Welcome to the IHoP v.2

[///M5 2,833]

Tomorrow I'm meeting with the owner and going over everything, but it's wild to hear someone say "yeah you'll have your own office and a set of keys, you can use it whenever for whatever."

This should help take a dent out of college cost.

Don't spend your money on student loans. Just volunteer for a few years and your loans are paid off. Seriously.

Pluss you need a Benzito

Volunteer? There's a few internships I've been looking at over summers, and for a PhD it looks like I could find funding from TA, research, fellowship, but for my BS or masters route I figured it was pretty much all coming out of pocket. Then again I don't know that much about the financials of college.

 

ya thats pretty much correct, i haven't heard of anyone getting a masters for free but phd's in the sciences are (and if it isn't, don't go there).  i'll be applying for schools this fall/winter

My cousin got her Masters for nothing, and is doing the same for her Phd. She got her Bachelors at the U of A and then got into a job in admissions. She pays some crazy amount like $20 per credit hour, and she just received 10k from some sort of grant that she doesn't need to pay back.

 

Rare for the masters degree to be free. your cousin must be pretty fucking smart. Typically a phd student receives free tuition and a stipends of roughly 20k a year.  maybe less for a TA or more for a RA. then you have the grants and other shit. 

 

My friend's gf did her masters in Industrial Engineering at PSU  but had to pay full tuition. I think she tutored for a little more than minimum wage. However, she got a job before graduating and now makes some pretty serious bank.

Getting a Masters is somewhat irrelevant, either go all the way or don't bother.

In chemistry I know once you get a PhD you've immediately limited job opportunities.

Completely untrue.

From what I've read from those that hire in the field, and from chemists I know they wouldn't agree.

NO company prefers to hire the less capable person for the job. I never said you'd be paid more for the PhD although in reality it is usually the case, but it does NOTHING negative for you getting a position. Not ever. If you want to pull out the exception of the $30k/yr starting blah blah blah, well that is a joke anyway.

[///M5 2,833]

Tomorrow I'm meeting with the owner and going over everything, but it's wild to hear someone say "yeah you'll have your own office and a set of keys, you can use it whenever for whatever."

This should help take a dent out of college cost.

Don't spend your money on student loans. Just volunteer for a few years and your loans are paid off. Seriously.

Pluss you need a Benzito

Volunteer? There's a few internships I've been looking at over summers, and for a PhD it looks like I could find funding from TA, research, fellowship, but for my BS or masters route I figured it was pretty much all coming out of pocket. Then again I don't know that much about the financials of college.

 

ya thats pretty much correct, i haven't heard of anyone getting a masters for free but phd's in the sciences are (and if it isn't, don't go there).  i'll be applying for schools this fall/winter

My cousin got her Masters for nothing, and is doing the same for her Phd. She got her Bachelors at the U of A and then got into a job in admissions. She pays some crazy amount like $20 per credit hour, and she just received 10k from some sort of grant that she doesn't need to pay back.

 

Rare for the masters degree to be free. your cousin must be pretty fucking smart. Typically a phd student receives free tuition and a stipends of roughly 20k a year.  maybe less for a TA or more for a RA. then you have the grants and other shit. 

 

My friend's gf did her masters in Industrial Engineering at PSU  but had to pay full tuition. I think she tutored for a little more than minimum wage. However, she got a job before graduating and now makes some pretty serious bank.

Getting a Masters is somewhat irrelevant, either go all the way or don't bother.

In chemistry I know once you get a PhD you've immediately limited job opportunities.

Completely untrue.

From what I've read from those that hire in the field, and from chemists I know they wouldn't agree.

NO company prefers to hire the less capable person for the job. I never said you'd be paid more for the PhD although in reality it is usually the case, but it does NOTHING negative for you getting a position. Not ever. If you want to pull out the exception of the $30k/yr starting blah blah blah,I'd say that isn't what you were talking about. 3M is hiring PhD chemists ALL the time up here.

[///M5 2,833]

Resumes with PhDs / PhDs & masters are often thrown out first for job applications that require a BS or masters. At least in the field of chemistry.

Never. Salary requirements get someone thrown out, not experience or education unless again it is a very rudimentary role

[///M5 2,833]

In sales the most important thing is to have the ability to wax poetically when needed, but to spend more time asking questions and earning trust. Then following through honestly.

