Back at it again, doors or kicks?

[ssh 924]

was the stage and image higher than your origional setup ??

Honestly it wasn't.

Now I'm just deciding, above post.

[Randal Johnson 544]

did you try the tweeters higher ?? like in the middle of the a-pillar ??

[edouble101 314]

did you try the tweeters higher ?? like in the middle of the a-pillar ??

No doubt, get those tweets ear level and aimed at each other

[ssh 924]

did you try the tweeters higher ?? like in the middle of the a-pillar ??

I didn't try the tweeters higher, partially because they are fairly big and I don't want to mount them any higher, and mainly because where they sat on the dash already supplied a stage that appeared over the top of the hood (alike my kicks )

[lithium 358]

with a 3 way you wouldn't necessarily need a tweeter like you currently have to cover frequencies above what the mid range will play.

my set up is peerless sls 8, tangband w4 (1337sd iirc), and dayton nd20. mb in doors, mid on axis in kicks, and tweeter off axis on the a pillar.

the w4's can practically be run full range if not for being installed in the kick (leg reflections on the driver side). my setting were wiped out the other day so i need to re-tune the entire system but iirc the tweeters pick up about 5-6k

my point is, you could use a smaller tweeter to find the best location for the tweeter on the a pillar.

alternatively, the dash location may work with your current tweeter.

in either case you wont know without some experimentation. you could pick up a tweeter from parts express, like the nd20, and experiment with more locations.

this thread may be a bit premature considering you haven't finished your new kicks yet.

[ssh 924]

with a 3 way you wouldn't necessarily need a tweeter like you currently have to cover frequencies above what the mid range will play.

my set up is peerless sls 8, tangband w4 (1337sd iirc), and dayton nd20. mb in doors, mid on axis in kicks, and tweeter off axis on the a pillar.

the w4's can practically be run full range if not for being installed in the kick (leg reflections on the driver side). my setting were wiped out the other day so i need to re-tune the entire system but iirc the tweeters pick up about 5-6k

my point is, you could use a smaller tweeter to find the best location for the tweeter on the a pillar.

alternatively, the dash location may work with your current tweeter.

in either case you wont know without some experimentation. you could pick up a tweeter from parts express, like the nd20, and experiment with more locations.

this thread may be a bit premature considering you haven't finished your new kicks yet.

I'm not finishing my new kicks, I plan on using the bases I've already made for smaller kicks containing: either midrange solely, or midrange + tweet.

I've seen several setups with midranges that covered the spectrum high enough to where tweets weren't needed. I have mine already, so I don't know if I should still use them but cross them pretty high.

The tweets sounded fine in the dash, but I don't know how the entire stage will sound if the tweets are in the dash, and midranges are in the kicks. So perhaps I'd use midranges in the kicks, and no tweets.

I've thought long and hard, and decided I want to regain my foot space.

Goals: regain foot space, improve midbass output, improve staging, and get rid of this "screeching" sound I hear on some content.

I believe midbass output & staging can be improved just by a better installation, and I think adding a third driver (midrange) or replacing the tweeter with a midrange, will reduce each speaker's wide bandwidth and hopefully fix the noise I'm hearing on some content.

I figured splitting up the frequency spectrum to three drivers instead of two would allow them all to perform better, assuming they are installed in a good fashion (which why I'm posting ) I believe I'm capable of dealing with all the tweaking a 3-way would entail, and I have a better grip on the ms8 now.

This leaves me with one last place for the midbass drivers, the doors.

I've been thinking how I'd make the doors work, http://caraudiomag.com/articles/how-build-audiophile-car-stereo-system-part-7

I like the idea of fiberglassing over the sheet metal and making a base for the speaker enclosure. Once they had the base, they filled the area with clay, then glassed over that. Then they had the base and a shell with baffle. These both mount to the door.

That I can do.

The part I'm lost is when they glass over the stock panel so it covers over the speak enclosure, that I can't do since my door panel is thin particle wood wrapped in vinyl / pleather, not plastic.

I know it sounds and looks somewhat extreme, but nothing else has crossed my mind.

[ssh 924]

I'm going to buy some 3" - 4" midranges in replacement of the peerless tweets and see how it sounds. I'll try them in the stock dash location, and tape up against the a-pillars (at the bottom).

Going to make a new baffle for just the exodus, and see if I can raise them a little higher in the kick area. <-If this doesn't work, I'll start some planning on the doors.

If the speakers aren't an improvement I can always sell them, not worried about money--yet.

I think this is what I'm going to try, tomorrow morning I might think something completely different.

Sorry for running everyone around in circles.

[Randal Johnson 544]

Best of luck Sir !!! Get to work !!!

[lithium 358]

with a 3 way you wouldn't necessarily need a tweeter like you currently have to cover frequencies above what the mid range will play.

my set up is peerless sls 8, tangband w4 (1337sd iirc), and dayton nd20. mb in doors, mid on axis in kicks, and tweeter off axis on the a pillar.

the w4's can practically be run full range if not for being installed in the kick (leg reflections on the driver side). my setting were wiped out the other day so i need to re-tune the entire system but iirc the tweeters pick up about 5-6k

my point is, you could use a smaller tweeter to find the best location for the tweeter on the a pillar.

alternatively, the dash location may work with your current tweeter.

in either case you wont know without some experimentation. you could pick up a tweeter from parts express, like the nd20, and experiment with more locations.

this thread may be a bit premature considering you haven't finished your new kicks yet.

