would this work.

[liljestrand 244]

Ok so atm I have the ia comps and have them set at 120 lpf. If I go lower they start to bottom out.

So I was thinking of going to a 3 "way" setup with some of the new sa8 v2's. I thought about trying to make them fit in the door but thats unlikely

So my next thought is to either box them under the front seats or......build boxes to place behind the front seats on the floors.

Now I'm only wanting these to fill in the 60ish-120ish area so I'm thinking sealed boxes.

Would this work or is it just a plan to fail?

[Shogen 325]

Hmmmm

[S.DeYoung 968]

In short, no. Mid-bass frequencies are better in front of you. If you want to play lower upgrade. I have Mach 5 MLIs and they are crossed over at 60hz. I used to have those components and they played down to 80hz for me fine.

[Kanaworm$ 292]

I would recommend either the new NeoPro 6.5" that are coming out or going with the NeoPro 8" from Sundown. They were designed to be ran as a midbass in door applications.

[Skullz 8]

I bought a set of PPI PC3.65c's and have the same problem with no low end extension what so ever and if it is played anywhere near 100hz or lower it just sounds like they have a hard time trying to play the notes, i am thinking about getting 4 of these to replace those mid's. From everything i have been able to find you just want to cross them over around 2500hz and under so if you go with a 3way set-up you should be good to go.

http://www.diycable.com/main/default.php?cPath=24&Cid=f704ecd3f26cfa4c90b3a7773a1b60af

[Randal Johnson 544]

How well is your door installation ?? meaning Sound Deadning through out ?? seal all the air openings ?? any foam to help prevent air leaks ???

[liljestrand 244]

Did the full sds treatment. cld,ccf.mlv will be pulling the panls to confirm its bottoming out and not something hittin the speakers

[Impious 1,476]

In short, no. Mid-bass frequencies are better in front of you. If you want to play lower upgrade. I have Mach 5 MLIs and they are crossed over at 60hz. I used to have those components and they played down to 80hz for me fine.

For true midbass frequencies, having the speakers located in front of you doesn't really matter. But you would still want them as wide as possible.....under or directly behind the seats are both generally poor options.

I don't see why you shouldn't be able to get performance under 120hz with them unless you are simply pushing them significantly past their output limitations.

Are you playing them at an excessively loud level when they appear to start bottoming out?

[Impious 1,476]

I bought a set of PPI PC3.65c's and have the same problem with no low end extension what so ever and if it is played anywhere near 100hz or lower it just sounds like they have a hard time trying to play the notes, i am thinking about getting 4 of these to replace those mid's. From everything i have been able to find you just want to cross them over around 2500hz and under so if you go with a 3way set-up you should be good to go.

http://www.diycable....0b3a7773a1b60af

Though the Exodus are generally a good option, it would require going active.

[liljestrand 244]

In short, no. Mid-bass frequencies are better in front of you. If you want to play lower upgrade. I have Mach 5 MLIs and they are crossed over at 60hz. I used to have those components and they played down to 80hz for me fine.

For true midbass frequencies, having the speakers located in front of you doesn't really matter. But you would still want them as wide as possible.....under or directly behind the seats are both generally poor options.

I don't see why you shouldn't be able to get performance under 120hz with them unless you are simply pushing them significantly past their output limitations.

Are you playing them at an excessively loud level when they appear to start bottoming out?

I am playing them at full tilt. I used a dd1 to set gains and I'm only pushing 60 watts at them. Believe they are rated for 90 iirc.

Like I said im going to take the door panel off tomorrow and check to make sure that the ccf/mlv hasnt shifted and thats whats making the sound. It seems to only come out of the driver side so that is possibly the problem.

About the exodus. going active wouldnt be a problem. My deck (880prs) is active capable and was actually planning on doing it sometime soon.

[Luke.H 33]

In short, no. Mid-bass frequencies are better in front of you. If you want to play lower upgrade. I have Mach 5 MLIs and they are crossed over at 60hz. I used to have those components and they played down to 80hz for me fine.

For true midbass frequencies, having the speakers located in front of you doesn't really matter. But you would still want them as wide as possible.....under or directly behind the seats are both generally poor options.

I don't see why you shouldn't be able to get performance under 120hz with them unless you are simply pushing them significantly past their output limitations.

Are you playing them at an excessively loud level when they appear to start bottoming out?

I am playing them at full tilt. I used a dd1 to set gains and I'm only pushing 60 watts at them. Believe they are rated for 90 iirc.

Like I said im going to take the door panel off tomorrow and check to make sure that the ccf/mlv hasnt shifted and thats whats making the sound. It seems to only come out of the driver side so that is possibly the problem.

About the exodus. going active wouldnt be a problem. My deck (880prs) is active capable and was actually planning on doing it sometime soon.

RMS ratings for components are essentially meaningless. It'll vary depending on enclosure and frequency. Sounds like they're being pushed past their limits, I have trouble believing they can't play below 120Hz unless they're being pushed past their limits.

