RF Pro Audio Mids

[OuTLaWeD 110]

I have though myself of using some infinite baffle shallow mount 8in subs and running one in each door for mid bass (60-200) and running my Rockfords 6.5 from 200-4000 like they are now. The Rockford PA speakers sound good, get loud but dont expect alot of midbass. I just cant find anything on Parts express in a dedicated midbass that will handle much power. I guess that doesnt mean they wont get loud but curious of some suggestions. Not trying to highjack thread but trying to add to it. Maybe for both of us, lol. And contrary to what some people say, the Crescendo FT1's sound great and get loud as hell. I have them eq'd well and running them 4k up.....I have them ramped at 4k lower side, 5k a hair higher, and peaking them at 8k and 12k and ramped back down at 16k, 20k. This is my listening preference and they do great.

When playing rock I will switch them to a different setting which is more tame on the 4k,5k and 8k.

see and thats what i was kind of thinking with going with the 8's and 6.5's at first, but then thinking about the range a PA speaker has was thinking that maybe an 8 would handle everything i needed.

[Impious 1,476]

Just the fact it's labeled a PA speaker does not inherently mean it has better "range" than a standard 8" driver. And the main issue with an 8" isn't the genre of speaker it's grouped in with, but rather an inescapable fact of physics known as beaming. As you start approaching frequencies where the wavelength of the sound wave is equal to or less than the diameter the driver, it's off-axis response is going to decrease in amplitude as you increase frequency. Meaning, the off-axis response of an 8" driver is going to be absolutely terrible at the ~4khz needed to mate with a supertweeter. And this is absolutely regardless of speaker; it's directly related to diameter.

Even for a 6.5" speaker 4khz is going to be far less than ideal. If we assume the 6.5" speaker has a 5.5" radiating diameter, then the driver is going to begin beaming around 2400hz. If an 8" speaker has a 7" radiating diameter, then it's going to begin beaming around 1900hz.

[OuTLaWeD 110]

Just the fact it's labeled a PA speaker does not inherently mean it has better "range" than a standard 8" driver. And the main issue with an 8" isn't the genre of speaker it's grouped in with, but rather an inescapable fact of physics known as beaming. As you start approaching frequencies where the wavelength of the sound wave is equal to or less than the diameter the driver, it's off-axis response is going to decrease in amplitude as you increase frequency. Meaning, the off-axis response of an 8" driver is going to be absolutely terrible at the ~4khz needed to mate with a supertweeter. And this is absolutely regardless of speaker; it's directly related to diameter.

Even for a 6.5" speaker 4khz is going to be far less than ideal. If we assume the 6.5" speaker has a 5.5" radiating diameter, then the driver is going to begin beaming around 2400hz. If an 8" speaker has a 7" radiating diameter, then it's going to begin beaming around 1900hz.

thank you for that knowledge Impious. what would your recommendations be?

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

What you have to understand is that when Impious, M5, and Honda read "Pro Audio" they are under the assumption you want pro audio.

We have to first establish that a proper pro audio set up (a live set for example) is designed to create a completely different sound than what these car audio "pro" drivers do.

So do you want that "live" in concert experience? Or do you just want an obnoxious loud set-up?

[Julian 641]

Despite all the facts I am extremely happy with my RF Pro audio. I was surprised how well they sounded and I've gotten many good responses from friends on my setup.

[OuTLaWeD 110]

What you have to understand is that when Impious, M5, and Honda read "Pro Audio" they are under the assumption you want pro audio.

We have to first establish that a proper pro audio set up (a live set for example) is designed to create a completely different sound than what these car audio "pro" drivers do.

So do you want that "live" in concert experience? Or do you just want an obnoxious loud set-up?

i want something that i'll be able to listen to over the sub stage i have plannned and just for your average joe to hear and shit himself by mistaking clarity as sound quality. You understand where i'm getting? obnoxiously loud and clear "Pro" drivers.

[///M5 2,833]

What you have to understand is that when Impious, M5, and Honda read "Pro Audio" they are under the assumption you want pro audio.

We have to first establish that a proper pro audio set up (a live set for example) is designed to create a completely different sound than what these car audio "pro" drivers do.

So do you want that "live" in concert experience? Or do you just want an obnoxious loud set-up?

i want something that i'll be able to listen to over the sub stage i have plannned and just for your average joe to hear and shit himself by mistaking clarity as sound quality. You understand where i'm getting? obnoxiously loud and clear "Pro" drivers.

None of the three of us read pro audio that way. None of us will ever recommend a bullet tweeter in a 2 way. We also would like to understand the whole system and not just comment on a single driver.

Chill's goals were rather obvious...

The solution would be as well, but then mounting locations, processing and such all come into play.

[OuTLaWeD 110]

i'll more than likelly end up getting the RF 360.3 to handle the processing of the whole set up. would you recommend getting a slew of tweets instead of a couple Bullet tweeters to handle the highs for a smoother transition? i know the bullets would have to be crossed over alot higher than some dome tweeters would. i could do a set up with like 3 sets of titanium domes? i know they cross higher than silk, but they would probably be better than bullets

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Then all of our understandings are all different. Mine is sitting in a amplitheather or live concert. His is quote "people shit themselves".