I'm not finishing my new kicks, I plan on using the bases I've already made for smaller kicks containing: either midrange solely, or midrange + tweet.

I've seen several setups with midranges that covered the spectrum high enough to where tweets weren't needed. I have mine already, so I don't know if I should still use them but cross them pretty high.

i use to run a 3" fullrange with my sls 8s. they were installed on axis in the a pillars. they covered the top end pretty well as long as you kept them on axis. the problem i faced with the 3" was that it couldn't mate up well enough on the low end with my sls 8's. the ex anarchy's can play much higher so this may not be a problem for you.

i also used a fountek and dayton combo in my brothers car that worked pretty well. i've posted pics of the a pillar's before.

The tweets sounded fine in the dash, but I don't know how the entire stage will sound if the tweets are in the dash, and midranges are in the kicks. So perhaps I'd use midranges in the kicks, and no tweets.

i dont see much of a downside to putting the midrange in the kicks.. technically you kind of have an idea of how a kick panel install sounds in your car already (in terms of stage height, width, etc.).

I've thought long and hard, and decided I want to regain my foot space.

Goals: regain foot space, improve midbass output, improve staging, and get rid of this "screeching" sound I hear on some content.

I believe midbass output & staging can be improved just by a better installation, and I think adding a third driver (midrange) or replacing the tweeter with a midrange, will reduce each speaker's wide bandwidth and hopefully fix the noise I'm hearing on some content.

I figured splitting up the frequency spectrum to three drivers instead of two would allow them all to perform better, assuming they are installed in a good fashion (which why I'm posting ) I believe I'm capable of dealing with all the tweaking a 3-way would entail, and I have a better grip on the ms8 now.

This leaves me with one last place for the midbass drivers, the doors.

I've been thinking how I'd make the doors work, http://caraudiomag.com/articles/how-build-audiophile-car-stereo-system-part-7

I like the idea of fiberglassing over the sheet metal and making a base for the speaker enclosure. Once they had the base, they filled the area with clay, then glassed over that. Then they had the base and a shell with baffle. These both mount to the door.

That I can do.

The part I'm lost is when they glass over the stock panel so it covers over the speak enclosure, that I can't do since my door panel is thin particle wood wrapped in vinyl / pleather, not plastic.

I know it sounds and looks somewhat extreme, but nothing else has crossed my mind.

holy shit, if you want to do something like this you might as well go with a larger midbass... 8" or even a 10"

would not a more traditional door install work with your current woofers?

check out this sentra build, 03 sentra spec v

[lithium 358]

I'm going to buy some 3" - 4" midranges in replacement of the peerless tweets and see how it sounds. I'll try them in the stock dash location, and tape up against the a-pillars (at the bottom).

Going to make a new baffle for just the exodus, and see if I can raise them a little higher in the kick area. <-If this doesn't work, I'll start some planning on the doors.

If the speakers aren't an improvement I can always sell them, not worried about money--yet.

I think this is what I'm going to try, tomorrow morning I might think something completely different.

Sorry for running everyone around in circles.

check out zaphaudio.com for some 3-4 inch midrange ideas if you dont already have a list.

[lithium 358]

this is my idea for fiberglassing on a door without cutting much if any door trim. of course you would have to remove the stock grille. i should mention i have yet to try this out but i dont see a reason for why it wont work. i think the key to it would be keeping the pod isolated from the door trim which reduces rattles.

[Randal Johnson 544]

Could do something like this ...

just a suggestion ...

[ssh 924]

Thanks for insight and pics Lithium, unfortunately with the door closed it does not allow for a driver much bigger then what I already have, perhaps I could squeeze an additional inch in OD.

I'll check out the pic and sentra build.

Cablguy, that's a possibility, if I cut around the my particle wood door panel, then make a fiberglass trim piece to go over. Only issue with that the exodus' are suited for sealed or ported applications, perhaps I can make some combination work.

[Randal Johnson 544]

Cablguy, that's a possibility, if I cut around the my particle wood door panel, then make a fiberglass trim piece to go over. Only issue with that the exodus' are suited for sealed or ported applications, perhaps I can make some combination work.

Just before Blues rolled out their new drivers, I bought a pair of Exodus 6.5s and a pair of Shiva 12s ...

The 6.5s will work in a sealed as tight as possible door ... Id be willing to bet on it !!! and I'd also be willing to bet that those drivers will work "full range" in that application too ... I'm not saying to blast rap music to them like that, but great SQ listening music, you'd be suprised my friend ...

I had some long talks to the owner of Exodus when I came back into competition ... More than likely, leave them full range on the top end and cut them off at 40 to 70 htz on the low end ... depending on what music you listen too ...

