Interesting site...check it out

[BigGuy 22]

Hey guys. I was doing my normal research and I stumbled across this site. Please check it out. Please post opinions. I hope I don't get in trouble.

Here is the link: http://www.data-bass.com/drivers

If you click on each named driver it gives a good bit of info.

[swift 501]

Very interesting, not sure how accurate but interesting. The Sundown V.3 seems ot have a great review

[Sencheezy 689]

interestingg

[BigGuy 22]

Yes I second the Sundown looking good. Even though this site has a couple "car subs", the site seem more geared towards home theatre. I do like how the site dispells a lot myths about audio and is really a good read. I think everyone should check it out!

[BigGuy 22]

Here is the myth page for those less internet savy. http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=knowhow&type=1

[BigGuy 22]

Someone please explain why true "spl" drivers don't need big power. Everything I thought I knew about car audio needs to be reevaluated. Wow???

[edouble101 314]

Nice site.

The SSA XCON 18 is noted to be very similar to the Fi Q. Who would have known.

[edouble101 314]

Someone please explain why true "spl" drivers don't need big power. Everything I thought I knew about car audio needs to be reevaluated. Wow???

Not sure were you read that.

[Sencheezy 689]

Here is the myth page for those less internet savy. http://www.data-bass...=knowhow&type=1

Site seems to have some good and also some bad things in there. For example, it says that there is NO drivers out there that can handle anything above 1krms for a week? I laugh at that statement.

[BigGuy 22]

Taken directly from the website:

"However there are many larger drivers that don’t have ultra high sensitivity. A good pro audio subwoofer may have 6 to 10dB higher sensitivity over an average high excursion car audio subwoofer making them very capable with quite a bit less power, at least for their frequency range which is usually above 40Hz. Likewise, SPL drivers ironically enough don’t need much power! Let me repeat. True SPL drivers ironically enough don’t need much power! That’s because they are used in the higher frequency range and generally have great sensitivity numbers. They need this in order to get the excursion and ultimately SPL. High sensitivity and lots of power means lots of SPL provided the driver is still reasonably linear and does not break. It’s important you know the TSP’s of the driver you buy, otherwise it could be the wrong driver for you!"

Can be found in myths section # 8.

[edouble101 314]

Here is the myth page for those less internet savy. http://www.data-bass...=knowhow&type=1

Site seems to have some good and also some bad things in there. For example, it says that there is NO drivers out there that can handle anything above 1krms for a week? I laugh at that statement.

Does the statement before that say "constant power"?

[ricksi30 923]

Someone please explain why true "spl" drivers don't need big power. Everything I thought I knew about car audio needs to be reevaluated. Wow???

High sensitivity means less power required to get loud. Most SPL drivers have a higher sensitivity.

[BigGuy 22]

Sencheezy, maybe it means 1000 watts for a full 24 hrs. I could see a sub getting very hot for that long. Also most use their systems for maybe 2-3 hours (typical commute) in a day and definetly not at full tilt for that time.

[Sencheezy 689]

Here is the myth page for those less internet savy. http://www.data-bass...=knowhow&type=1

Site seems to have some good and also some bad things in there. For example, it says that there is NO drivers out there that can handle anything above 1krms for a week? I laugh at that statement.

Does the statement before that say "constant power"?

"There are probably no woofers that can even take 1000 watts RMS for over a week if not even past one day"

I understand what the site was getting at though.

[Sencheezy 689]

Sencheezy, maybe it means 1000 watts for a full 24 hrs. I could see a sub getting very hot for that long. Also most use their systems for maybe 2-3 hours (typical commute) in a day and definetly not at full tilt for that time.

I just took a 17hour trip non stop full blast to my Zcon, grant it was only on a AQ1200, so give or take around 900-1100 rms. Got home, Cap was slightly warm

[edouble101 314]

Taken directly from the website:

"However there are many larger drivers that don’t have ultra high sensitivity. A good pro audio subwoofer may have 6 to 10dB higher sensitivity over an average high excursion car audio subwoofer making them very capable with quite a bit less power, at least for their frequency range which is usually above 40Hz. Likewise, SPL drivers ironically enough don’t need much power! Let me repeat. True SPL drivers ironically enough don’t need much power! That’s because they are used in the higher frequency range and generally have great sensitivity numbers. They need this in order to get the excursion and ultimately SPL. High sensitivity and lots of power means lots of SPL provided the driver is still reasonably linear and does not break. It’s important you know the TSP’s of the driver you buy, otherwise it could be the wrong driver for you!"

Can be found in myths section # 8.

The author is comparing driver sensitivity and frequency range to come up with his hypothesis which is misleading.

Of course a high sensitivity pro audio driver at a high frequency need less power to achieve a given spl when compared to a lower sensitivity (car audio) driver at a lower frequency.

[Impious 1,476]

I've had the site bookmarked for a while, hadn't looked at it much though.

Nice site.

The SSA XCON 18 is noted to be very similar to the Fi Q. Who would have known.

