Equalizing front stage

[REVpuggie 23]

I've had a buch of bass installs , never payed much attention EQíng the front stage because the bass was simply to loud to notice the flaws the frontstage had

Now I want to attempt to get a frontstage that is more than decent , no SQ comps , just for my enjoyment I want have it really good .

A good part of a system is EQing the system to get the staging tonal balance just right , but with what music or reference tracks best to do that with ?

reason I'm asking is because I keep turning on knobs cause I can't find "it" what I'm looking for with the music I'm familiar with .. there must be some stuff that can get you close in "steps" followed in a logical order

[bassahaulic 155]

What do you mean by "EQing"?

[pmureika 31]

What do you mean by "EQing"?

I think he means going active?

[REVpuggie 23]

TA , parametric EQ , level per speaker ...........all needed to get a relatively flat response and good staging (at the same time).

[bassahaulic 155]

TA , parametric EQ , level per speaker ...........all needed to get a relatively flat response and good staging (at the same time).

I am 100% of what needs to be done. I wasn't sure on what you thought "EQing" was.

My front stage scores amazingly in SQ comps. I know what it all is.

Good luck.

[Impious 1,476]

I'm not familiar with your processor (H100 listed in your signature, presume that's what you're referring to).

Give us a quick run down of what processing power it has (how many bands, center frequencies, is the EQ independent L/R or not, etc) and some details about your system layout (active or passive, where are speakers located, etc).

The short answer is that it's made most simple by having access to good equipment such as an RTA or MLS measurement setup. I'm presuming that's not an option.

[edouble101 314]

Your level of tuning ability will be directly dependent on your equipment.

Log on to DIYMA. The SQ sub section has great information on SQ system design and tuning.

[REVpuggie 23]

I'm not familiar with your processor (H100 listed in your signature, presume that's what you're referring to).

Give us a quick run down of what processing power it has (how many bands, center frequencies, is the EQ independent L/R or not, etc) and some details about your system layout (active or passive, where are speakers located, etc).

The short answer is that it's made most simple by having access to good equipment such as an RTA or MLS measurement setup. I'm presuming that's not an option.

5 band parametric,level up to +6/-6 ,not L/R independant or graphic 7 band , x-over L/R independant , TA 0 to 360 centimeters (about 4 yards) per driver , stock placement for the speakers high up in the door for tweeters and midbass far low corner of the door ... active , not really looking for a new place to put the tweeters because I want a stock look and I dont want to mess with the airbags on the sides of the windshield , got some work to do on the doors but its come a long way

looking into buying the RTA set from Termlab as I already have a termlab and RTA software ... but no at this point not available

Your level of tuning ability will be directly dependent on your equipment.

Log on to DIYMA. The SQ sub section has great information on SQ system design and tuning.

great I'll look into that .

but guys the question really was for some great tunes to tune the setup !! what to look for ??

mailed an aquentance of mine , national champion a few times over and he'd give me some of his CD's so I'm probably set

[Impious 1,476]

You will need to TA the mids. TA on the tweeters is much trickier. Since we generally localize higher frequencies by interaural intensity difference time alignment on tweeters will potentially not change the imaging/soundstage in that bandwidth, depending on how low the xover frequency is. But what will change is the interaction and phasing between the mid and tweeter if you TA the mid but not the tweeter which can potentially cause some FR anomolies around the crossover frequency depending on speaker placement, frequency and environmental factors. My best advice here is to TA the mids then TA the same side tweeter by the same amount and see if you notice a difference.

TA shouldn't be too difficult. I've always done it by ear personally. Anything with a good center image should do. When you get the right amount of TA midbass/midrange will become much more coherent and centered, go to far & it starts to lose it's coherency again and sounds a little bit like listening to speakers in a hallway. The first non-music option is to measure the difference in speaker distances between their location and the listening position and use that difference as the setting for the TA (which given the TA is given in distance in the processor, I'm guessing that's how the processing is setup). The other non-music option is to use a good MLS or equivalent measurement setup and measure the impulse difference. Much more accurate, but again I've always had luck just doing it ear.

EQ is a little more complicated. Without a well trained ear, doing it by ear with music you're not extremely familiar with (and by "familiar with" I mean "familiar with how it should actually sound on a good reference system" and not just "I've listened to it a hundred times") is basically like throwing darts at a board. Part of the problem with using music is that you end up Eq'ing based on your preferences for that particular song rather than the actual frequency response of the system so you'll get it setup to sound great on that one song but it'll sound wrong on another.

If a good measurement system is not an option at this point, rather than worrying about a particular song or songs, I would first familiarize yourself with general tuning principle's and what instruments affect what frequency bandwidths, what anomalies (such as sibilance) fall within which bandwidth, etc. It will help you out a lot when you are listening to music to more quickly narrow down where problem areas may be located.

This link may help: http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm

[REVpuggie 23]

Thanx Impious , but that was one one the first things I looked for ... J. roadtatts found them back for me actually a couple of days ago

And also thanx to Edouble101 , that SQ subsection on DIYMA Is great , I've spend a few hours there reading yesterday and It is full of usefull info ! It helped me find the most anoying peak and biggest dip in the response this morning i wasnt able to locate... sounds a lot better now !

come to think of it my last car was soooo much easier to equalize ... must have been the 3inch mids in cabinets that made it so damn easy

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

Here is the EQ settings available and what the freq's of the graphic EQ are.

