Compare Subs

[jcarver 0]

Hey all. I was hoping you all could help me compare and contrast a couple different subs. I’m not going to ask which is better, I’ll make that decision. Just want some input on where each sub may have its strong points, weak points, etc. speaker size is 15”. Amp rms rated power is 2750 at 1 ohm. But after rise etc etc you get the idea. Enclosure will be 3 cu ft ported with about 50 sq in of port.

Subs are as follows

1. Sundown Z v.3

2. SSA XCON

3. SSA ZCON

So not really looking for someone to help me pick a sub just to tell me any experiences they may have had with these subs, especially if you've used both and any thoughts, suggestions, concerns you may have.

Thanks all!

[edouble101 314]

I have owned all three. Z.3 is my top pick based on blend of sq and sheer output.

1. Z.3 great sounding sub, can get crazy loud, handles lots of power power, smaller enclosure requirement

2. XCON sounds good, medium size enclosure

3. ZCON SPL driver, more of a peak at tuning than the other two, handles lots of power, less musical than the other two, largest enclosure requirement.

All three are built in the USA

[basshead7890 128]

I don't know if this will help you, but someone else posted this website awhile back that has some tests.

zv3 http://www.data-bass...ge=driver&id=41

xcon http://www.data-bass...ge=driver&id=39

Edited July 24, 2012 by marq7890

[jcarver 0]

I have owned all three. Z.3 is my top pick based on blend of sq and sheer output.

1. Z.3 great sounding sub, can get crazy loud, handles lots of power power, smaller enclosure requirement

2. XCON sounds good, medium size enclosure

3. ZCON SPL driver, more of a peak at tuning than the other two, handles lots of power, less musical than the other two, largest enclosure requirement.

All three are built in the USA

Thanks. How do you think the z will stand up to that power. Would going .5 ohm and giving it 2700 clamped be overkill? Between the zcon and the z which do you think would take the power better?

And you tell me any more about your experiences with them. Anything at all, box builds, power, metered results etc. I'm so far leaning heavily on the z size but it kills me to know jacob only gave it a 1500 rating but you as well as other say much more is fine. Reminds me of my audioque. Even in an oversized box the rms was way to low.

[jcarver 0]

I don't know if this will help you, but someone else posted this website awhile back that has some tests.

zv3 http://www.data-bass...ge=driver&id=41

xcon http://www.data-bass...ge=driver&id=39

Thanks, I had never seen that site but there is some great information on there. Reading the writeup on the lms ultra it makes me still want that sub lol. What I pulled from that site is the z far exceeds the xcon in most every aspect. How does it compare to the zcons?

[stevemead08 752]

I've had quite a few guys compliment how well my zcons sound. Xcons and zv3 are a better comparison. Zcon outperforms both in output and power handling. My zcons take a DC5ks at .5 each very often. Seeing 160dbs from just 4 15s.

[jcarver 0]

I've had quite a few guys compliment how well my zcons sound. Xcons and zv3 are a better comparison. Zcon outperforms both in output and power handling. My zcons take a DC5ks at .5 each very often. Seeing 160dbs from just 4 15s.

Your not Steve Meade from SMD right?

Is that 1 zcon on 1 DC5k?

Is the 3 cubs going to be to small for the zcon?

As far as power goes I could be doing 2000-2200 clamped at 1ohm or 2700 at .5 ohm (just guestimates at this point based on what others have seen) How would the z hold up to that power? Is that going to be enough to really get the zcons moving. Given the zcon will take the power but I love pushing high excursion subs and I dont know that that much power will get the zcons really moving. What do you think.

Edited July 24, 2012 by jcarver

[stevemead08 752]

No, not him. There are a few team ssa guys doing huge numbers in relatively small power. They don't need a lit to get loud. But can take it if you got it. Yes 1 zcon 15 per 1 dc5k @.5 ohms each.

[jcarver 0]

Well I think I may have just killed my own thread. Given my 3 cube limit I think the z would be a better option or one of the zcons in 12" but I favor the 15s and from what I read 3 cubes is to small for the zcon 15. Let me know if that's not correct

[16K 159]

i think ud be fine running a 15" Zcon in 3 cubes...

[Impious 1,476]

What I pulled from that site is the z far exceeds the xcon in most every aspect.