[ssh 924]

Cablguy, that's a possibility, if I cut around the my particle wood door panel, then make a fiberglass trim piece to go over. Only issue with that the exodus' are suited for sealed or ported applications, perhaps I can make some combination work.

Just before Blues rolled out their new drivers, I bought a pair of Exodus 6.5s and a pair of Shiva 12s ...

The 6.5s will work in a sealed as tight as possible door ... Id be willing to bet on it !!! and I'd also be willing to bet that those drivers will work "full range" in that application too ... I'm not saying to blast rap music to them like that, but great SQ listening music, you'd be suprised my friend ...

I had some long talks to the owner of Exodus when I came back into competition ... More than likely, leave them full range on the top end and cut them off at 40 to 70 htz on the low end ... depending on what music you listen too ...

I may may be able to glass behind the baffle opening and make a enclosure, big maybe, but there is absolutely no way they will work full range. My kick panels yielded .15-.3 ft^3 I'm guessing, and cone break up was apparent when crossed over around 2500hz with a steep slope at higher listening. I wasn't playing electronic, rap, dubstep, etc.

[Randal Johnson 544]

Thats cool bro ... I just suggested that because there was a MAJOR difference between my vented (to the outside of the truck) kick pannels and my sealed and deadened doors ... Drivers came more "alive" tonaly and seemed to handle more power ... I made my comparison with those Exodus drivers in both locations along with the drivers I have in there now ...

There may not be much difference between your doors and your kicks ... Every vehicle is different. Only one way to find out, Trial and error ...

[ssh 924]

Yeah im going to around with the kicks more and see how the exodus' sound higher up under the dash. Im glad I got this afternoon and all of tomorrow to play around.

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

You seem confused? You should study the way the human ear precieves sound and I think you will have a better game plan. Know your control points and quit second guessing them.

[///M5 2,833]

I would get smaller tweeters and mount them in the a-pillars to start off with a eye-level sound stage and go from there ...

Yes, install the mid drivers in the doors ...

And do not use the kicks unless there is no other option ... I thought those kicks you made (looked great but ...) was taking up too much leg room ...

You also buy crap speakers, subscribe to psychoacoustic nonsense and generally have no idea what you are talking about. Stefan ignore 100% of that post. Seriously confused.

[///M5 2,833]

Ouch, successive advice isn't better. Holy KOOLAID.

I'm going to buy some 3" - 4" midranges in replacement of the peerless tweets and see how it sounds. I'll try them in the stock dash location, and tape up against the a-pillars (at the bottom).

Going to make a new baffle for just the exodus, and see if I can raise them a little higher in the kick area. <-If this doesn't work, I'll start some planning on the doors.

If the speakers aren't an improvement I can always sell them, not worried about money--yet.

I think this is what I'm going to try, tomorrow morning I might think something completely different.

Sorry for running everyone around in circles.

Hope you haven't bought them yet. Full rangers if used in a 2 way MUST be on axis.

[Randal Johnson 544]

You also buy crap speakers, subscribe to psychoacoustic nonsense and generally have no idea what you are talking about. Stefan ignore 100% of that post. Seriously confused.

WOW

Ok, matter of opinion here I guess.

He built a set of kick pannels the way you told him to, didn't like them, and pulled them out for some reason.

Most likely because of not having enough leg room. So what makes your suggestions any better ?? If your suggestions would have done their job correctly, he wouldn't be back to the drawing board on this project and working on something else ...

[///M5 2,833]

Your recommendation was based on your opinion of stage and not his view. As for building them to my recommendations that isn't the case, but definitely he learned a few things while asking questions before.

[Randal Johnson 544]

Your recommendation was based on your opinion of stage and not his view. As for building them to my recommendations that isn't the case, but definitely he learned a few things while asking questions before.

Yes, he learned a few things, the information he got in his past threads from you did not work for his application.

[ricksi30 923]

Play nice haha...

[ssh 924]

Ouch, successive advice isn't better. Holy KOOLAID.

I'm going to buy some 3" - 4" midranges in replacement of the peerless tweets and see how it sounds. I'll try them in the stock dash location, and tape up against the a-pillars (at the bottom).

Going to make a new baffle for just the exodus, and see if I can raise them a little higher in the kick area. <-If this doesn't work, I'll start some planning on the doors.

If the speakers aren't an improvement I can always sell them, not worried about money--yet.

I think this is what I'm going to try, tomorrow morning I might think something completely different.

Sorry for running everyone around in circles.

Hope you haven't bought them yet. Full rangers if used in a 2 way MUST be on axis.

Yeah Yeah I know.

I'm going to try the exodus' in the doors and tweets on the a-pillar / dash.

Decide if I still think more power will help alleviate the annoying sound at high volume. (the amp is like 75w at 4ohm, Re is 6.1 or 6.4 on the exodus, rms is upwards of 125w, I'm ASSuming my amp is running out of headroom and distorting on some material).

I can actually disconnect the tweeters, and bridge the amp for more power just to see if that helps with the issue before buying another amp.

Listen for a week or so, then decide if I wanted to switch the tweets for midranges / use both, and throw them on the a-pillars.