I am given to asking questions back when a guest asks me a question once I have developed rapport. Usually they don't even know what or how to ask something, and the information they want has nothing to do with the question they asked. So leading the sales process by helping the customer to feel in charge is a big part of it.

Active listening is exhausting. And paying attention to signals can be tough. Most people cannot do it in a professional setting at all.

Have you ever read "what every body is saying?" It's about body language. Pretty good book, definitely inline with your work.

I have not. The tough part about body language is that sometimes someone crossing their arms and leaning away just has a cold.

But I do use the basics just because law of averages works in favor for me if I take it into consideration.

 

I never could trust the crossed arms idea, especially if the conversation flows naturally. Also I have a habit of crossing my arms even if my actual intentions are not to be closed but open.

You aren't reading into it right. Your habit is dealing with social insecurity if I were to take a guess.

[///M5 2,833]

Damn guest from last night is comming in to cancel. Won't give me the real objection. Damn.

What is his pretext? Time for the AAA...

AAA?

His pretext is he wants to wait to buy a more expensive bed later, and that they all feel the same to him anyway. Normally I'm not even annoyed with refunds, but I stayed late and basically took a huge risk on the price to close the deal.

Depending on how you look at it, he got a better deal than I can get myself or give family.

Acknowledge, Ask, ANything else.

[///M5 2,833]

I'm just saying that's what I've heard from the hiring departments at Genentech. Aegis Sciences, Proven, ACS, and from those in the field I know. Not a huge sampling size, but enough to take it into consideration.

Re-ask the question differently, you'll get the right answer.

[ssh 924]

Resumes with PhDs / PhDs & masters are often thrown out first for job applications that require a BS or masters. At least in the field of chemistry.

Never. Salary requirements get someone thrown out, not experience or education unless again it is a very rudimentary role

Alright well I'm done with this topic.

[///M5 2,833]

I'm just saying that's what I've heard from the hiring departments at Genentech. Aegis Sciences, Proven, ACS, and from those in the field I know. Not a huge sampling size, but enough to take it into consideration.

Fuckin crazy man. Why?

They suspect the person won't be happy in the position since they're over qualified, and they'll leave once another job opens up. That's the jist.

That is bullshit. NO ONE stays at an entry level job for more than three years. What does education have to do with that?

[///M5 2,833]

Resumes with PhDs / PhDs & masters are often thrown out first for job applications that require a BS or masters. At least in the field of chemistry.

They don't know how to write a resume. And if they feel that it hurts them then simply apply with only the masters listed.

 

That's what I do, tailor the resume for the job. "High school diploma or GED"? No sir, never been to college! "Bachelor's degree in a related field"? Yes sir, I've been to college!

I'm presuming they would look further into one's credentials if they're left on the list, and would likely find out the other degrees weren't listed, but I could be wrong. :shrugs:

I've never checked and I've hired a lot of people

[///M5 2,833]

Because 1,750 HP:

 

Why would someone put 1700hp in a fugged out crossfire?

[///M5 2,833]

Resumes with PhDs / PhDs & masters are often thrown out first for job applications that require a BS or masters. At least in the field of chemistry.

They don't know how to write a resume. And if they feel that it hurts them then simply apply with only the masters listed.

That's what I do, tailor the resume for the job. "High school diploma or GED"? No sir, never been to college! "Bachelor's degree in a related field"? Yes sir, I've been to college!

I'm presuming they would look further into one's credentials if they're left on the list, and would likely find out the other degrees weren't listed, but I could be wrong. :shrugs:

They don't look into it until they are absolutely interested in hiring, and at that point they won't just cast the applicant asside because they will assume the guy wants the job.

However an HR rep who overlooks someone with a higher degree is an idiot. Resume matters more.

It still falls back to being overqualified--regardless of resume.

Brainwashed in the wrong way. The only difference between a PhD and a Masters is 2 years of work experience. Hell regularly the work experience is more useful. If you think you are high and holy with a lowly PhD well then yes, you aren't getting a fucking job. Has NOTHING to do with being overqualifed, that is fucking laughable. I'd take work experience success over education ANY day of the week on my team. Although that being said, I have three PhD's and three Masters working for me as sales guys.

[ssh 924]

I'm just saying that's what I've heard from the hiring departments at Genentech. Aegis Sciences, Proven, ACS, and from those in the field I know. Not a huge sampling size, but enough to take it into consideration.

Re-ask the question differently, you'll get the right answer.

