SSA Sub(s) having issue on lower notes, poor kay?

[Sencheezy 689]

I am a proud owner and representer off SSA line of subwoofers. I have owned the Icon and currently the Zcon, and have installed a pair of Dcons. All three sound great, the Icon being my favorite at the moment. The problem that I am encountering right now is the stress noise I am hearing on lower notes at higher volume. This first became apparent on the install of a local Dcon's. Where we began testing and preparing initial gain setting. His setup consisted of 2 12' Dcons on a single AP1500 in a sealed enclosure for his maxima. This "scratching" noise was only noticable in a subwoofer at higher volume on lower notes for only ONE subwoofer, while the other showed no signs off stress. Yes, I am well aware of the amp providing more power than rated, this is not what I am concerned with, the problem relies in only ONE subwoofer, so for only one to show signs of ware, seems strange. That box was built to specs. He then tried moving to another enclosure that Sean DeYoung was nice enough to sell us. It was ported and as well built to specs. The problem still seemed to be apparent in the exact same subwoofer. I didn't know what to tell him as it was strange to me to see how only one could be effected and not the other.

On to my setup. I have a build log, that some members have seen or taked a look at one way or another. I have only built one enclosure for this Zcon, and am powering it with an AQ1200, so I'm providing half the power as rated. But the enclosure is a bit on the large size, in the lower 6cuft range. Which was done intentionally to try and compensate for the lack of power. My subwoofer is too making the exact same noise. This noise sounds like coil rub. I first began to think, well maybe its the enclosure being too large, which in result, could cause the subwoofer to lose control of the cone or something, I'm not exactly sure. But once I noticed my local 'ssetup making the same noise in two different enclosure, I'm beginning to think that this may be an driver issue.

Either subwoofers are NOT blown. His Dcon was BNIB, my Zcon was a hammy down, but from members here that I have no reason not to trust. IIRC, Ricksi was the original owner > Edouble > Me. So the likely hood of being mis treated or mis used is rather unlikely.

Troubleshooting steps that have been taken.

• His setup, D4 subs wired to one ohm on AP1500.
  
• Wiring was tripled checked about 2 times by me.
  
• Initialy wired by a local shop.
  
• In new ported enclosure, wiring was down by a seperate local audio shop.
  
• Coils read fine.
  
• Softly push down on top of cap to listen for any abnormal noises
  

• My setup, D2 sub wired to one ohm on AQ1200
  
• Wiring has been checked multiple times over and over.
  
• Ports have been changed in the range of 32hz to 45hz.
  
• Box positioning have been changed.
  
• Have attempted different enclosure, the enclosure for the Icon by audible sounded worse (4cuft,34hz,very low port area), and the comp enclosure built by shizzzon wouldn't allow enough port(5cuft)
  
• Softly push down on top of cap to listen for any abnormal noises
  

I have asked the local member here, owner of the Dcons to email Support, and here is one of the responses.

"> > On Feb 2, 2012, at 10:47 PM, "Aaron H. Clinton"

> > <[email protected]> wrote:

> >

> >> Hello Caleb,

> >>

> >> Please show how you are wiring them up please? Each SSA driver is

> >> tested before shipping, so it would not be defective. Also, that

> >> is way too much power for a pair of Dcon’s, please make sure you

> >> have your gains backed down.

> >>

> >> Thanks,

> >> Aaron H. Clinton

> >> VP - SSAudio Inc.

> >> http://www.ssaudio.com

> >>

> >> [email protected]

> >> [email protected]

"

Now, understand, I love SSA, but stating that each driver is tested prior to shipping, and not being able to be defective, is not to sound mean, but a bit "cocky" statement as no production of any item will have an 100% success rate, too many variables and possiblities of things to happen. Maybe there was an shipping issue, being mishandled by UPS, not sure.

So my main question here is what could cause this problem with lower notes at higher volume? I don't really care for whom is at fault, I would be more satisified if this issue could be resolved without the need to purchase a recone out of our pockets as it seems we have had no influence in what appears to be a malfunction of the driver. How do we prevent this kind of incident from happening again? But again, I'm no subwoofer designer or have any idea what could be the issue and what exactly is causing, I am simply looking for an answer.

In advance, thank you for your help.