I'm not sure how or why you gathered that from the site, but I fail to see any real objective information that seems to substantiate that judgment. Hell, they guess at the Xmax of the Z based on nothing more than mechanical noise.......LOL. It simply looks to me like they took more time to subjectively review the Z than they did the Xcon.

I'm not saying the Xcon is the best choice or a better sub, just suggesting that your interpretation of that site and it's information is a little inaccurate, IMO.

[Sencheezy 689]

I've never ran none of the subs you've mentioned besides the F.i. UFO BTL, SSA Icon, and the Zcon. Currently I'm running my 15" Zcon ona BC5500 @ 1ohm daily, the enclosure is 4.5 @ 34hz. I love it. And many of my friends have also stated how clear it sounds. Its truely amazing imo. So clear, so loud, and a lot of output. I will be getting metered this weekend. I've also heard great things about the Sundown woofers. One of the main selling points, is the amount of space required.

[edouble101 314]

I have owned all three. Z.3 is my top pick based on blend of sq and sheer output.

1. Z.3 great sounding sub, can get crazy loud, handles lots of power power, smaller enclosure requirement

2. XCON sounds good, medium size enclosure

3. ZCON SPL driver, more of a peak at tuning than the other two, handles lots of power, less musical than the other two, largest enclosure requirement.

All three are built in the USA

Thanks. How do you think the z will stand up to that power. Would going .5 ohm and giving it 2700 clamped be overkill? Between the zcon and the z which do you think would take the power better?

And you tell me any more about your experiences with them. Anything at all, box builds, power, metered results etc. I'm so far leaning heavily on the z size but it kills me to know jacob only gave it a 1500 rating but you as well as other say much more is fine. Reminds me of my audioque. Even in an oversized box the rms was way to low.

I am running a single Z.3 18" on a DD M3a and I havent had any issues at all. Give it what you got.

The Z.3 is a "sql" type driver whereas the zcon is an "spl" driver. Completely different sound. As you see some people are happy with the way the zcon sounds. In reality it is the complete opposite of an sq driver. It all depends on your goals.

For instance : optimally the Z.3 15 needs 3 cubes net of enclosure space, the zcon 15 needs 5 cubes net. Expect almost double the enclosure size from Z.3 to zcon to get the most out of those subs.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

I don't know if this will help you, but someone else posted this website awhile back that has some tests.

zv3 http://www.data-bass...ge=driver&id=41

xcon http://www.data-bass...ge=driver&id=39

I need to email that website and correct some info.

[Notorious97200 339]

I thought I've read somewhere that the Zcon needs less net volume than the Xcon, and so, a 3 ft3 box would be nice.

For the power you want to use, I'd get the Zcon.

But I must admit I'd like to try a Sundown Z some day ! (I want to try a Zcon before !!!).

Sundown is a brand that I like a lot. As I like SSA !

good luck. It's up to you, OP.

[jcarver 0]

What I pulled from that site is the z far exceeds the xcon in most every aspect.

I'm not sure how or why you gathered that from the site, but I fail to see any real objective information that seems to substantiate that judgment. Hell, they guess at the Xmax of the Z based on nothing more than mechanical noise.......LOL. It simply looks to me like they took more time to subjectively review the Z than they did the Xcon.

I'm not saying the Xcon is the best choice or a better sub, just suggesting that your interpretation of that site and it's information is a little inaccurate, IMO.

That’s fair, it is probably an amateurs interpretation of what I was reading. These are some of the things that made me think the z was more capable. Xcon made mechanical noise. Z had demodulation rings. Z has a pole vent. Z has 8 layer coil. Z has 9 inch spider vs 8. All of those things may mean nothing or maybe something, I don’t really know. Just sounded like a better thought out driver that based on their description was very well built.

[jcarver 0]

No, not him. There are a few team ssa guys doing huge numbers in relatively small power. They don't need a lit to get loud. But can take it if you got it. Yes 1 zcon 15 per 1 dc5k @.5 ohms each.

