Even the barrels are known to be lasers from the box. The only thing that stopped me from just buying one and being done is that I hate the stocks. None of them fit me well.

 

I like the fact that the model 12 offers a 9.5 twist as well. I can easily lob 80 grain rounds several hundred rounds out with it. It is essentially a match grade round at that weight with that twist and a heavy load. I can also comfortably shoot 60 grainers without burning up the barrel, but lift and burn may be an issue with anything under 60.

 

Part of me wants to have a 12-14 twist so I can toss 35 grain chunks over 4000 FPS that explode on impact. When I was a kid I shot woodchucks at 300 yards with 35 and 40 grain rounds, but if they hit anything on the way they blew up. Check it out (WMV FWIW). They are moving so fast and they have so little mass to them that they shatter. While it is fairly worthless, it is still fun to have a round that behaves like that. But really, with the Savage I can swap barrels in 30 minutes and do just that.

 

I do love my Tikka, and that is really why it is on my list. But the thought of having to buy a barrel immediately sucks. With their 14 twist barrel I have no other option. No matter what trim I buy it in (Lite, Hunter, Varminter) the twist rate is 14.

[dem beats 1,223]

Savage or Remmy then.

I think savage is the winner. I don't know if I care about the "smooth" Remington action VS Savage. I think the Savage is fine and neither are as buttery, if you will, as Sako or Tika.

[dem beats 1,223]

My roommates 7mm Remington mag is slick and awesome. And it is an older well loved action.

The Remington I have shot are nice, but I would rather be behind a Savage. I think the trigger is one of the best. And if you get bored you can still drop in something awesome. The Sako TRG is my absolute favorite action and trigger combo on a stock rifle, and the Savage is closer to that than the Remington.

[///M5 2,833]

Damn Sean, I am sorry. Ice and make sure you take the meds. As they wear off you might be starting to get more tense and/or not as high so you are trying to do more.

ALways when I stretch it. I am being VERY restful...it sucks.

[///M5 2,833]

I realize that those don't use water so the ruining won't happen, but if there are stains they willbe set in.

 

There are ways to wet clean dry clean only fabrics.  We used a special system on drapery and other textiles in F&W resto.

Not really. ie, you will do damage to them.

The difference between wet & dry cleaning is the fibers absorb water when wet, swell, and then shrink as it evaportates. You can make the process more gentle but on some fibers this is brutal.

Mens wool dress pants are a great example. You can dry clean them 1000's of times, wash them and after about 15 washings they will be shot, shrunk to wear they look funny and not hold a press. Damage is easily visible to me with a single washing.

[///M5 2,833]

I will add all three times are at about 5-5:30 hours post Vicadin.

Well I know that I would be taking it every 5 hours then. Hope you feel better man.

Going to time the Ibuprofen to be at peak during the last hour. Figure that might help. And make sure I do no movement hardly at that time.

[///M5 2,833]

Not sure why I thought that. 20 would make you rather young since I am not 40 yet...

 

I said I am 15 to 20 older... and I am if you aren't yet 40.

Ha, ok then. Not sure why I thought you were 38. Reading on pain killers > me.

You had to own some uber slow dial up then.

 

 

Dude, I remember when we didn't have internet... or Windows. My first "computer" was a Commodore VIC20. We didn't have CDs or DVDs, it had a fucking tape deck for media/storage.

My first computer had a C1P processor in it.

[Adrian_D 520]

made it to amsterdam in one piece, after spending the whole night in london, walking around. london was seriously deserted on a friday night from 1am to 7 am. also got to see some pretty cool cars, including a noble m12

[Adrian_D 520]

but now i'm beat, time to sleepand be rested for tomorrow's xoncert, going to "the wall"

[shizzzon 461]

but now i'm beat, time to sleepand be rested for tomorrow's xoncert, going to "the wall"

 

Ah, i seen the Wall last year, it was awesome.

[Adrian_D 520]

we barely managed to snag some tickets in amsterdam. missed in bucharest and in berlin

[shizzzon 461]

Im surprised it's still running.  How long of a tour is this?  20 yrs? lol

[///M5 2,833]

made it to amsterdam in one piece, after spending the whole night in london, walking around. london was seriously deserted on a friday night from 1am to 7 am. also got to see some pretty cool cars, including a noble m12

funny on the week when I put 100mi on one

[ssh 924]

Fucking protein shake bottles. I swore the lid was shut. Starting shaking and shit flew everywhere in the kitchen.

[ssh 924]

 

I will add all three times are at about 5-5:30 hours post Vicadin.

Well I know that I would be taking it every 5 hours then. Hope you feel better man.

 

Going to time the Ibuprofen to be at peak during the last hour. Figure that might help. And make sure I do no movement hardly at that time.

What were you in for?

[///M5 2,833]

An inguinal hernia.

[///M5 2,833]

Was a bit fucking huge at the end, way more than 8" long

[///M5 2,833]

My balls ache too, yay.

[ssh 924]

An inguinal hernia.

That's ironic. I was contemplating making an old man joke about going in for a hernia.

[MKader17 332]

Decided to go the cheap route on my multi room audio. Running an RCA splitter from the TV. One goes to 3.5mm input to the T-amp, the other goes into the Adcom preamp. The Adcom powers the BIBs and the T-Amp powers the in walls in the bathroom and dining room/kitchen. Done for now.

Also have an "HTPC" now. Running the work laptop to the TV to run Hulu Plus and ESPN 3.

Ballin on a budget!

[dem beats 1,223]

I will add all three times are at about 5-5:30 hours post Vicadin.

Well I know that I would be taking it every 5 hours then. Hope you feel better man.

Going to time the Ibuprofen to be at peak during the last hour. Figure that might help. And make sure I do no movement hardly at that time.

I would have suggested this if I knew you could take IBU also. Usually when on vicoden they don't like the Tylenol and ibuprofen mix.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

An inguinal hernia.

 

There's a sex joke somewhere, but I'm too lazy to make it

[///M5 2,833]

I will add all three times are at about 5-5:30 hours post Vicadin.

Well I know that I would be taking it every 5 hours then. Hope you feel better man.

Going to time the Ibuprofen to be at peak during the last hour. Figure that might help. And make sure I do no movement hardly at that time.

I would have suggested this if I knew you could take IBU also. Usually when on vicoden they don't like the Tylenol and ibuprofen mix.

its hydrocordone. My wife told me it was vicadin and I didnt look until 5 min ago, lol

[Penguin4x4 1,761]