[ricksi30 923]

Is there any noise/rub when pushing on the cone? I know that the ZCON was 100 percent when it left my hands and was only run on 1500 RMS. I believe Eric only ran 2000 RMS for a short period of time which I can't see damaging a ZCON even if the amp was clipping. Now you are running 1200 which I also can't see it having any thermal issues, however in such a large enclosure I would be nervous about over excursion under tuning.

As far as the DCON is it possible that it was damaged running 1500 RMS? Who first set the gain? You guys or the shop? Running 1500 to a pair of DCON's is risky if the settings aren't correct.

[swift 501]

I heard it to and didnt say anything. I was assuming it was your box. Let's throw it in my box and hook it to my sundown amp and see it still does it. You know my enclosed will hammer the lows so let's check it out. If it is your enclosure we will start on a new one for you.

Someone is buying my Q tomorrow so box will be empty and power supply waiting and wires waiting. Let me know

I personally think the enclosed is too big, it may be leaking, and also the port seems huge for such a big box. It sounded like a unloading issue to me personally

Edited April 1, 2012 by swift

[ricksi30 923]

I heard it to and didnt say anything. I was assuming it was your box. Let's throw it in my box and hook it to my sundown amp and see it still does it. You know my enclosed will hammer the lows so let's check it out. If it is your enclosure we will start on a new one for you.

Someone is buying my Q tomorrow so box will be empty and power supply waiting and wires waiting. Let me know

That would rule out a lot of things. Amp, enclosure, wiring etc...

[Sencheezy 689]

Is there any noise/rub when pushing on the cone? I know that the ZCON was 100 percent when it left my hands and was only run on 1500 RMS. I believe Eric only ran 2000 RMS for a short period of time which I can't see damaging a ZCON even if the amp was clipping. Now you are running 1200 which I also can't see it having any thermal issues, however in such a large enclosure I would be nervous about over excursion under tuning.

As far as the DCON is it possible that it was damaged running 1500 RMS? Who first set the gain? You guys or the shop? Running 1500 to a pair of DCON's is risky if the settings aren't correct.

There is no noise when pushing on the cone. Your thought on such an large enclosure was too my initial thought as well, but I recently made a visit to the Dcon setup with new enclosure, and to my suprise, the noise was still present. Initial setup of the Dcons was done by a shop. I assume that sure, it is possible for the 1500 to damage the pair, but the power is distributed evenly between the pair, and are identical drivers, so in result, shouldn't both be damaged if that was the case?

When I tested with my 45hz port, and adjusted the ssf accordingly, I began to slowly turned down the ssf while monitoring the subwoofer, and the excursion on the Zcon looks amazing, as far as to the eye, and did not hear this noise until extreme excursion, where I than adjusted the ssf. But currently, this noise, at 37hz tunning, is present way before reaching Xmech.

Edited April 1, 2012 by Sencheezy

[Sencheezy 689]

I heard it to and didnt say anything. I was assuming it was your box. Let's throw it in my box and hook it to my sundown amp and see it still does it. You know my enclosed will hammer the lows so let's check it out. If it is your enclosure we will start on a new one for you.

Someone is buying my Q tomorrow so box will be empty and power supply waiting and wires waiting. Let me know

I personally think the enclosed is too big, it may be leaking, and also the port seems huge for such a big box. It sounded like a unloading issue to me personally

Sure, this sounds like a good idea. Again, only reason for posting this before new enclosure is built, is because after hearing the Dcons still making the noise, which lead me to believe it is not an enclosure issue. But is still another troubleshooting step that I am willing to make as I don't won't to give up on this thing. Thank you for your help and text me when you are free/available.

[ricksi30 923]

Is there any noise/rub when pushing on the cone? I know that the ZCON was 100 percent when it left my hands and was only run on 1500 RMS. I believe Eric only ran 2000 RMS for a short period of time which I can't see damaging a ZCON even if the amp was clipping. Now you are running 1200 which I also can't see it having any thermal issues, however in such a large enclosure I would be nervous about over excursion under tuning.

As far as the DCON is it possible that it was damaged running 1500 RMS? Who first set the gain? You guys or the shop? Running 1500 to a pair of DCON's is risky if the settings aren't correct.