 

Q:

I have a Ph.D. and have applied for bachelor’s- and master’s-level

positions that I think I’m more than qualified for. Why am I not

getting the job?

A:

Dow: It’s difficult for employers to hire somebody who’s above

what they need because they know that you’re not going to be happy in

that role. It’s easy for people to say, ‘No, that’s not the case, I

absolutely will be,’ but companies are just not willing to take that

chance. They know that once things turn around, you’ll be looking to

leave.

 

Roth: We typically would not look at a Ph.D. for bachelor’s-

and master’s-level positions because they often come in with

expectations about what their career development should look like, and

we worry about creating a two-tiered system for Ph.D.s where we have

some who are managers and others who work at the bench. The concern is

that you’ll create a lot of unhappy people who are Ph.D.s, but they’re

simply working at the bench and have no real opportunity to move up the

scientist career ladder. I can’t say we would never hire a Ph.D. for a

bachelor’s or master’s position, but at least we’ve not done it up to

this point.

 

Frishberg: The worst result is you get the job you hate as

opposed to getting the job that’s a good fit and that you love. Don’t

forget to consider what that job will look like on your résumé and the

value of any references from it. Your employer has important things to

do and needs you to come in with a commitment to help do them, not spend

half your time wondering why you’re there, with one foot out the door.

http://www.cen-online.org/articles/91/i7/Getting-Help-Getting-Hired.html

 

I'm not saying that sole article represents the entire field, but from all the other articles I've read online and from the people I've talked to with PhDs in chemistry they agree, so that's why I have this point of view.

[///M5 2,833]

Every human is overqualified for labor, but some people wanna do it.

You're missing my point entirely.

There are people with PhDs in chemistry who apply for jobs that require a BS or masters because they can't find anything else and they're willing to do the work, and companies won't hire them because they're "overqualified."

It's not about chemists not willing to work a "lower" job, it's about companies not willing to give them the chance because they believe the chemist will leave with the next opportunity.

That's all my point ever was: PhD in (bio)chemistry reduces some job opportunities.

And I'm talking about jobs in the chemistry field, not outside it.

Your experience is jaded with misinformation.

I will tell you this, a ton of PhD's get looked over these days because they aren't native. That is the single handedly largest reason why a PhD doesn't get considered.

[///M5 2,833]

It's not about chemists not willing to work a "lower" job, it's about companies not willing to give them the chance because they believe the chemist will leave with the next opportunity.

 

This applies to pretty much any company hiring for any position. That's why I withhold my education when applying for McD's, Wally World, etc.

That makes no sense either. Put it in context and give them a reason to hire you and you will get the job. It is really that simple

[///M5 2,833]

I'm just saying that's what I've heard from the hiring departments at Genentech. Aegis Sciences, Proven, ACS, and from those in the field I know. Not a huge sampling size, but enough to take it into consideration.

Re-ask the question differently, you'll get the right answer.

 

Q:

I have a Ph.D. and have applied for bachelor’s- and master’s-level

positions that I think I’m more than qualified for. Why am I not

getting the job?

A:

Dow: It’s difficult for employers to hire somebody who’s above

what they need because they know that you’re not going to be happy in

that role. It’s easy for people to say, ‘No, that’s not the case, I

absolutely will be,’ but companies are just not willing to take that

chance. They know that once things turn around, you’ll be looking to

leave.

 

Roth: We typically would not look at a Ph.D. for bachelor’s-

and master’s-level positions because they often come in with

expectations about what their career development should look like, and

we worry about creating a two-tiered system for Ph.D.s where we have

some who are managers and others who work at the bench. The concern is

that you’ll create a lot of unhappy people who are Ph.D.s, but they’re

simply working at the bench and have no real opportunity to move up the

scientist career ladder. I can’t say we would never hire a Ph.D. for a

bachelor’s or master’s position, but at least we’ve not done it up to

this point.

 

Frishberg: The worst result is you get the job you hate as

opposed to getting the job that’s a good fit and that you love. Don’t

forget to consider what that job will look like on your résumé and the

value of any references from it. Your employer has important things to

do and needs you to come in with a commitment to help do them, not spend

half your time wondering why you’re there, with one foot out the door.

http://www.cen-online.org/articles/91/i7/Getting-Help-Getting-Hired.html

 

I'm not saying that sole article represents the entire field, but from all the other articles I've read online and from the people I've talked to with PhDs in chemistry they agree, so that's why I have this point of view.

