Loud front stage opinions (SQ guys beware, lol)

[swift 501]

I really cant decide between running 3 6.5's per door or running 3 8's per door. I think the 8's would give a more "full" sound with better midbass. Im still considering running all Crescendo front stage since I have 2 8's in the garage and also have 2 tweeters already. I also already have 2 Rockford 6.5's. So I'm torn which way to go

3 - 8in Crescendo PWX's and 2 FT1 super tweeters per door.

or

3 - 6.5in Rockford Punch Pro and 2 PP8-T super tweeters per door.

I could do 2 mids and 1 tweeter per door but not sure if it will keep up at 155db+ of bass and I only want to do the doors once.

Crescendo's are very heavy, large magnet, 4in deep and the FT1's are relatively small and can be reconed easily.

Rockfords are not as heavy and 3in deep but the tweeters are fuckin HUGE.

I need to order something soon though. I'm ready to get this going. If I do the doors they will receive a sealed enclosed pod that will be mounted to the door, If I pay someone else to fiberglass a door panel then from what I have seen the panels will be done and the mids will somewhat free air into the door. Power comes from a Crescendo C1100.4

Dont know why I cant seem to make my mind up.

[eggyhustles 33]

Im assuming you just want something that's gonna be loud?

I've never heard a good setup with a super tweet.

[Impious 1,476]

I've never heard a good setup with a super tweet.

You're not going to.

HLCD + one large pro audio midbass per door is what I would do. Sound 1000% better than your plans and considering HLCD can get loud enough to literally deafen you output isn't a problem either.

[///M5 2,833]

/ agreed

You already have one set of FT1's, how is it that you think you need more? I'm seriously concerned over how you have it all setup.

[Frostedflakejake 148]

You don't need that many supertweeters. I wouldn't even put one in my vehicle.

To give you reference, my friend walled off his grand prix with 4 15"s and ran a 151db legal. He had two sets of components in each door. So, two 6.5 and two dome tweeters per door. That kept up just fine with the bass.

I would suggest you go listen to some super tweeters before investing. In my opinion, all the ones i've heard are horribly harsh. Like, ear bleedingly harsh

[///M5 2,833]

He already owns a pair and likes them.

At the same time, you will be absolutely shocked and excited to hear how much more of the audible range the HCLD's can play. WAY, WAY, WAY more.

Only application I've heard for Supertweets that has been successful was in a 4 way front stage.

[Julian 641]

my single set of RF Pro audio keeps up just fine with my 155+db monster.

[swift 501]

You don't need that many supertweeters. I wouldn't even put one in my vehicle.

To give you reference, my friend walled off his grand prix with 4 15"s and ran a 151db legal. He had two sets of components in each door. So, two 6.5 and two dome tweeters per door. That kept up just fine with the bass.

I would suggest you go listen to some super tweeters before investing. In my opinion, all the ones i've heard are horribly harsh. Like, ear bleedingly harsh

I already have one PA 6.5 and one super tweeter in each door now. I know exactly how it sounds and my current front stage active sounds better than 90% of the passive components I have heard, honestly . You probably arent the one to be giving advice in this thread is if your opinion comes from your buddies truck. And also not trying to say anything but my truck on one amp would shit all over your friends 151. And seeing how I am doubling my power it will be even worse. The difference between 151-157 is not even remotely close. My setup kept up perfectly with the 2 18's I had that did 150's, but it does not keep up enough with the 3 18's walled. Not full tilt.

[eggyhustles 33]

LOL

People seem to have their minds made up ....yet still ask for opinions

i don't get it.

[swift 501]

I've never heard a good setup with a super tweet.

You're not going to.

HLCD + one large pro audio midbass per door is what I would do. Sound 1000% better than your plans and considering HLCD can get loud enough to literally deafen you output isn't a problem either.

Can you link me to some good examples of these HLCD's you are referring to.

/ agreed

You already have one set of FT1's, how is it that you think you need more? I'm seriously concerned over how you have it all setup.

