Help with my front stage.

[ricksi30 923]

So I've been debating on how to do my front stage for a while, and would appreciate some help. I currently have an 880prs for the processing and 8 channels of amplification to work with. I have an arc 400.4 and an older cadence ZRS-4.

These are the drivers that I have

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-352

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=277-035

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-376

I need help with crossover points. One of my latest ideas was to ditch the tweeter and run the full range higher. (Is it possible to have it play that high, or a bad idea?)

I know that I'm probably leaving out vital information but hopefully I've listed enough to get started.

Thanks, Rick

[edouble101 314]

Hopefully I get my Dayton Audio install done before you lol

The RS225 will need a big ported enclosure to shine. I will let you know how they work in an AP install. Also the RS225 needs ~125wrms to really get it moving. The 7"er doesnt have the midbass impact as the RS225 but it is still another option.

Crossover points will be best determined after you have mounting locations choosen. Driver mounting locations will be the biggest factor.

I feel that the Fountek FR89EX would be a better FR driver than the Dayton 4"er Keep in mind that the sensitivity of these drivers is low and they do not handle much power. Your tweets and midbass could easily over power the 4" driver. Level setting will smooth that out but just FYI.

It all comes down to mounting locations. Best to keep the tweet and mid very near each other.

[ricksi30 923]

Hopefully I get my Dayton Audio install done before you lol

The RS225 will need a big ported enclosure to shine. I will let you know how they work in an AP install. Also the RS225 needs ~125wrms to really get it moving. The 7"er doesnt have the midbass impact as the RS225 but it is still another option.

Crossover points will be best determined after you have mounting locations choosen. Driver mounting locations will be the biggest factor.

I feel that the Fountek FR89EX would be a better FR driver than the Dayton 4"er Keep in mind that the sensitivity of these drivers is low and they do not handle much power. Your tweets and midbass could easily over power the 4" driver. Level setting will smooth that out but just FYI.

It all comes down to mounting locations. Best to keep the tweet and mid very near each other.

Thanks for your input! I hope you get done soon too so you can let me know how it turns out. The mid and tweeter will be in the door just below the window within ~6 inches of each other.

[edouble101 314]

Why are you putting them in your door? A three-way would have more benefit in a kick panel or a-pillar install. If vehicle modifications are a concern you could make small pods to sit in the comers of your dash. If that would be the route then I would probably choose a FR driver to minimize the size of the pods.

I should back this up, what are your goals with your front stage?

[ricksi30 923]

Why are you putting them in your door? A three-way would have more benefit in a kick panel or a-pillar install. If vehicle modifications are a concern you could make small pods to sit in the comers of your dash. If that would be the route then I would probably choose a FR driver to minimize the size of the pods.

I should back this up, what are your goals with your front stage?

Strong mid bass, loud, with a "mellow" high end. I'm not terribly picky I just want it to sound good to me, and I'm no expert.

[ricksi30 923]

Also I'm willing to mod anything, I'm just not sure how capable I am. I have very little experience with fiberglass.

[edouble101 314]

Like I had mentioned the RS225 isn't a drop-in driver replacement in any car door that I know of. You will have much louder and pronounced midbass with the RS225 in an enclosure. Like I said the enclosure would need to be large. I think there are better driver's available for your needs. Check out this thread. There is a 4" shootout here. There are other threads similar to these as well, you have to search around.

You should start first with deciding where you are going to mount drivers. Definitely doors?

[ricksi30 923]

Like I had mentioned the RS225 isn't a drop-in driver replacement in any car door that I know of. You will have much louder and pronounced midbass with the RS225 in an enclosure. Like I said the enclosure would need to be large. I think there are better driver's available for your needs. Check out this thread. There is a 4" shootout here. There are other threads similar to these as well, you have to search around.

You should start first with deciding where you are going to mount drivers. Definitely doors?

Doors would be ideal as far as being the easiest. I am willing to consider other locations though. I know that a door wouldn't be the best location, but could I make it work? My doors are 98% sealed.

[ssh 924]

You'll likely have to get your hands dirty with some fiberglass to really get everything installed correctly, so when you do:

UScomposites.com

435 Standard Polyester Layup Resin (Marine Grade Resin) includes catalyst (mekp)

3/4oz Chopped Strand Mat

Aerosil-Cabosil

They mixing containers: http://uscomposites.com/containers.html

Also have a mekp bottle for making accurate ratios of mekp to resin.

If you want to "cheat" for making the shape of what ever pod or panel you do, you can use their expanding foam, but you'll just have to "open up" the inside afterwards (which may or may not make things easier).

Don't forget a bunch of cheap throwaway brushes, painter's tape, mold release spray, latex gloves, and a decent respirator.