There is no noise when pushing on the cone. Your thought on such an large enclosure was too my initial thought as well, but I recently made a visit to the Dcon setup with new enclosure, and to my suprise, the noise was still present. Initial setup of the Dcons was done by a shop. I assume that sure, it is possible for the 1500 to damage the pair, but the power is distributed evenly between the pair, and are identical drivers, so in result, shouldn't both be damaged if that was the case?

When I tested with my 45hz port, and adjusted the ssf accordingly, I began to slowly turned down the ssf while monitoring the subwoofer, and the excursion on the Zcon looks amazing, as far as to the eye, and did not hear this noise until extreme excursion, where I than adjusted the ssf. But currently, this noise, at 37hz tunning, is present way before reaching Xmax.

DCON's

It is possible to damage one and not the other.

ZCON

I honestly don't know??

Is it the same exact noise? Can you describe it any better or get a video of it?

[swift 501]

I aimed for the lows with my build. And because of this I can tell my enclosure does not care for the higher notes (above 47-50) I fell like yours is the exact opposite, you higher notes had much more punch/authority than mine but it didn't seem comfortable on the lows.

I am really curious to see how the Zcon will sound in a low tuned setup. This may effect my upcoming purchase choice....lol.

Btw for anyone that doesn't know mine is 3.65cu tuned at 29hz. My truck seems to peak right now around 31hz

We can hook up tomorrow if you want.

Edited April 1, 2012 by swift

[edouble101 314]

I do not believe that SSA test all drivers before they are shipped. SSA drivers are shipped form the build house. Mark, Aron or any other SSA rep never sees the product they sell. Yep it's f'd up.

Therefore I find it impossible to believe that an SSA rep can assure you that their product works 100% when shipped.

The ZCON I sold you showed no signs of mechanical damage when I shipped it to you.

[Sencheezy 689]

Is there any noise/rub when pushing on the cone? I know that the ZCON was 100 percent when it left my hands and was only run on 1500 RMS. I believe Eric only ran 2000 RMS for a short period of time which I can't see damaging a ZCON even if the amp was clipping. Now you are running 1200 which I also can't see it having any thermal issues, however in such a large enclosure I would be nervous about over excursion under tuning.

As far as the DCON is it possible that it was damaged running 1500 RMS? Who first set the gain? You guys or the shop? Running 1500 to a pair of DCON's is risky if the settings aren't correct.

There is no noise when pushing on the cone. Your thought on such an large enclosure was too my initial thought as well, but I recently made a visit to the Dcon setup with new enclosure, and to my suprise, the noise was still present. Initial setup of the Dcons was done by a shop. I assume that sure, it is possible for the 1500 to damage the pair, but the power is distributed evenly between the pair, and are identical drivers, so in result, shouldn't both be damaged if that was the case?

When I tested with my 45hz port, and adjusted the ssf accordingly, I began to slowly turned down the ssf while monitoring the subwoofer, and the excursion on the Zcon looks amazing, as far as to the eye, and did not hear this noise until extreme excursion, where I than adjusted the ssf. But currently, this noise, at 37hz tunning, is present way before reaching Xmax.

DCON's

It is possible to damage one and not the other.

ZCON

I honestly don't know??

Is it the same exact noise? Can you describe it any better or get a video of it?

Yes, exact same noise. Can't get a video, because then you will just hear distoration.

[Mark LaFountain 1,054]

I do not believe that SSA test all drivers before they are shipped. SSA drivers are shipped form the build house. Mark, Aron or any other SSA rep never sees the product they sell. Yep it's f'd up.

Therefore I find it impossible to believe that an SSA rep can assure you that their product works 100% when shipped.

The ZCON I sold you showed no signs of mechanical damage when I shipped it to you.

All SSA drivers are shown power before leaving the build house to assure proper mechanical alignment and functional ablity. Just because we do not see it in person, doesn't not mean it doesn't not happen, I have personally seen these procedure done hundreds of times on our products coming off the line and have full trust in our build house's ability.

That being said, some times things do happen and no one is perfect, please email us with your concerns and we can work it out and take care of you best through that channel.

Thanks.

[edouble101 314]

I do not believe that SSA test all drivers before they are shipped. SSA drivers are shipped form the build house. Mark, Aron or any other SSA rep never sees the product they sell. Yep it's f'd up.