Tweeters are 18 slope crossed at 4k

Mids are 24 slope crossed at 80 and 18 slope crossed at 4k

I am really pleased with the current setup, lacks midbass but I can live with that. I just need it louder but staying just as clear as it is now.

[Impious 1,476]

I've never heard a good setup with a super tweet.

You're not going to.

HLCD + one large pro audio midbass per door is what I would do. Sound 1000% better than your plans and considering HLCD can get loud enough to literally deafen you output isn't a problem either.

Can you link me to some good examples of these HLCD's you are referring to.

Image Dynamics & USD are two main HLCDs. You can usually find them in the used market for ~$300 or so. Or you can even sometimes find just the horn bodies themselves & then get a compression driver from places like Parts Express.

The large bodies play down to ~800hz with a good compression driver, sensitivity in the 105-109db range, controlled dispersion. They need some EQ work to sound great but even un-eq'd they'd shit all over a supertweeter.

[bassahaulic 155]

People always seem to go way over kill on the mids/highs department.

We have 2 RF punch 6.5" co-aixs per door, powered by a Power 800.4AD in our shop truck, it has 6 15"s and 9,000w, it keeps up all day long.

My PT has a single Type X component set on a DD C5b, and it keeps up with my bass.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Doesn't BMS make a smallish Neo HLCD

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

I'd prefer this over a super tweeter any day.

Edited December 8, 2012 by Quentin Jarrell

[///M5 2,833]

I've never heard a good setup with a super tweet.

You're not going to.

HLCD + one large pro audio midbass per door is what I would do. Sound 1000% better than your plans and considering HLCD can get loud enough to literally deafen you output isn't a problem either.

Can you link me to some good examples of these HLCD's you are referring to.

/\ agreed

You already have one set of FT1's, how is it that you think you need more? I'm seriously concerned over how you have it all setup.

Tweeters are 18 slope crossed at 4k

Mids are 24 slope crossed at 80 and 18 slope crossed at 4k

I am really pleased with the current setup, lacks midbass but I can live with that. I just need it louder but staying just as clear as it is now.

Crossover setup is an indicator to FR, but in this case a misnomer. Those mids sound like shit playing 4k and have no capability to play actual midbass.

And yes, I too was suckered into using supertweets in my own car....just happened to be before you were born most likely.

People always seem to go way over kill on the mids/highs department.

We have 2 RF punch 6.5" co-aixs per door, powered by a Power 800.4AD in our shop truck, it has 6 15"s and 9,000w, it keeps up all day long.

My PT has a single Type X component set on a DD C5b, and it keeps up with my bass.

Keep up is rather personal. Pretty easy to get a single 8" sub to overpower any coax I've ever heard. Of course my cross points and desires are obviously way different and I'm surely not implying the OP is anything like me.

[swift 501]

I've never heard a good setup with a super tweet.

You're not going to.

HLCD + one large pro audio midbass per door is what I would do. Sound 1000% better than your plans and considering HLCD can get loud enough to literally deafen you output isn't a problem either.

Can you link me to some good examples of these HLCD's you are referring to.

/ agreed

You already have one set of FT1's, how is it that you think you need more? I'm seriously concerned over how you have it all setup.

Tweeters are 18 slope crossed at 4k

Mids are 24 slope crossed at 80 and 18 slope crossed at 4k

I am really pleased with the current setup, lacks midbass but I can live with that. I just need it louder but staying just as clear as it is now.

Crossover setup is an indicator to FR, but in this case a misnomer. Those mids sound like shit playing 4k and have no capability to play actual midbass.

And yes, I too was suckered into using supertweets in my own car....just happened to be before you were born most likely.

People always seem to go way over kill on the mids/highs department.

We have 2 RF punch 6.5" co-aixs per door, powered by a Power 800.4AD in our shop truck, it has 6 15"s and 9,000w, it keeps up all day long.