[OuTLaWeD 110]

Then all of our understandings are all different. Mine is sitting in a amplitheather or live concert. His is quote "people shit themselves".

from the sheer volume and clarity of the whole front stage

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

If you haven't heard bullet tweeters they are really really f'ing loud. I personally can't handle one mounted in the front stage of a car.

[///M5 2,833]

i'll more than likelly end up getting the RF 360.3 to handle the processing of the whole set up. would you recommend getting a slew of tweets instead of a couple Bullet tweeters to handle the highs for a smoother transition? i know the bullets would have to be crossed over alot higher than some dome tweeters would. i could do a set up with like 3 sets of titanium domes? i know they cross higher than silk, but they would probably be better than bullets

No, I wouldn't run multiple tweeters. And no metal/titanium/soft dome material has nothing to do with the cross points.

You have to design a system as a system, not just a couple random drivers thrown together.

Then all of our understandings are all different. Mine is sitting in a amplitheather or live concert. His is quote "people shit themselves".

PA = Pro Audio = Type of driver that sacrifices frequency response for sensitivity. Normally used in sound reinforcement which can be in nearly any environment. Chill's posts make it obvious his intent.

[///M5 2,833]

If you haven't heard bullet tweeters they are really really f'ing loud. I personally can't handle one mounted in the front stage of a car.

And that isn't the problem, because it's easy to turn the gain down. In general they sound like ass as well. Add to that the sheer difficulty in mating a mid with them and they are of dubious value.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

I kinda thought that was obvious though.

[OuTLaWeD 110]

i'll more than likelly end up getting the RF 360.3 to handle the processing of the whole set up. would you recommend getting a slew of tweets instead of a couple Bullet tweeters to handle the highs for a smoother transition? i know the bullets would have to be crossed over alot higher than some dome tweeters would. i could do a set up with like 3 sets of titanium domes? i know they cross higher than silk, but they would probably be better than bullets

No, I wouldn't run multiple tweeters. And no metal/titanium/soft dome material has nothing to do with the cross points.

You have to design a system as a system, not just a couple random drivers thrown together.

Then all of our understandings are all different. Mine is sitting in a amplitheather or live concert. His is quote "people shit themselves".

PA = Pro Audio = Type of driver that sacrifices frequency response for sensitivity. Normally used in sound reinforcement which can be in nearly any environment. Chill's posts make it obvious his intent.

now i had always thought you could cross a silk dome lower than that of a metal dome.

[///M5 2,833]

i'll more than likelly end up getting the RF 360.3 to handle the processing of the whole set up. would you recommend getting a slew of tweets instead of a couple Bullet tweeters to handle the highs for a smoother transition? i know the bullets would have to be crossed over alot higher than some dome tweeters would. i could do a set up with like 3 sets of titanium domes? i know they cross higher than silk, but they would probably be better than bullets

No, I wouldn't run multiple tweeters. And no metal/titanium/soft dome material has nothing to do with the cross points.

You have to design a system as a system, not just a couple random drivers thrown together.

Then all of our understandings are all different. Mine is sitting in a amplitheather or live concert. His is quote "people shit themselves".

PA = Pro Audio = Type of driver that sacrifices frequency response for sensitivity. Normally used in sound reinforcement which can be in nearly any environment. Chill's posts make it obvious his intent.

now i had always thought you could cross a silk dome lower than that of a metal dome.

Some you can, some you can't. It has NOTHING to do with the cone material.

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

So, if imaging isn't neccissarily the goal wouldn't it be just as easy to do multiple sets of components to retain clarity but increase volume?

[///M5 2,833]

So, if imaging isn't neccissarily the goal wouldn't it be just as easy to do multiple sets of components to retain clarity but increase volume?

Does constructive and deconstructive interference help clarity?

[Quentin Jarrell 671]

Nonlinearities are caused from a tweeter placed infront of a midrange but tons of manufactures still make coaxials.

I guess u just gotta pick ur pickle.

[///M5 2,833]

Nonlinearities are caused from a tweeter placed infront of a midrange but tons of manufactures still make coaxials.

Completely unrelated. Multiple point sources vs a single? Spacing at higher frequencies is much more a bitch than low.

[OuTLaWeD 110]

what do you think i should stick with M5? go with the 8's in each door and compromise the tweeter or go with a pair of 6.5's in each door? what about tweeter options, whats your opinion? i more than likelly would have thrown an 8in in each door and a bullet tweeter in the A-pillars shooting directly accross the dash at each other.

[///M5 2,833]

What I think you should do is determine what mounting locations and other limitations you have and share some details instead of asking about what drivers. I'd also share what compromises you'd make or rank them.

[OuTLaWeD 110]

i'm not looking for SQ in this build so mounting location won't matter too much. i'm gonna shove some speakers in the doors and either put the tweeters in the A-pillars or low in the doors depending on what type of tweeter i end up with. i think having the bullet tweeters down low will help alot with the "ring" they put out. i think i'm gonna make this alot less confusing and just put a pair of PA mid drivers in each door.

[///M5 2,833]

Lol. Location has a lot more to do with this than SQ. If you aren't willing to try to make a thread don't expect the right answer.

[OuTLaWeD 110]

yeah, but it can't be as technical as your making it though. the sub stage is gonna be HUGE and i just want something loud and clear. imaging and everything else is out the window. a pair of 6.5's in each door and not quite sure what i want to do witht the tweets