Frustrating power issues....

[JohnHinerman 10]

Hey guys,

The system in my 2011 Ram is driving me crazy... Here is what is going on. At high volumes the draw from the amplifiers is kicking my trucks ass. The dash lights are dimming, the voltage drop is causing my HID lights to kick on and off, and I'm pretty sure that the PCM is trying to compensate by increasing the voltage regulation from the alternator.

The voltage regulator is controlled by the PCM. It is not built into the alternator. When it is playing loud, it seems like the PCM is kicking the voltage up to about 15.5v according the my Bel radar detector voltage display and the HI VOLT warning it keeps flashing and beeping at me.

The truck has a 180amp alternator installed on it from a 2500 with snow plow package. (original was 136amp) with an additional 4ga cable from the alternator to the battery.

Optima Red Top

1/0 high quality copper power cable that makes a short run from the battery, into the cab and under the drivers seat. It then splits into two 4 gauge cables through a fused distribution block. The 4ga runs are about 6-8" from the block to the amplifiers. Each amplifier then has its own 4ga ground cable which is grounded with about 6-8" of ground cable.

The amplifiers are a Alpine PDX-F6 with two 30amp fuses and a PDX-M12 with four 25amp fuses.

I have two Fi SSD-10 d2 woofers wired series-parallel to put a 2ohm load at the amplifier (which it is rated for) When measure the speaker resistance, they are sitting at closer to about 1.4ohms. Each woofer is wired with 10ga cable, and each woofer has its own 10ga pair run from the speaker to the amp.

All the gains were set with a DD-1

Will a capacitor provide any real help? Do I need a higher output alternator such as 250-270amp? Is the 1.4 load putting to much load on the amplifier?

Any help or suggestions would be great. I've seen plenty of systems that dim lights etc, but I don't think I've ever had one with the voltage jumping so high like this is. I don't know what if any detrimental effects it could be having on the electrical system in the truck.

Thanks in advance....

[shizzzon 461]

um... measure voltage when stereo isn't on for a while and see if it stays stationary for a decent amount of time.

Damaged rectifier, damaged regulator is normal causes for increase in voltage..

Measure this with a DMM directly at the alternator's post, use alt casing, bracket, etc.. for ground.

Monitor to see if your voltage is going up any just sitting there with truck on.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Have you concidered a second battery? Don't waste any money on a cap as it won't help or fix anything.

[Duran 387]

Get the largest battery you can fit under the hood, preferably not Optima.

[JohnHinerman 10]

Get the largest battery you can fit under the hood, preferably not Optima.

Voltage maintains around 14.4 under normal operating. It is only when playing loud that the voltage is jumping up. As I said before, I am pretty sure that PCM is detecting the voltage drop from the bass hits and increasing the regulator voltage to try to bring it back to near 14.4 but it is overshooting it because by the time it increases the voltage, the voltage as already returned to 14.4 because the bass lines are not a constant load. Music is dynamic, not like I'm playing a steady 40hz tone or something.

I've never seen a cap really do much, and as far as the battery goes I am super limited on space in this truck. There is really no room to install a second battery in the cab, nor is there any where under the hood. These issues were the same with original alternator and battery. The red top was free to me, as well as the alternator. I figured even though I'd rather have something around 250amp, the 180 has to be better than the 130amp that the truck came with.

Any battery recommendations? The redtop is rated at a higher CCA and CA than the physically larger original battery.

[Duran 387]

Not the original either, I recommend XS Power batteries, Kinetik as well.

[dbsupra 69]

Another alternative to an XS, Kinetik, etc is a Diehard Platinum. I've been real happy with mine and has a 4yr replacement.

Also might consider the Deka Intimidator/Super Start Extreme.

I would also add some more grounds. From the battery to the frame and engine block to the frame.

Are you using AGU fuses? I've seen some that have poor quality soldering and causing a voltage drop across them.

[JohnHinerman 10]

Another alternative to an XS, Kinetik, etc is a Diehard Platinum. I've been real happy with mine and has a 4yr replacement.

Also might consider the Deka Intimidator/Super Start Extreme.

I would also add some more grounds. From the battery to the frame and engine block to the frame.

Are you using AGU fuses? I've seen some that have poor quality soldering and causing a voltage drop across them.

I've seen the intimidators at Napa. I just don't what what I am actually looking at with these batteries. How important is the CCA and CA ratings? And is a physically larger battery any better if it has lesser rated CA and CCAs than a smaller battery?