Sounds like some of the nutritional articles you've cited. There will always be someone citing one thing or the other. Real world experience tells differently. Currently it is hard as fucking hell to find anyone technical that is worth a shit. I know a lot of companies with open hiring rec's and they take months to fill. On average more than 6. This includes chemists.

[///M5 2,833]

If you are referring to jobs where they want a lab rat to mix chemicals for $25k/yr starting working up to $40k/yr 20 years later then yes I can see the point. Pretty much guarantee you aren't talking about taking that sort of job regardless of whether you even get a college degree. And it isn't because of the pay, but the responsibility.

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

 

It's not about chemists not willing to work a "lower" job, it's about companies not willing to give them the chance because they believe the chemist will leave with the next opportunity.

 

This applies to pretty much any company hiring for any position. That's why I withhold my education when applying for McD's, Wally World, etc.

 

That makes no sense either. Put it in context and give them a reason to hire you and you will get the job. It is really that simple

 

This does not work for McD's, Wally World, or Pizza Hut applications. There are a few others that I can't remember at the moment. Education, work history, references, criminal history, questionnaire. They don't ask for, and do not provide a space for, skills, goals, experiences, awards, or projects. These really aren't "entry level" jobs, they're just minimum wage shit jobs.

 

Now, if the application does have space for skills, experiences, goals, etc., then yeah I'm going to tell them my education and how I can be beneficial to their business.

[///M5 2,833]

It's not about chemists not willing to work a "lower" job, it's about companies not willing to give them the chance because they believe the chemist will leave with the next opportunity.

 

This applies to pretty much any company hiring for any position. That's why I withhold my education when applying for McD's, Wally World, etc.

That makes no sense either. Put it in context and give them a reason to hire you and you will get the job. It is really that simple

 

This does not work for McD's, Wally World, or Pizza Hut applications. There are a few others that I can't remember at the moment. Education, work history, references, criminal history, questionnaire. They don't ask for, and do not provide a space for, skills, goals, experiences, awards, or projects. These really aren't "entry level" jobs, they're just minimum wage shit jobs.

 

Now, if the application does have space for skills, experiences, goals, etc., then yeah I'm going to tell them my education and how I can be beneficial to their business.

Number one way to fail in any application is to just fill out a form, that isn't even applying IMO.

[ssh 924]

I'm just saying that's what I've heard from the hiring departments at Genentech. Aegis Sciences, Proven, ACS, and from those in the field I know. Not a huge sampling size, but enough to take it into consideration.

Re-ask the question differently, you'll get the right answer.

Q:

I have a Ph.D. and have applied for bachelor’s- and master’s-level

positions that I think I’m more than qualified for. Why am I not

getting the job?

A:

Dow: It’s difficult for employers to hire somebody who’s above

what they need because they know that you’re not going to be happy in

that role. It’s easy for people to say, ‘No, that’s not the case, I

absolutely will be,’ but companies are just not willing to take that

chance. They know that once things turn around, you’ll be looking to

leave.

Roth: We typically would not look at a Ph.D. for bachelor’s-

and master’s-level positions because they often come in with

expectations about what their career development should look like, and

we worry about creating a two-tiered system for Ph.D.s where we have

some who are managers and others who work at the bench. The concern is

that you’ll create a lot of unhappy people who are Ph.D.s, but they’re

simply working at the bench and have no real opportunity to move up the

scientist career ladder. I can’t say we would never hire a Ph.D. for a

bachelor’s or master’s position, but at least we’ve not done it up to

this point.

Frishberg: The worst result is you get the job you hate as

opposed to getting the job that’s a good fit and that you love. Don’t

forget to consider what that job will look like on your résumé and the

value of any references from it. Your employer has important things to

do and needs you to come in with a commitment to help do them, not spend

half your time wondering why you’re there, with one foot out the door.

http://www.cen-online.org/articles/91/i7/Getting-Help-Getting-Hired.html

I'm not saying that sole article represents the entire field, but from all the other articles I've read online and from the people I've talked to with PhDs in chemistry they agree, so that's why I have this point of view.

Sounds like some of the nutritional articles you've cited. There will always be someone citing one thing or the other. Real world experience tells differently. Currently it is hard as fucking hell to find anyone technical that is worth a shit. I know a lot of companies with open hiring rec's and they take months to fill. On average more than 6. This includes chemists.

