Big 3 in 4/0 questions

[fearlessgangsta 12]

So Shizzzon got my attention with some cheap 4/0 gauge he got. I'm thinking of adding a couple of 4/0 grounds and a couple 4/0 runs from alt to my front batts. I have never worked with the stuff before. I will be upgrading my alt to a 400 amp eventually so I'm trying to plan ahead.

Since the length of these runs will be shorter than 6-7 feet will there be any benefit vs 0 gauge?

Is there a way to fuse 4/0 wire?

Also what lugs do you use for your 4/0 wire the only ones I found have a minimum buy amount of 10?

Edited April 12, 2012 by Fearz

[An-i-no 86]

Also another thing you may want to think about is if you can find heat-proof tubing (loom, I think it's called?) that'll fit the wire...You don't really want the jacket of the wire to be it's only defense.

Aside from that I have all the same questions you do. And wouldn't you need a huge ass fuse (and fuse holder like you said) for that one run of wire?

[jonbearsmt 919]

most would say there no advantage over 0/1 i my self would do it anyway.. maybe just 1 run but yeah...

as far as lugs go.. when your shopping you have to keep in mind, that most 4/0 connections are going to be for home use.. the bigger stranted wire, and in my experiance AC 4/0 or 2/0 is smaller then auto 4/0 or 2/0 so be carefull of what you order.

i ordered 2/0 lugs on ebay by the peice.. but they were AC and they are smaller then normal but i was useing them for 2 runs of 1/0 so it was fine.

[fearlessgangsta 12]

most would say there no advantage over 0/1 i my self would do it anyway.. maybe just 1 run but yeah...

as far as lugs go.. when your shopping you have to keep in mind, that most 4/0 connections are going to be for home use.. the bigger stranted wire, and in my experiance AC 4/0 or 2/0 is smaller then auto 4/0 or 2/0 so be carefull of what you order.

i ordered 2/0 lugs on ebay by the peice.. but they were AC and they are smaller then normal but i was useing them for 2 runs of 1/0 so it was fine.

The stuff Shizz linked is automotive 4/0

[fearlessgangsta 12]

Also another thing you may want to think about is if you can find heat-proof tubing (loom, I think it's called?) that'll fit the wire...You don't really want the jacket of the wire to be it's only defense.

Aside from that I have all the same questions you do. And wouldn't you need a huge ass fuse (and fuse holder like you said) for that one run of wire?

I believe it said the jacket could withstand temps of 125c. My 0gauge doesn't have tubing on it and it's been like that. It's all zip tied around the top of my engine bay.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Fearz

[shizzzon 461]

I'm about to go see a movie. When I get back, I will tell u all your answers.

Also, its super easy so no worries.

[shizzzon 461]

Ok Fearz, explain to me how your electrical system is laid out, alt, all batts and amps installed so i can answer your question.

[fearlessgangsta 12]

Ok Fearz, explain to me how your electrical system is laid out, alt, all batts and amps installed so i can answer your question.

Alright sir. I have two batts under the hood. 1 stock and a xs power 3400. I have a ground from my 3400 to the stock batt. Another ground from my stock batt through my electric ground clamp to the engine block. I also have a ground from my 3400 just going to the frame. Now from my alt positive post i have a run to the stock batt and a run to the 3400. Then from my 3400 I have a fused run back to the amp and a ground run back to the amp.

I'm thinking of getting the 4/0 and grounding my 3400 to the engine block also, and running a positive from stock straight to the positive of the 3400.

So when I'm done basicly my grounds will be connected at two points and the 3400 also has another ground. And the positives will be doubled because they will be connected at the alt and have a straight peice going from positive to positive.

Alt is stock 160 will be upgrading.

Wire is Knu 0 gauge

Amp is/was crescendo 2k upgrading

All fuses are 300amp Knu fuses.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Fearz

[shizzzon 461]

ok, first off, u will need to move your 3400 to the rear. This will give you better voltage at the amp.

I will come back and explain how to wire it later today.

[shizzzon 461]

OK, first, move the D3400 to the rear.