Actually he said outwardly the motors appeared to be similar. That says nothing about similarities within the motor, and frankly he doesn't even give any external measurements of the motor itself to confirm they are anything more than similar in appearance. Also, if you look at the actual measured T/S parameters you can see they are different drivers. The Xcon has a higher Q, lower Fs, lower Le and higher Mms. Plus the Xcon has slightly more linear excursion and I believe higher thermal power handling as well.

[Impious 1,476]

There are some things I can agree with on that myths page, but some of it is arguable.

[edouble101 314]

I've had the site bookmarked for a while, hadn't looked at it much though.

Nice site.

The SSA XCON 18 is noted to be very similar to the Fi Q. Who would have known.

Actually he said outwardly the motors appeared to be similar. That says nothing about similarities within the motor, and frankly he doesn't even give any external measurements of the motor itself to confirm they are anything more than similar in appearance. Also, if you look at the actual measured T/S parameters you can see they are different drivers. The Xcon has a higher Q, lower Fs, lower Le and higher Mms. Plus the Xcon has slightly more linear excursion and I believe higher thermal power handling as well.

It is still an Fi copy with a couple alterations.

Quoted "Any differences from the Q are probably in the voice coil itself and the gap geometry and possibly the pole piece machining."

[Impious 1,476]

Also, not a whole lot of info or a lot of guessing done on the driver measurement pages. For example, on the Z3 page he simply guesses that Xmax is 30mm. How close that is to reality I have no idea....but that's not based on overhang, or 70% BL, or any other empirical method....simply a guess based on the "sound" of the driver when playing it free air.

The measurements I saw were primarily just measuring T/S and impedance. Which is okay for maybe verifying accuracy of the manufacturer's T/S and maybe including some that the manufacturer doesn't list like Le....but other than that it seemed to be primarily subjective commentary. Again, okay for a subjective review but not a whole lot of decision-making information being provided.

[Impious 1,476]

I've had the site bookmarked for a while, hadn't looked at it much though.

Nice site.

The SSA XCON 18 is noted to be very similar to the Fi Q. Who would have known.

Actually he said outwardly the motors appeared to be similar. That says nothing about similarities within the motor, and frankly he doesn't even give any external measurements of the motor itself to confirm they are anything more than similar in appearance. Also, if you look at the actual measured T/S parameters you can see they are different drivers. The Xcon has a higher Q, lower Fs, lower Le and higher Mms. Plus the Xcon has slightly more linear excursion and I believe higher thermal power handling as well.

It is still an Fi copy with a couple alterations.

Quoted "Any differences from the Q are probably in the voice coil itself and the gap geometry and possibly the pole piece machining."

Are the external dimensions of the motor identical? He doesn't say, and I don't honestly know. I'm guessing you don't either. So it appears both you and he are basing that on nothing more than the outward appearance of the motor. Even if the outward dimensions are similar doesn't mean they are identical. T/S parameters show they aren't identical. Thermal power ratings show they aren't identical. The voice coil, gap geometry and pole machining and other features are what matters in the motor, not how similar they look externally.

Yes, there is going to be some similarities. That doesn't make them copies.

I don't understand why you feel the need to bring this up on a weekly basis? We get it. You think they are copies just because they are built at the same buildhouse, even though they are clearly not identical drivers.

Did you do this to Sundown when they were using off the shelf boards? Follow Jacob around and post in every thread about how it's a copy of XYZ? Do you tell Kevin at Skar about how similiar his subs are to Sundown because they are designed by the same person? Or post in every Arc thread about all of the other brands that use their boards? Or is this a special fetish you have for SSA?

[slim2fattycake 85]

seriously... get off their nuts. you act like they are just slapping an SSA decal on the Q and shipping it to people.

[edouble101 314]

seriously... get off their nuts. you act like they are just slapping an SSA decal on the Q and shipping it to people.

Since this is becoming an issue, what are the differences?

T/S can be slightly altered easily by different cone mass, and other minute soft part changes.

Seriously, what is the difference?

[An-i-no 86]

seriously... get off their nuts. you act like they are just slapping an SSA decal on the Q and shipping it to people.

Since this is becoming an issue, what are the differences?

T/S can be slightly altered easily by different cone mass, and other minute soft part changes.

Seriously, what is the difference?

What's the difference between the VVX and the SA series? Or any other subwoofer that comes from that factory?

[NDMstang65 403]

I've had the site bookmarked for a while, hadn't looked at it much though.

Nice site.

The SSA XCON 18 is noted to be very similar to the Fi Q. Who would have known.

Actually he said outwardly the motors appeared to be similar. That says nothing about similarities within the motor, and frankly he doesn't even give any external measurements of the motor itself to confirm they are anything more than similar in appearance. Also, if you look at the actual measured T/S parameters you can see they are different drivers. The Xcon has a higher Q, lower Fs, lower Le and higher Mms. Plus the Xcon has slightly more linear excursion and I believe higher thermal power handling as well.

It is still an Fi copy with a couple alterations.

Quoted "Any differences from the Q are probably in the voice coil itself and the gap geometry and possibly the pole piece machining."

Coil is different, suspension is different, magnet ID is different, dust cap is different, gap is different, pole piece is different, back plate is different, cooling is different.

You can step off of your soap box now.

-the guy thats built hundreds of them.