Have you hired chemists, or can you talk to those in companies that you work with that do hire chemists, and ask them? Because I'm honestly curious as to what they would say to the question. Edited August 31, 2013 by ssh

[Penguin4x4 1,761]

 

 

 

It's not about chemists not willing to work a "lower" job, it's about companies not willing to give them the chance because they believe the chemist will leave with the next opportunity.

 

This applies to pretty much any company hiring for any position. That's why I withhold my education when applying for McD's, Wally World, etc.

 

That makes no sense either. Put it in context and give them a reason to hire you and you will get the job. It is really that simple

 

 

This does not work for McD's, Wally World, or Pizza Hut applications. There are a few others that I can't remember at the moment. Education, work history, references, criminal history, questionnaire. They don't ask for, and do not provide a space for, skills, goals, experiences, awards, or projects. These really aren't "entry level" jobs, they're just minimum wage shit jobs.

 

Now, if the application does have space for skills, experiences, goals, etc., then yeah I'm going to tell them my education and how I can be beneficial to their business.

 

Number one way to fail in any application is to just fill out a form, that isn't even applying IMO.

 

For a real job, something you can start/make a career out of, you are right. For the minimum wage shit jobs, an application form is plenty.

[dem beats 1,223]

Every human is overqualified for labor, but some people wanna do it.

You're missing my point entirely.

There are people with PhDs in chemistry who apply for jobs that require a BS or masters because they can't find anything else and they're willing to do the work, and companies won't hire them because they're "overqualified."

It's not about chemists not willing to work a "lower" job, it's about companies not willing to give them the chance because they believe the chemist will leave with the next opportunity.

That's all my point ever was: PhD in (bio)chemistry reduces some job opportunities.

And I'm talking about jobs in the chemistry field, not outside it.

No, I didn't miss your point. And we hired chemists at the hospital, and I handled their resumes. We were never instructed to throw out applicants based on too much schooling. Ever.

[dem beats 1,223]

Resumes with PhDs / PhDs & masters are often thrown out first for job applications that require a BS or masters. At least in the field of chemistry.

Never. Salary requirements get someone thrown out, not experience or education unless again it is a very rudimentary role

To expand on that, many times we would hire new grads for jobs below their education. Guys with masters doing basic shit. They were Fucking hungry and usually prompt, and if they moved on, they give notice and it's easy to find someone else.

Maybe a guy who used to run an entire lab would have some trouble finding a job scrubbing beekers, but they just don't throw the resume out.

My father in law got the "overqualified" line a lot. And it was because his resume and comments in an interview made him sound set in his ways, because he is. He changed his resume and his attitude and nailed a job ASAP.

[dem beats 1,223]

Resumes with PhDs / PhDs & masters are often thrown out first for job applications that require a BS or masters. At least in the field of chemistry.

Never. Salary requirements get someone thrown out, not experience or education unless again it is a very rudimentary role

Alright well I'm done with this topic.

With that attitude even faking a master's to cover up your PHD won't help.

Edited August 31, 2013 by dem beats

[dem beats 1,223]

Damn guest from last night is comming in to cancel. Won't give me the real objection. Damn.

What is his pretext? Time for the AAA...

AAA?

His pretext is he wants to wait to buy a more expensive bed later, and that they all feel the same to him anyway. Normally I'm not even annoyed with refunds, but I stayed late and basically took a huge risk on the price to close the deal.

Depending on how you look at it, he got a better deal than I can get myself or give family.

Acknowledge, Ask, ANything else.

Ooooh. I never heard that. I did that when I saw him. He was clearly lying and must have been embarrassed.

Went from 100% rapport last night to lying to my face today, and then when I called him on it, he said "you are right" and still asked to return it. Failed at finding out the truth, but I didn't beat him up so bad that he will tell the neighbors I shamed him.

Just let it go and moved on. It's volume weekend, and his sale was a tiny percentage. I took it personal because of the extra effort and lost time with my family last night. I haven't had someone keep me late, purchase happily, and then lie to my face the next morning before... Or if I have it was 10 years ago and I was hung over per my usual sales weekends.

Lol

[dem beats 1,223]

Because 1,750 HP:

Why would someone put 1700hp in a fugged out crossfire?

I kind of like it's overall look. Clean look inside. Some of the fins are stupid, but overall it is kinda cool.