Next, your amp will get most of it's power from the rear battAlt.

The front battery will disperse a low amount of current to your audio, therefore front battery does not require crazy large grounds.

For a 250A alt or smaller, i'd run single 4/0 power from alt to front batt. If larger than 250A, 2 4/0 would be ideal.

(All of my suggestions are to prevent any or the lowest ideal voltage drop).

Now, for the ground, i'd run a single 4awg-1/0 cable off starting battery to chassis.

For alt ground, i'd run single 4/0 off case or bracket to chassis.

I'd ALSO run single 4/0 from the same place you ground Alt to chassis at to ground on starting battery.

I would then run 1-2 4/0 power from front batt to rear D3400.

I would ALSO run 1 4/0 cable GROUND from front batt to rear D3400.

I would ground the rear D3400 with 1-2 4/0.

Fusing-

Fuse alt to front batt, and 2 fuses in line with 4/0 per run from front to back.

Make sure each fuse is within 18" of front batt and 18" of rear batt.

What size fuse?

4/0 cable is DANGEROUS if it grounds out and can cause a potential fire before the recommended fuse pops.

I would suggest fusing below it's capable current capability. This will not cause a loss of performance just because you are using a smaller fuse on a larger cable, just make sure you fuse in accordance to what you are protecting that the wire is ran tofrom.

IE- fuse for alt, should be slightly higher than the Alt's output potential.

250A=300A fuse, 270A alt = 300A fuse, 320A alt= 350A fuse, etc...

4/0 runs from front to back.

Each cable (whether you run 1 or 2 power runs) should be fused roughly 50-75A that of your alt rating.

This will allow maximum current throughput from alt and low current throughput from starting battery.

So, IE- 250A alt, 300A fuse per run. 270A alt, 350A fuse per run.

I would personally suggest to NEVER EVER EVER fuse higher than 350A in a vehicle anywhere using ONE fuse.

Now, if you needed 500A of fusing on a single fuse block, you'd be safer on splitting the fuses up into smaller multiples.

That way if the fuses start popping, they will pop like a domino effect and after the first one pops, the rest will pop much much quicker.

Large cable in this type of use is to lower the amount of voltage drop at play. Using suggested fusing will still give better performance by using a larger cable over the normal suggested size and still offer rapid safe response time when that fuse pops.

If you had a cable capable of 1000A and you fused it with 1000A fuse and that cable grounded... a fuse would not save you...

So, be safe!

Now, into what fuse blocks to use?

This 4/0 cable is literally a hair larger than Knu's Kolossus in diameter.

I have an enormous amount of terminals i can ship you if you need terminals.

The onyl down side to them is they use a 12" mounting hole which is not normal in car audio installs so if your base is 5/16" or 3/8" bolt... check the base of where it's mounting too to ensure it has enough surface area!

My 4/0 terminals are 7/8" wide so the base needs to be about 1" or larger to properly use these to full potential.

Fuse blocks-

You can acquire the blocks from Stinger, XScorpion, etc.. that require ring terminals to mount.

You can find them for around $10 or less per block. They accept single ANL fuse.

You can also have someone such as TeamProjectDB, Toolmaker or I to make some for you.. although I am not available right now.

[fearlessgangsta 12]

OK, first, move the D3400 to the rear.

Next, your amp will get most of it's power from the rear battAlt.

The front battery will disperse a low amount of current to your audio, therefore front battery does not require crazy large grounds.

For a 250A alt or smaller, i'd run single 4/0 power from alt to front batt. If larger than 250A, 2 4/0 would be ideal.

(All of my suggestions are to prevent any or the lowest ideal voltage drop).

Now, for the ground, i'd run a single 4awg-1/0 cable off starting battery to chassis.

For alt ground, i'd run single 4/0 off case or bracket to chassis.

I'd ALSO run single 4/0 from the same place you ground Alt to chassis at to ground on starting battery.

I would then run 1-2 4/0 power from front batt to rear D3400.

I would ALSO run 1 4/0 cable GROUND from front batt to rear D3400.

I would ground the rear D3400 with 1-2 4/0.