Therefore I find it impossible to believe that an SSA rep can assure you that their product works 100% when shipped.

The ZCON I sold you showed no signs of mechanical damage when I shipped it to you.

All SSA drivers are shown power before leaving the build house to assure proper mechanical alignment and functional ablity. Just because we do not see it in person, doesn't not mean it doesn't not happen, I have personally seen these procedure done hundreds of times on our products coming off the line and have full trust in our build house's ability.

That being said, some times things do happen and no one is perfect, please email us with your concerns and we can work it out and take care of you best through that channel.

Thanks.

Who should be emailed?

[Sencheezy 689]

I aimed for the lows with my build. And because of this I can tell my enclosure does not care for the higher notes (above 47-50) I fell like yours is the exact opposite, you higher notes had much more punch/authority than mine but it didn't seem comfortable on the lows.

I am really curious to see how the Zcon will sound in a low tuned setup. This may effect my upcoming purchase choice....lol.

Btw for anyone that doesn't know mine is 3.65cu tuned at 29hz. My truck seems to peak right now around 31hz

We can hook up tomorrow if you want.

That is below Zcon speaks, but sure, we can met before 2pm. I gotta work >.<

[shizzzon 461]

SKERT.........

Take a break people!

I just called Sencheezy with some tips on evaluating his install and will be testing these shortly.

In the meantime, let's just wait until the tests are done so we can move on andor conclude the results of this thread.

It is my belief that the box being used is too large for the setting that the subsonic filter is currently set at.

It appears it is set at a general rule of thumb setting which cannot be used for such a large enclosure.

So.. Sencheezy will be fine tuning the subsonic filter shortly per my instructions and will report back shortly with results.

hopefully, this wil be resolved shortly.

This is no way, i believe, is a result of ANY company's product! It just sounds like setting error.

Edited April 1, 2012 by shizzzon

[Sencheezy 689]

From the short tests I have just gathered, the noise does go away with a higher setting on the SSF. In results, this loses mostly ALL bottom end output. This seems to be a fix, but is this the real answer to fix this issue. I suppose the only way to find a definitive answer will to be another enclosure. Which is not a huge problem.

[shizzzon 461]

the instructions were to use a 30hz test tone so if the bottom end is lost on a 30hz tone... then the enclosure is FAR too large.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

I am a proud owner and representer off SSA line of subwoofers. I have owned the Icon and currently the Zcon, and have installed a pair of Dcons. All three sound great, the Icon being my favorite at the moment. The problem that I am encountering right now is the stress noise I am hearing on lower notes at higher volume. This first became apparent on the install of a local Dcon's. Where we began testing and preparing initial gain setting. His setup consisted of 2 12' Dcons on a single AP1500 in a sealed enclosure for his maxima. This "scratching" noise was only noticable in a subwoofer at higher volume on lower notes for only ONE subwoofer, while the other showed no signs off stress. Yes, I am well aware of the amp providing more power than rated, this is not what I am concerned with, the problem relies in only ONE subwoofer, so for only one to show signs of ware, seems strange. That box was built to specs. He then tried moving to another enclosure that Sean DeYoung was nice enough to sell us. It was ported and as well built to specs. The problem still seemed to be apparent in the exact same subwoofer. I didn't know what to tell him as it was strange to me to see how only one could be effected and not the other.

On to my setup. I have a build log, that some members have seen or taked a look at one way or another. I have only built one enclosure for this Zcon, and am powering it with an AQ1200, so I'm providing half the power as rated. But the enclosure is a bit on the large size, in the lower 6cuft range. Which was done intentionally to try and compensate for the lack of power. My subwoofer is too making the exact same noise. This noise sounds like coil rub. I first began to think, well maybe its the enclosure being too large, which in result, could cause the subwoofer to lose control of the cone or something, I'm not exactly sure. But once I noticed my local 'ssetup making the same noise in two different enclosure, I'm beginning to think that this may be an driver issue.

Either subwoofers are NOT blown. His Dcon was BNIB, my Zcon was a hammy down, but from members here that I have no reason not to trust. IIRC, Ricksi was the original owner > Edouble > Me. So the likely hood of being mis treated or mis used is rather unlikely.

Troubleshooting steps that have been taken.