Thas a lot of power. Sounds like they can take whatever you give them

[jcarver 0]

I've never ran none of the subs you've mentioned besides the F.i. UFO BTL, SSA Icon, and the Zcon. Currently I'm running my 15" Zcon ona BC5500 @ 1ohm daily, the enclosure is 4.5 @ 34hz. I love it. And many of my friends have also stated how clear it sounds. Its truely amazing imo. So clear, so loud, and a lot of output. I will be getting metered this weekend. I've also heard great things about the Sundown woofers. One of the main selling points, is the amount of space required.

See that's exactly what i wanted to do in the beginning but everyone told me there is no such thing as a sub that can take 5500 daily without giving in quickly. How long have you been running that setup. Any noted experiences. I was originally wanting to do a single 18 on 5500.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

What I pulled from that site is the z far exceeds the xcon in most every aspect.

I'm not sure how or why you gathered that from the site, but I fail to see any real objective information that seems to substantiate that judgment. Hell, they guess at the Xmax of the Z based on nothing more than mechanical noise.......LOL. It simply looks to me like they took more time to subjectively review the Z than they did the Xcon.

I'm not saying the Xcon is the best choice or a better sub, just suggesting that your interpretation of that site and it's information is a little inaccurate, IMO.

That’s fair, it is probably an amateurs interpretation of what I was reading. These are some of the things that made me think the z was more capable. Xcon made mechanical noise. Z had demodulation rings. Z has a pole vent. Z has 8 layer coil. Z has 9 inch spider vs 8. All of those things may mean nothing or maybe something, I don’t really know. Just sounded like a better thought out driver that based on their description was very well built.

Just a different design. The Xcon now has a solid pole which leads to improved cooling and greater motor force over it's initial design. It has some very trick spiral CNC machined cooling channels. It also has a shorting ring in the motor, a massive coil, Nomex spiders and sandwiched leads etc. etc.

[jcarver 0]

What I pulled from that site is the z far exceeds the xcon in most every aspect.

I'm not sure how or why you gathered that from the site, but I fail to see any real objective information that seems to substantiate that judgment. Hell, they guess at the Xmax of the Z based on nothing more than mechanical noise.......LOL. It simply looks to me like they took more time to subjectively review the Z than they did the Xcon.

I'm not saying the Xcon is the best choice or a better sub, just suggesting that your interpretation of that site and it's information is a little inaccurate, IMO.

That’s fair, it is probably an amateurs interpretation of what I was reading. These are some of the things that made me think the z was more capable. Xcon made mechanical noise. Z had demodulation rings. Z has a pole vent. Z has 8 layer coil. Z has 9 inch spider vs 8. All of those things may mean nothing or maybe something, I don’t really know. Just sounded like a better thought out driver that based on their description was very well built.

Just a different design. The Xcon now has a solid pole which leads to improved cooling and greater motor force over it's initial design. It has some very trick spiral CNC machined cooling channels. It also has a shorting ring in the motor, a massive coil, Nomex spiders and sandwiched leads etc. etc.

I have to admit they sound like great subs as well, especially for the price.

I also have to say this is one of the more helpful forums I've been too. Thank you all.

I do have one other question that I'm sure someone can quickly answer. In the past I've always ran my amps at their rated impedance. 1 ohm in most cases. But its always been tempting to drop it a little lower especially on my amps that will take it without a problem. Like my AQ2200's. But everyone says this creates a lot of stress on the electrical. What exactly is meant by this? My understanding is that more current will flow and in turn more heat ect. but I dont know how (if at all) its different than just running a larger amp. Given its harder on the less capable amp but shouldn't it be the same draw off of my electrical. For example. Lets say you have a 2k rated at 1 ohm but stable to .5. So you connect it at .5 and after rise it sees 1 ohm and gives 2k. Then on the other hand you have a 2.5k amp at 1 ohm. Connect it at 1 ohm and after rise you see something like 1.5 ohms and clamped power of 2k. These numbers are likely off but just as an example. Both amps end up putting out the same amount of power. If the voltage stayed the same on both amps, wouldn't the current draw be the same even though one is at .5 and the other at 1 ohm. Would this create stress on the electrical in some way?

[Julian 641]

The Z V.3's are not MADE in the USA they are ASSEMBLED, the motors still come from China. I don't know why edouble has it out for the ZCON/SSA. My Zcon(s) was and were not peaky what-so-ever, I ran the 18's in around 5-8 Ft^3 each and they sounded great.. They reached 26-80hz (where they were crossed over at) with little problem and were awesome groundpounding subs. I have won many many competitions from my Zcons one around a total clamped 3k of power.. I too have an 5k+ to each ZCON with little proplem.