If the Exodus is something you decide to pursue keep in mind it's not a driver well suited to a 2 way with a tweeter as any high excursion driver like that will need to be crossed fairly low. If you wanted to do a 2 way it would be possible to run it with a full ranger on axis, but I don't think it would be "loud".

[liljestrand 244]

I was looking at going 3 way as a possiblity. Possibly putting a 4in in the a pillars. will have to take out the curtain airbags for that though

[liljestrand 244]

Ok so scratch the idea of putting this under/behind the seat.

After being inspired by j-roadtatts 12's in his doors I'm going to attempt to put the sa8 v2's in my doors.

Meausred the areas and feel that I can put these in no problem with some modification.

[Shogen 325]

you are crazy jes!!!

[altoncustomtech 773]

Crazy like a fox....

I think if it's properly executed it will turn out great. Looking forward to watching them get shoehorned into them doors!

[Shogen 325]

He's gonna need another car to put those sa-8s in and tow it.

[liljestrand 244]

im thiking inverted now!

[S.DeYoung 968]

I think you could find a lot better drivers for mid bass duty.

[edouble101 314]

Ok so atm I have the ia comps and have them set at 120 lpf. If I go lower they start to bottom out.So I was thinking of going to a 3 "way" setup with some of the new sa8 v2's. I thought about trying to make them fit in the door but thats unlikely So my next thought is to either box them under the front seats or......build boxes to place behind the front seats on the floors.Now I'm only wanting these to fill in the 60ish-120ish area so I'm thinking sealed boxes.Would this work or is it just a plan to fail?

Why do you have a component set running at 120 lpf? How do you know this? What processor do you have?

In short, no. Mid-bass frequencies are better in front of you. If you want to play lower upgrade. I have Mach 5 MLIs and they are crossed over at 60hz. I used to have those components and they played down to 80hz for me fine.

For true midbass frequencies, having the speakers located in front of you doesn't really matter. But you would still want them as wide as possible.....under or directly behind the seats are both generally poor options.I don't see why you shouldn't be able to get performance under 120hz with them unless you are simply pushing them significantly past their output limitations. Are you playing them at an excessively loud level when they appear to start bottoming out?

Completely disagree Impious. Midbass freqs should definitely be played by front stage drivers. Your comment on having midbass drivers as wide as possible is contradictory to your previous statement Midbass drivers are best mounted in the doors with proper deadening.

[Impious 1,476]

Ok so atm I have the ia comps and have them set at 120 lpf. If I go lower they start to bottom out.So I was thinking of going to a 3 "way" setup with some of the new sa8 v2's. I thought about trying to make them fit in the door but thats unlikely So my next thought is to either box them under the front seats or......build boxes to place behind the front seats on the floors.Now I'm only wanting these to fill in the 60ish-120ish area so I'm thinking sealed boxes.Would this work or is it just a plan to fail?

Why do you have a component set running at 120 lpf? How do you know this? What processor do you have?

I presumed he just typed LPF instead of HPF.

In short, no. Mid-bass frequencies are better in front of you. If you want to play lower upgrade. I have Mach 5 MLIs and they are crossed over at 60hz. I used to have those components and they played down to 80hz for me fine.

For true midbass frequencies, having the speakers located in front of you doesn't really matter. But you would still want them as wide as possible.....under or directly behind the seats are both generally poor options.I don't see why you shouldn't be able to get performance under 120hz with them unless you are simply pushing them significantly past their output limitations. Are you playing them at an excessively loud level when they appear to start bottoming out?

Completely disagree Impious. Midbass freqs should definitely be played by front stage drivers. Your comment on having midbass drivers as wide as possible is contradictory to your previous statement Midbass drivers are best mounted in the doors with proper deadening.

Disagree if you wish, but you would be wrong. And the statements are not the least bit contradictory. If you think they are, then you are not reading them properly.

We localize midbass in the lateral plane only (i.e. left to right). We don't localize it on a vertical plane (high and low), and we don't localize it "front to back".

Midbass is localized by way of what's known as Interaural Time Difference (ITD). That is, the brain localizes midbass laterally due a difference in the time arrival of the sound wave between the left ear and right ear. ITD dominates our localization ques in the frequency bandwidth where the wavelengths of the soundwave are longer than the distance between our two ears. Our ears have no hearing mechanism by which to differentiate "front" from "rear" in the midbass frequencies. The wavelengths are too large compared to our hearing mechanisms to locate them vertically or "front to back". Generally the more ITD you can generate, the wider the potential imaging.

From this very basic knowledge, a couple things can be extracted. First, any midbass location that results in identical ITD will be indistinguishable to the ear....above you, below you, in front of you, behind you, it doesn't matter......as long as the ITD stays the same, your ears and your brain won't know the difference. Second thing we should notice is that the WORST location for a midbass is at a location that results in an ITD of or close to zero; that would be DIRECTLY in front of you, DIRECTLY behind you, or directly above or below you. Since "imaging" in the lateral plane is a function of ITD, the "best" midbass location is a location that results in optimal ITD. Which is why I previously stated that you want the speakers located as wide as possible, to allow for proper ITD.