• His setup, D4 subs wired to one ohm on AP1500.
  
• Wiring was tripled checked about 2 times by me.
  
• Initialy wired by a local shop.
  
• In new ported enclosure, wiring was down by a seperate local audio shop.
  
• Coils read fine.
  
• Softly push down on top of cap to listen for any abnormal noises
  

• My setup, D2 sub wired to one ohm on AQ1200
  
• Wiring has been checked multiple times over and over.
  
• Ports have been changed in the range of 32hz to 45hz.
  
• Box positioning have been changed.
  
• Have attempted different enclosure, the enclosure for the Icon by audible sounded worse (4cuft,34hz,very low port area), and the comp enclosure built by shizzzon wouldn't allow enough port(5cuft)
  
• Softly push down on top of cap to listen for any abnormal noises
  

I have asked the local member here, owner of the Dcons to email Support, and here is one of the responses.

"> > On Feb 2, 2012, at 10:47 PM, "Aaron H. Clinton"

> > <[email protected]> wrote:

> >

> >> Hello Caleb,

> >>

> >> Please show how you are wiring them up please? Each SSA driver is

> >> tested before shipping, so it would not be defective. Also, that

> >> is way too much power for a pair of Dcon’s, please make sure you

> >> have your gains backed down.

> >>

> >> Thanks,

> >> Aaron H. Clinton

> >> VP - SSAudio Inc.

> >> http://www.ssaudio.com

> >>

> >> [email protected]

> >> [email protected]

"

Now, understand, I love SSA, but stating that each driver is tested prior to shipping, and not being able to be defective, is not to sound mean, but a bit "cocky" statement as no production of any item will have an 100% success rate, too many variables and possiblities of things to happen. Maybe there was an shipping issue, being mishandled by UPS, not sure.

So my main question here is what could cause this problem with lower notes at higher volume? I don't really care for whom is at fault, I would be more satisified if this issue could be resolved without the need to purchase a recone out of our pockets as it seems we have had no influence in what appears to be a malfunction of the driver. How do we prevent this kind of incident from happening again? But again, I'm no subwoofer designer or have any idea what could be the issue and what exactly is causing, I am simply looking for an answer.

In advance, thank you for your help.

I am sorry to read you are having an issue. You are the first to report back about something like this. As for testing at the factory, it is far from cocky, it is just fact. They test the drivers before shipping to ensure no defects before shipping, hence the point of testing them before shipping. In all of our subs over the years I have used, and others have used in competition that were installed and used correctly, there have never been issues of scratching.

Yes, there has been an older Icon that was dropped during shipping that shifted the motor enough that caused damage to the stack, which in turn there was a coil scratch.

As for the Dcon's, it is impossible for two drivers to fail at the exact same time in the same enclosure. If you want someone at the build house to look at the drivers personally, shoot us an email and we will get it taken care of.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

Is there any noise/rub when pushing on the cone? I know that the ZCON was 100 percent when it left my hands and was only run on 1500 RMS. I believe Eric only ran 2000 RMS for a short period of time which I can't see damaging a ZCON even if the amp was clipping. Now you are running 1200 which I also can't see it having any thermal issues, however in such a large enclosure I would be nervous about over excursion under tuning.

As far as the DCON is it possible that it was damaged running 1500 RMS? Who first set the gain? You guys or the shop? Running 1500 to a pair of DCON's is risky if the settings aren't correct.

The power level is really an issue, as the Dcon's are 2" coil drivers. I mentioned it in the email for a reason. That is the leading part of the details that concerns me.

[Duran 387]

Tune to 37 Hz. and lose bottom end output, hmm.

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

I heard it to and didnt say anything. I was assuming it was your box. Let's throw it in my box and hook it to my sundown amp and see it still does it. You know my enclosed will hammer the lows so let's check it out. If it is your enclosure we will start on a new one for you.

Someone is buying my Q tomorrow so box will be empty and power supply waiting and wires waiting. Let me know

I personally think the enclosed is too big, it may be leaking, and also the port seems huge for such a big box. It sounded like a unloading issue to me personally

That would help answer a number of things. Dcon's, as we have said a number of times, prefer smaller enclosures. So to have too much power, in a box that is too big, with too much port.......