Personally I would pick the Xcon or ZCON over the z.v3 but that's just personal opinion. I believe overall Mark and Aaron's customer service rivals that of Sundown.

[///M5 2,833]

One other clarification on all that and edouble's review. Take his opinion as biased and based on misinformation. His posts regularly portray inaccurate information. In this case he may have owned even all the drivers, but without discussion of box and application even that leads to inaccurate information.

Now that being said I didn't post this to sway you in any one way or the other based on the response. However, your first post and the one where you reference wanting to blast 5500w into your subs are VASTLY different. That being said throwing that much sauce on any driver I'd personally prefer to rely on customer support and confidence in the buildhouse in which case it's a no brainer IMO. Comparing the mass manufacturing of Sundown to the SSA hand built line isn't fair for Sundown in that aspect.

[liljestrand 244]

Op: if its a daily system there is no reason to go below 1 ohm. If its for burps only then you can rely on imp rise.

Julian: there were quite of few of us that felt the zcons were peaky. But again every install is different. And the zcons are quality subs.

[jcarver 0]

The Z V.3's are not MADE in the USA they are ASSEMBLED, the motors still come from China. I don't know why edouble has it out for the ZCON/SSA. My Zcon(s) was and were not peaky what-so-ever, I ran the 18's in around 5-8 Ft^3 each and they sounded great.. They reached 26-80hz (where they were crossed over at) with little problem and were awesome groundpounding subs. I have won many many competitions from my Zcons one around a total clamped 3k of power.. I too have an 5k+ to each ZCON with little proplem.

Personally I would pick the Xcon or ZCON over the z.v3 but that's just personal opinion. I believe overall Mark and Aaron's customer service rivals that of Sundown.

Thanks, customer service is always important. Also good to know in a proper setup the zcon can have a relatively flat response. Also 100% made in America is nice but won’t be my deciding factor. I feel if a company is based out of the US and creating jobs here that’s good enough for me. Even some outsourcing, possibly like sundown has done, can be good if it helps to grow the company to a point where they can create more jobs here to support it.

One other clarification on all that and edouble's review. Take his opinion as biased and based on misinformation. His posts regularly portray inaccurate information. In this case he may have owned even all the drivers, but without discussion of box and application even that leads to inaccurate information.

Now that being said I didn't post this to sway you in any one way or the other based on the response. However, your first post and the one where you reference wanting to blast 5500w into your subs are VASTLY different. That being said throwing that much sauce on any driver I'd personally prefer to rely on customer support and confidence in the buildhouse in which case it's a no brainer IMO. Comparing the mass manufacturing of Sundown to the SSA hand built line isn't fair for Sundown in that aspect.

Thanks I’ll take that into consideration. The small box point was something that does add value. Either way I’ll take it as 1 person’s opinion not my deciding factor, but its still nice to get lots of input. As for the 5500 on 1 sub. I killed that idea after researching it thoroughly. I could put that to one sub but efficiency really became a factor at that point. It would be stupid to build a speaker that takes the 5500 but gets no louder than say a zcon on 3500. So decided to go with 2 subs on half the power each, which brings me to where I am now. I’m also ok with mass manufacturing when done right. From what I’ve heard Sundown is great for quality control and when couple with mass manufacturing it can create a quality product at a fair price. Hand built is always the best so I have to give that to ssa in this case.

Op: if its a daily system there is no reason to go below 1 ohm. If its for burps only then you can rely on imp rise.

Julian: there were quite of few of us that felt the zcons were peaky. But again every install is different. And the zcons are quality subs.

In this build I don’t plan to go below 1 ohm I was really just asking for information. What really makes the difference is what I’m wondering, aside from putting the amp under unneeded stress. I know the couple hundred extra watts I get wouldn’t be worth the extra stress so I won’t be something I plan to do. Just curious really. From what I really know of it it just allows more current to flow but makes the amp less efficient.

Edited July 24, 2012 by jcarver

[///M5 2,833]

Again, not a knock on Sundown but I guarantee if you travel in China to a manufacturing facility your comments on quality will change quickly. And yes, been there personally doing just that.