I added a 1/0 Ground cable from the battery to one of the factory grounding locations.

Fuses are 200a ANL at the battery, and a 100a mini-anl and 60a mini-anl at the dist block.

[shizzzon 461]

the best person to talk to about PCM controlled eletrical system is DC Power. They have helped out on many vehicles like this and can give advice on what you can do or can't do and why.

[JohnHinerman 10]

the best person to talk to about PCM controlled eletrical system is DC Power. They have helped out on many vehicles like this and can give advice on what you can do or can't do and why.

I appreciate it. I will try to get a hold of them.

on a side note, I went out and did a little bit of testing, and here is what I am seeing.

ground resistance for the amps is 0.0000 which is as perfect as you can get. At idle with my MAC DMM, idle voltage at the battery is 14.22-14.38. Fluctuates. I am seeing the same voltages at the amp power and ground.

My test track I've been using is "Put on" by Jeezy. With it playing loud, I am seeing voltages at the amp drop down as much as 8.8 Volts. At 1500 RPM it will drop down as low as 10.8

I then brought out one of my Yellow tops from my boat and connected it to the installed battery with some cheap small gauge jumper cables because that what I had easy access to. With both batteries hooked up, I am seeing voltage drops down closer to around 12.2 - 12.85 at the amplifier.

This leads me to believe (and I could still be wrong) that either installing one really good main battery in the truck, or somehow adding another one somewhere (looking under the hood doesn't leave me with much to work with as far as adding another battery)

That being said, It may now just be an issue of finding the perfect battery. The problem with all of the Kinetic batteries that I am looking at is that the polarity of the battery terminals is incorrect for the vehicle.

The XS Power D1200 looks like it will work by the dimensions. It then shows a spec of 2600 Max amps. My next question is then, are these batteries actually going to perform differently than the OEM or Optima which is in it now? And if so, Does this D1200 appear to be "strong enough" of a battery that it may actually help my situation similar to have the two batteries hooked up as in my test?

I am a little leery of spending $250 on a battery hoping that it might fix something.

I thank everyone for chiming in and helping, and I am sorry that my posts are so long. Just trying to cover everything.

[shizzzon 461]

honestly, you did the measurements wrong...

For one, you can't measure ground resistance the way you did..

You measured the resistance of the WIRE!

How do you think you got a reading at all?

2nd, voltage at batt and amp will be consistent until you put a heavy load on electrical system for 10-60seconds.

Once you do that, then measure voltage at batt then at amp...

Without running dedicated grounds from front batt to rear, voltage drop potential is always high..

Unfortunately, you cannot run extra grounds without either a rear batt or some ground Point like a distribution block or something.

[Julian 641]

Cca is very important, it is a 500 a draw over 30 seconds at 32f, which is typical of how car audio affects our battery

[JohnHinerman 10]

honestly, you did the measurements wrong...

For one, you can't measure ground resistance the way you did..

You measured the resistance of the WIRE!

How do you think you got a reading at all?

2nd, voltage at batt and amp will be consistent until you put a heavy load on electrical system for 10-60seconds.

Once you do that, then measure voltage at batt then at amp...

Without running dedicated grounds from front batt to rear, voltage drop potential is always high..

Unfortunately, you cannot run extra grounds without either a rear batt or some ground Point like a distribution block or something.

If I disconnect the positive battery cable, put one lead of the mm to the negative battery terminal, and the other lead at the ground of the amplifier, I'm pretty sure I'm measuring ground resistance, no? that is the resistance of the ground path from the amplifier to the ground of the battery?

I'm getting the same voltage readings at the battery as I am at the amplifier, and seeing the same voltage drop at each also.

[shizzzon 461]

measure voltage after playing for a while.. If your voltage is still consistent, then you are GOOD!

[JohnHinerman 10]

Another option I was just looking at is to add a second smaller Kinetik or XS battery. There is enough room on my battery tray to add either a Kinetik KHC600 or XS D680 next to the Optima that is in there now. With the Optima slid all the way to one side, there is room to fit either one of those batteries along with it. I just don't know if either of them would provide enough of a "boost" when paired with the Optima. Kinetik rates their battery in "watts" and xs shows Max Amps. I *think* that the XS is a little more powerful than the Kinetik? But I'm not totally sure. Not sure how these two batteries would work in comparison to using just a single XS D1200 under the hood...

This whole process sucks lol Never had to deal with this....