[Aaron Clinton 2,372]

I do not believe that SSA test all drivers before they are shipped. SSA drivers are shipped form the build house. Mark, Aron or any other SSA rep never sees the product they sell. Yep it's f'd up.

Therefore I find it impossible to believe that an SSA rep can assure you that their product works 100% when shipped.

The ZCON I sold you showed no signs of mechanical damage when I shipped it to you.

In all seriousness, can I ask what your constant issue is with our drivers? Did they do something to you? You are constantly looking to find something to can attack the product on, or find some fault that is not there. We are open about everything, answer as many questions as we possibly can, and I am not sure where your approach comes from. We appreciate your thoughts and opinions (from all perspectives), but you are always looking to find something to attack the SSA drivers on.

Now, we don't have any rep's (only a few dealers), so let's get that out of the way. The build house tests EVERY SINGLE SSA sub woofer before it is shipped out. It is part of agreement, it is what we pay for, it is one of the many reasons we have our drivers built at the best build house in North America. So we can assure it is done, we have seen in plenty in person, and we have a number of our drivers in our possession at all times. There is nothing f'ed up about it.

[Sencheezy 689]

the instructions were to use a 30hz test tone so if the bottom end is lost on a 30hz tone... then the enclosure is FAR too large.

The SSF setting on the AQ is not JUST shy of 50hz. So I am assuming in the neighborhood of ~46hz.

[shizzzon 461]

the instructions were to use a 30hz test tone so if the bottom end is lost on a 30hz tone... then the enclosure is FAR too large.

The SSF setting on the AQ is not JUST shy of 50hz. So I am assuming in the neighborhood of ~46hz.

Then simply put, if it has to be THAT high... the box is WAY too large for music.

[edouble101 314]

I do not believe that SSA test all drivers before they are shipped. SSA drivers are shipped form the build house. Mark, Aron or any other SSA rep never sees the product they sell. Yep it's f'd up.

Therefore I find it impossible to believe that an SSA rep can assure you that their product works 100% when shipped.

The ZCON I sold you showed no signs of mechanical damage when I shipped it to you.

In all seriousness, can I ask what your constant issue is with our drivers? Did they do something to you? You are constantly looking to find something to can attack the product on, or find some fault that is not there. We are open about everything, answer as many questions as we possibly can, and I am not sure where your approach comes from. We appreciate your thoughts and opinions (from all perspectives), but you are always looking to find something to attack the SSA drivers on.

Now, we don't have any rep's (only a few dealers), so let's get that out of the way. The build house tests EVERY SINGLE SSA sub woofer before it is shipped out. It is part of agreement, it is what we pay for, it is one of the many reasons we have our drivers built at the best build house in North America. So we can assure it is done, we have seen in plenty in person, and we have a number of our drivers in our possession at all times. There is nothing f'ed up about it.

The issue is that SSA does not design or build their product. Fi does. Can you argue that?

If I wanted too, or anybody else for that mater, could do the same thing.

How did you come up with the claim that SSA are sq drivers?

[Sencheezy 689]

Tune to 37 Hz. and lose bottom end output, hmm.

I am aware of this. I hope it wasn't taken as a shock or suprise.

In end, this is where I stand, as of right now.

~6cuft box, tuned to 37hz, powered by AQ1200. Port is ~8inches from rear hatch and SSF is ~46hz.

I have now lost majority of my low end put. Yes I am aware of this, I am simply sharing for others who may stumble across this thread.

When I first installed this enclosure, Box was tuned to 34hz, completely external, so was ~3 inches from hatch. At this time, I was unaware of the rule of thumb of having the port distance from loading surface atleast the distance away from port size(10"). With this setup, I had lots and lots of air movement on lower notes, but lacked the upper range, felt less "punchy" vs the Icon.

I then switched to 45hz tunning, which is what I used for comp, and see what changes may follow. This had a lot more output in the upper range, but obviously, lost output on the lower notes. With this setup, I was able to turn SSF much lower than the ~46hz I'm at right now and could visually see a lot more cone movement without this "scratching" noise.

As stated before thoough, I love SSA, and would never doubt any of his products. I simply posted this to recieve some help/add to my build as I'm not easy to give up on anything. More troubleshooting steps will be followed, starting tommorrow.