Fusing-

Fuse alt to front batt, and 2 fuses in line with 4/0 per run from front to back.

Make sure each fuse is within 18" of front batt and 18" of rear batt.

What size fuse?

4/0 cable is DANGEROUS if it grounds out and can cause a potential fire before the recommended fuse pops.

I would suggest fusing below it's capable current capability. This will not cause a loss of performance just because you are using a smaller fuse on a larger cable, just make sure you fuse in accordance to what you are protecting that the wire is ran tofrom.

IE- fuse for alt, should be slightly higher than the Alt's output potential.

250A=300A fuse, 270A alt = 300A fuse, 320A alt= 350A fuse, etc...

4/0 runs from front to back.

Each cable (whether you run 1 or 2 power runs) should be fused roughly 50-75A that of your alt rating.

This will allow maximum current throughput from alt and low current throughput from starting battery.

So, IE- 250A alt, 300A fuse per run. 270A alt, 350A fuse per run.

I would personally suggest to NEVER EVER EVER fuse higher than 350A in a vehicle anywhere using ONE fuse.

Now, if you needed 500A of fusing on a single fuse block, you'd be safer on splitting the fuses up into smaller multiples.

That way if the fuses start popping, they will pop like a domino effect and after the first one pops, the rest will pop much much quicker.

Large cable in this type of use is to lower the amount of voltage drop at play. Using suggested fusing will still give better performance by using a larger cable over the normal suggested size and still offer rapid safe response time when that fuse pops.

If you had a cable capable of 1000A and you fused it with 1000A fuse and that cable grounded... a fuse would not save you...

So, be safe!

Now, into what fuse blocks to use?

This 4/0 cable is literally a hair larger than Knu's Kolossus in diameter.

I have an enormous amount of terminals i can ship you if you need terminals.

The onyl down side to them is they use a 12" mounting hole which is not normal in car audio installs so if your base is 5/16" or 3/8" bolt... check the base of where it's mounting too to ensure it has enough surface area!

My 4/0 terminals are 7/8" wide so the base needs to be about 1" or larger to properly use these to full potential.

Fuse blocks-

You can acquire the blocks from Stinger, XScorpion, etc.. that require ring terminals to mount.

You can find them for around $10 or less per block. They accept single ANL fuse.

You can also have someone such as TeamProjectDB, Toolmaker or I to make some for you.. although I am not available right now.

I'm working on getting a dual alt setup with a 400amp singer. So then I'm putting my stock charging back to stock, but leaving the grounds.

All wire will be 4/0

So the reason I'm not putting the 3400 in the back is because I'm thinking of putting a couple of 3100's behind my box with buss bars.

Now when I get the alt I'm going to have to upgrade my cable that's why I'm looking into it now.

So I'm going to ground the alt to the frame and the 3400 to the same spot then run a ground from the 3400 back to the buss bar.. Now I'm consfused on how I'm going to do my power wires. I'm thinking of doing a run from the alt positive to my 3400 ( how would I fuse this one wire?). Then I'm going to do a run from the 3400 to the buss bars(now can I fusethinking one 350 since there will be 3 wires going to the back? Then thinking of doing 1 or 2 runs from the alt back to the buss bars(now should I fuse these around 350 or so because it's 2 runs?)

So that's 1 wire from alt to front batt. Then 3 power runs to the back and a ground run to the back. Also a couple of more grounds to the frame in the back.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Fearz

[shizzzon 461]

you would run 2 4/0 power from 400a alt to d3400.

Each of these would be fused with 300-350A fuse.

You would then run 2 4/0 power from D3400 to buss bars, fuse within 18" of it leaving D3400 and 18" before hitting buss bars.

Each of these 2 runs are also fused 300-350A per.

You can technically fuse with a 400A fuse per wire as suggested but i am real critical about safety and feel leary about a fuse that large in a vehicle.

You need NOT run power cable from alt to buss bars AND D3400 to buss bars like u stated earlier... That's redundant.

[The enD 467]

For a 250A alt or smaller, i'd run single 4/0 power from alt to front batt. If larger than 250A, 2 4/0 would be ideal.