My PT has a single Type X component set on a DD C5b, and it keeps up with my bass.

Keep up is rather personal. Pretty easy to get a single 8" sub to overpower any coax I've ever heard. Of course my cross points and desires are obviously way different and I'm surely not implying the OP is anything like me.

I have them eq'd to meet my preference. I also don't care a lot about the 4k range honestly. I am eq'd down some there and the 5k range. I like crispy highs but do not like beaming screeching high pitch words. So I eq back up above that.

I doubt you were doing much before I was born besides maybe playing GI Joes. I'm 36 and have been playing with audio in my cars since 92. A wild guess says your early 40's.

If I do multiples they will be arranged close to each other. Close enough where I would think they would sound as one, at least that was my thought.

Edited December 9, 2012 by swift

[Impious 1,476]

Doesn't BMS make a smallish Neo HLCD

BMS makes small compression drivers, but not car audio styles horn lenses. They are supposed to be really good though, and would be a viable option for compression drivers if he had some empty horn bodies.

[Impious 1,476]

If I do multiples they will be arranged close to each other. Close enough where I would think they would sound as one, at least that was my thought.

Proximity is one of several things to consider. Frequency is another. In the midbass you are probably correct, in the midrange you are not. For example, 4khz has a wavelength of 3.375"....unless the center-to-center distance of all of the speakers on the same channel playing that frequency are within that distance of each other (which would be impossible with a 6.5" or larger driver, FYI), then you are going to have acoustic interference issues between the drivers causing problems in the frequency response which would be impossible to fix with an EQ.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

I knew I had seen them used somewhere before.

http://www.usdaudio.com/sw/cars/buick/

[Impious 1,476]

I knew I had seen them used somewhere before.

http://www.usdaudio.com/sw/cars/buick/

These compression drivers from RC's GN should fit in swift's truck no problem

[swift 501]

Well, I wish I could sit in one of these cars with multiple pro audio speakers up front and mess with the settings and see if I like it, but unless I drive to Florida I don't see that happening. Lmao

There has to be a way to get louder without completely sounding like shit. I could try a single 8 and super tweeter in each door and see if that does it but I just cont see me being content with it. The location will need to be the doors unless I could do a single tweeter on axis in the a pillar with the midranges in the doors.

Loud and clear is goal, forget any kind of "stage" I'm not at a concert and don't care if it sounds like its coming from a band sitting on my hood. Yes overkill is the goal here.

What about these monsters. But where would they go?

http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/WL5.pdf

http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/WL4Fe.pdf

Are these good?

http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/8P300Fe.pdf

[///M5 2,833]

There has to be a way to get louder without completely sounding like shit.

Dude, it's easy. You've been told this many times. Get some HLCD's. They will solve your concern and make it WAY, WAY, WAY easier to run 2 way effectively as they not only get loud but have a rather extended frequency response.

[Impious 1,476]

Those compression drivers are designed to be used with a horn. It says right on the white paper that the measurements are taken with two units mounted to a TDWL4....which are about 10" tall by 8" wide, and the whole unit would be 14-15" deep. Not very feasible in a vehicle.

You are right though, there are much better options than supertweeters. I've listed one of the better options: HLCD Car audio style work best in a car as that's where they are designed to be used and have our environmental constraints factored into their design

Keep in mind most of our (well, mine and M5's atleast) are based less on worrying about sound stage as a goal and more about attempting to follow basic tenants of good acoustics while still helping you achieve your goal. Just because sound stage isn't a goal doesn't mean the basic principle's of acoustics should be ignored. Overall results will be much better if you keep the basics in mind.

[Impious 1,476]

There are even a couple sets for sale on DIYMA right now: ID Mini-horns & BMS Mids

[swift 501]

Oh I thought the Beyma's pictured had the horn already attached to it. How do those mids look though?

I will look at the HLCD's. where can I look at maybe purchasing some. I need to do some measuring but I'm open minded.