5- Band Parametric EQ: The built-in Parametric EQ allows you to adjust the following 5 frequency bands in 1/3 octave steps from -6 to +6 dB at a bandwidth Q factor of 1, 1.5, or 3

• Band 1: 20 Hz to 80 Hz
• Band 2: 50 Hz to 200 Hz
• Band 3: 125 Hz to 3.2 kHz
• Band 4: 315 Hz to 8 kHz
• Band 5: 800 Hz to 20 kHz

<LI>7-Band Graphic EQ: The built-in Graphic EQ allows you to adjust the following 7 frequencies from -6 to +6 dB

• Band 1: 63 Hz
• Band 2: 150 Hz
• Band 3: 400 Hz
• Band 4: 1 kHz
• Band 5: 2.5 kHz
• Band 6: 6.3 kHz
• Band 7: 17.5 kHz

Here is a few lists of good rock drum and rock bass guitar songs for you brother.

http://digitaldreamd...t_drumperf.html

http://digitaldreamd...t_bassperf.html

[edouble101 314]

http://digitaldreamd...t_drumperf.html

http://digitaldreamd...t_bassperf.html

Bookmarked

[REVpuggie 23]

Here is the EQ settings available and what the freq's of the graphic EQ are.

5- Band Parametric EQ: The built-in Parametric EQ allows you to adjust the following 5 frequency bands in 1/3 octave steps from -6 to +6 dB at a bandwidth Q factor of 1, 1.5, or 3

• Band 1: 20 Hz to 80 Hz
• Band 2: 50 Hz to 200 Hz
• Band 3: 125 Hz to 3.2 kHz
• Band 4: 315 Hz to 8 kHz
• Band 5: 800 Hz to 20 kHz

<LI>7-Band Graphic EQ: The built-in Graphic EQ allows you to adjust the following 7 frequencies from -6 to +6 dB

• Band 1: 63 Hz
• Band 2: 150 Hz
• Band 3: 400 Hz
• Band 4: 1 kHz
• Band 5: 2.5 kHz
• Band 6: 6.3 kHz
• Band 7: 17.5 kHz

Here is a few lists of good rock drum and rock bass guitar songs for you brother.

http://digitaldreamd...t_drumperf.html

http://digitaldreamd...t_bassperf.html

the info is in the manual but thanx !!

list looks good ! We talked about judas priest - painkiller ... the 2 versions I got on my stereo sound kind of hollow ... are all versions like that ?

for upgrading my front I'm thinkin about a tweeter that can be crossed really low (preferably 1 / 1.2 , at the most 1.4 Khz) would the Scanspeak R3004 series be able to do that ... all given values are given with an 2nd order butterworth @ 2.5 khz eventhough their Fs is below 600 , I also would love to try a ringradiator from that series ! all this to get some of that wideband speaker sound back without sacrificing in the highs , I dont have a lot of room because of airbags , so therefore a tweeter that has got its own backchamber and I don't have to build a large pod and placement will be better ....

any good ideas ? would like to keep it under 350 bucks

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

list looks good ! We talked about judas priest - painkiller ... the 2 versions I got on my stereo sound kind of hollow ... are all versions like that ?

for upgrading my front I'm thinkin about a tweeter that can be crossed really low (preferably 1 / 1.2 , at the most 1.4 Khz) would the Scanspeak R3004 series be able to do that ... all given values are given with an 2nd order butterworth @ 2.5 khz eventhough their Fs is below 600 , I also would love to try a ringradiator from that series ! all this to get some of that wideband speaker sound back without sacrificing in the highs , I dont have a lot of room because of airbags , so therefore a tweeter that has got its own backchamber and I don't have to build a large pod and placement will be better ....

any good ideas ? would like to keep it under 350 bucks

You think the painkiller song is hollow in the midbass range? Typically I have pretty good luck with clean midbass freq's without so much sub bass from most any Judist Priest song.

I don't have any experience with those tweeters so i can't comment on that. I imagine there is probly a few cheaper options also but don't have any suggestions. Good luck Brother.

[REVpuggie 23]

list looks good ! We talked about judas priest - painkiller ... the 2 versions I got on my stereo sound kind of hollow ... are all versions like that ?

for upgrading my front I'm thinkin about a tweeter that can be crossed really low (preferably 1 / 1.2 , at the most 1.4 Khz) would the Scanspeak R3004 series be able to do that ... all given values are given with an 2nd order butterworth @ 2.5 khz eventhough their Fs is below 600 , I also would love to try a ringradiator from that series ! all this to get some of that wideband speaker sound back without sacrificing in the highs , I dont have a lot of room because of airbags , so therefore a tweeter that has got its own backchamber and I don't have to build a large pod and placement will be better ....

any good ideas ? would like to keep it under 350 bucks

You think the painkiller song is hollow in the midbass range? Typically I have pretty good luck with clean midbass freq's without so much sub bass from most any Judist Priest song.

I don't have any experience with those tweeters so i can't comment on that. I imagine there is probly a few cheaper options also but don't have any suggestions. Good luck Brother.

I meant its sounds like I'm an near empty room with concrete walls ... the drumsolo is amazing , just makes me wonder where they recorded that song

[j-roadtatts 1,129]

So you think the song sounds to sterile? Hard to say as it was recorded around the time everything was getting recorded digital instead of analog. Try some older Priest maybe? Deep Purple has some good drum solo's also.