I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

If/when you go to do it, let me know, and perhaps I can come up and help.

[ricksi30 923]

Screw it. If it's worth doing it's worth doing right I guess. So kicks for the 8's? Ported or sealed? What would be the best location for the tweeter/mid? Thanks for the links Eric and Stefan I'll check them out.

[///M5 2,833]

One step back, do you already have the drivers?

[ricksi30 923]

One step back, do you already have the drivers?

Yes, I know buy first ask questions later...stupid decision on my part.

[///M5 2,833]

Are you opposed to selling some of them and buying ones that fit your needs better? IMO that is not a good combination for a car. You chose two mids and a tweeter. Nothing is door friendly, nothing is active friendly as they have nasty breakup modes, and they aren't off axis friendly.

If this is your first three way I'd re-think the choices.

And as with ANY stereo decision. Box first, then budget, then drivers. And if the box is no box, it still comes first. At least the options you have. Your thread should also start by outlining those install options as they are super critical in particular with a 3 way. Even worse since you only have 2 way processing.

[ricksi30 923]

Are you opposed to selling some of them and buying ones that fit your needs better? IMO that is not a good combination for a car. You chose two mids and a tweeter. Nothing is door friendly, nothing is active friendly as they have nasty breakup modes, and they aren't off axis friendly.

If this is your first three way I'd re-think the choices.

And as with ANY stereo decision. Box first, then budget, then drivers. And if the box is no box, it still comes first. At least the options you have. Your thread should also start by outlining those install options as they are super critical in particular with a 3 way. Even worse since you only have 2 way processing.

Clearly I'm in over my head. I'm not opposed to selling and switching but I can't imagine that they would be easy to sell. Since I decided to sit on them for 3 months I doubt PE would let me exchange them but I'll send them an email and cross my fingers.

[ricksi30 923]

I'd rather do a solid two way any way. And a door installation would be my preference.

[Impious 1,476]

How exactly do you plan to actively cross a 3-way active front stage + subwoofer with a 3-way active headunit?

There are options, but none of them are really "good".

IMO stick with 2-way.

[ricksi30 923]

How exactly do you plan to actively cross a 3-way active front stage + subwoofer with a 3-way active headunit?

There are options, but none of them are really "good".

IMO stick with 2-way.

My original plan was to use the amps crossovers and the hu. That plan is gone, two way it is which I guess means different equipment.

[///M5 2,833]

If you get a tweeter with SERIOUS balls perhaps a two way. Going to be output limited though as that 8 isn't super happy playing to high. Not sure the prs will allow you to cross low enough, but it won't be that much underlap anyways. That be your only choice to use any of your drivers. Otherwise door and 2 way those don't fit. I suppose the tweeter can be the exception, but with that profile it's rather hard to aim.

[ricksi30 923]

I can't keep the tweeter and get different mid woofers?

[///M5 2,833]

You "could" but I have a SERIOUSLY hard time recommending anyone use a tweeter that does not have a published frequency response. Not sure what the allure was with it that drew you to it. It's a hard shape to deal with and almost nothing measured about it makes it near impossible to know how it will work with anything. The Fs is low enough, but I expect a mess up top and perhaps even strange off axis response if they won't publish it which will make mounting it in a door not so hot.

[///M5 2,833]

Remember when I spoke about choosing mounting locations first? If you are using the doors you are going to be really far off axis and have extremely different path lengths. One you can do something about in your driver choice, the other potentially in your electronic choice. Doing nothing about either isn't so good. I'd also avoid using the electronic power as much as possible generically speaking.

[ricksi30 923]

Remember when I spoke about choosing mounting locations first? If you are using the doors you are going to be really far off axis and have extremely different path lengths. One you can do something about in your driver choice, the other potentially in your electronic choice. Doing nothing about either isn't so good. I'd also avoid using the electronic power as much as possible generically speaking.

What exactly do you mean by this? Say I have 200 to spend. Should I get new mids and tweeters and go active, or just get a damn component set?

[///M5 2,833]

I mean there are tons of compromises in car audio. Understanding which ones to deal with physically, electronically and with driver choice is the balance you need to solve. Obviously avoiding them all would be best, but it's not possible. Electronically you can make adjustments with t/a, crossovers, and eq.

I don't think I've recommended a component set since 1989 in that budget range and when I did then, I was wrong.

[ricksi30 923]

I guess I'll do some more reading, and try this again. Any suggestions within my budget preferably in the door. Thanks for your help so far, I was hoping you would chime in.

[///M5 2,833]

Depends on the door, your music tastes, your budget, your goals, what you currently own, your expectations.

There is no catch all and if anyone ever responds saying there is they don't know what they are talking about.