Single 1/0 can carry around 200A at 8-10 feet away. Even if your front battery is a D3100 it will be max 110A. Why would you need so much wire to something that can only supply 110A?

That feels like a waste of wire to me.

[shizzzon 461]

You realize we are talking about DC voltage here?

AC voltage can maintain voltage at long runs but DC cannot.

For one, it doesn't matter what 1/0 "can" do, it matters what it's voltage drop will be.

In DC applications, you want ZERO voltage drop.

Therefore, larger cable is recommended.

According to calculation-

Passing 200A of current through a 1/0 cable at 8ft long will have a 0.32v drop.

That's just at the engine bay!

Passing 200A of current through a 4/0 cable at 8ft long will have a 0.16v drop.

Much better.

And did we mention the 4/0 costs about the same or less than 1/0 depending on what 1/0 you are comparing too.

[The enD 467]

AC voltage can maintain voltage at long runs but DC cannot.

Why is that?

[fearlessgangsta 12]

you would run 2 4/0 power from 400a alt to d3400.

Each of these would be fused with 300-350A fuse.

You would then run 2 4/0 power from D3400 to buss bars, fuse within 18" of it leaving D3400 and 18" before hitting buss bars.

Each of these 2 runs are also fused 300-350A per.

You can technically fuse with a 400A fuse per wire as suggested but i am real critical about safety and feel leary about a fuse that large in a vehicle.

You need NOT run power cable from alt to buss bars AND D3400 to buss bars like u stated earlier... That's redundant.

Ok, I thought the alt runs were redundant, but I have seen it done. Now I will do the two runs to the 3400 and then run them back. That's why I asked about fusing lower when using multiple runs. I like to be as safe as possible especially when it could mess up my amp, speaker or my only transportation.

Now Shizzz who do I need to see about some buss bars down the road?

Edited April 15, 2012 by Fearz

[shizzzon 461]

down the road?

I can tell you straight up I can make them but i'm not in the cosmetic department.

They would have sharp corners and no finish on them.

If you want that, Toolmaker or TeamProjectDB would be the place to go.

[shizzzon 461]

AC voltage can maintain voltage at long runs but DC cannot.

Why is that?

AC vs DC by itself has no magical difference over who will have more voltage drop first...

The key to AC voltage is the plants that supply towns with energy disperse humungous amounts of voltage everywhere.

Transformers on telephone poles are used to reduce or increase voltage in that area.

There technically is no such thing as a DC transformer but people use that term anyway to explain a conversion tofrom DC.

[Julian 641]

AC voltage can maintain voltage at long runs but DC cannot.

Why is that?

AC vs DC by itself has no magical difference over who will have more voltage drop first...

The key to AC voltage is the plants that supply towns with energy disperse humungous amounts of voltage everywhere.

Transformers on telephone poles are used to reduce or increase voltage in that area.

There technically is no such thing as a DC transformer but people use that term anyway to explain a conversion tofrom DC.

Yes... Yes there is Transformer Rectifier...

[fearlessgangsta 12]

down the road?

I can tell you straight up I can make them but i'm not in the cosmetic department.

They would have sharp corners and no finish on them.

If you want that, Toolmaker or TeamProjectDB would be the place to go.

I work part time so I have to save up. I don't need cosmetics I really just need the copper I could cut holes in it and grind it smooth on the edges.

[shizzzon 461]

U don't want copper. Copper oxidizes too quick and protectants and copper

Itself is $$$.

U want aluminum.

I am going to be ordering some aluminum soon to make 16 battery terminals.

I'll show you what I can do..

Nothing jaw dropping but interesting nonetheless

[fearlessgangsta 12]

U don't want copper. Copper oxidizes too quick and protectants and copper

Itself is $$$.

U want aluminum.

I am going to be ordering some aluminum soon to make 16 battery terminals.

I'll show you what I can do..

Nothing jaw dropping but interesting nonetheless

Ok, I was thinking about aluminum at work. I'm looking forward to your work sir. Function over cosmetics.

Yeah copper is $$$. One day I have my $$$$ on point.lol