So yes, you can mount midbass drivers behind you....your brain doesn't know the difference. Mount the drivers as wide as possible to maximize ITD. Which means, for example, if the ITD from some given location on the front doors and some given location on the rear doors are identical, you could mount the speakers in either location and you wouldn't be able to tell a difference.

Now, a few caveats to this:

First, hearing rattling/buzzing/etc as a result of the midbass speakers exciting panel resonances (door panels, etc) or other noises will ruin the illusion. Second, the speakers must only be operated within the bandwidth where ITD is the mode of localization. If you operate the driver outside of this bandwidth (this includes driver distortion, etc), then other factors will begin to contribute to our localization of the sound. Proper time alignment of the midbass drivers will need to be maintained with the other drivers in the system as well as between the midbass drivers themselves. Lastly (I think), this does not take into consideration the effects of other factors such as reflections, frequency response anomalies, etc as those will be a case-by-case basis.

All that said....claiming midbass in the front doors is the "best" location is extremely generalized and I wouldn't necessarily agree.

[liljestrand 244]

Yes sorry meant hpf. And its set off my 800prs

[liljestrand 244]

ok so after talking to some people and realizing how mad that sa8 idea may have been, I've been thinking about the exodus's.

Now If I was to do this, this would be the hypothetical situation.

Running the anarchy's and a set of 4 inch speakers off of a crescendo 1100.4

Run some tweets off of the kenwood 60x2 I have now.

My head unit is active capable. So would run the tweets off of the 'high" set of rca's.

Then use the set of mid rca's to go to the 1100.4.

Now this is where I have some questions.

Say I low pass the mids at 2.5k and high pass at 80. Now with that signal can I xover at the amp and have the anarchy's at 80-300, then xover the 4" speakers at 300-2.5k? I hope that makes as much sense as it does in my head.

Now for the tweets i'm looking at the vifa's because they seem to be getting great reviews over on diyma.

But I'm a little stumped on the 4" speakers (mind you 4" is not set in stone, whatever I can make work on the dash). So any ideas on those? Budget I'm looking at under a 100 bucks hopefully for both, and the 1100.4 would be putting out 175 watts per side at 4 ohms.

[vladd 26]

ok so after talking to some people and realizing how mad that sa8 idea may have been, I've been thinking about the exodus's.

Now If I was to do this, this would be the hypothetical situation.

Running the anarchy's and a set of 4 inch speakers off of a crescendo 1100.4

Run some tweets off of the kenwood 60x2 I have now.

My head unit is active capable. So would run the tweets off of the 'high" set of rca's.

Then use the set of mid rca's to go to the 1100.4.

Now this is where I have some questions.

Say I low pass the mids at 2.5k and high pass at 80. Now with that signal can I xover at the amp and have the anarchy's at 80-300, then xover the 4" speakers at 300-2.5k? I hope that makes as much sense as it does in my head.

Now for the tweets i'm looking at the vifa's because they seem to be getting great reviews over on diyma.

But I'm a little stumped on the 4" speakers (mind you 4" is not set in stone, whatever I can make work on the dash). So any ideas on those? Budget I'm looking at under a 100 bucks hopefully for both, and the 1100.4 would be putting out 175 watts per side at 4 ohms.

My $.02

Your door install is lacking, switching speakers won't help this. A new install may remedy the problem but I wouldn't bother swapping out the speakers until you can at least determine what was holding them back. I feel like you're undertaking a very large and potentially disappointing project when a small amount of work may prove more fruitful.

About going 4-way active with the pioneer, yes I believe the way you have it listed will work but I'm not familiar with the 1100.4; the 1000c4's LPF only goes up to 250hz not the 300hz you'd need (splitting hairs but it could prove to be a problem).

If you have room in your dash for a 4" speaker I'd heavily consider putting a full range in and using that to cover the majority of your spectrum, properly installed you should be able to cover everything from <1khz to 20khz without issue.

Two full range examples that I have zero experience with:

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-847

http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-2-fullrange/vifa-ne85w-2.5-fullrange-driver-4-ohm/

[ssh 924]

ok so after talking to some people and realizing how mad that sa8 idea may have been, I've been thinking about the exodus's.

Now If I was to do this, this would be the hypothetical situation.

Running the anarchy's and a set of 4 inch speakers off of a crescendo 1100.4

Run some tweets off of the kenwood 60x2 I have now.

My head unit is active capable. So would run the tweets off of the 'high" set of rca's.

Then use the set of mid rca's to go to the 1100.4.

Now this is where I have some questions.

Say I low pass the mids at 2.5k and high pass at 80. Now with that signal can I xover at the amp and have the anarchy's at 80-300, then xover the 4" speakers at 300-2.5k? I hope that makes as much sense as it does in my head.

Now for the tweets i'm looking at the vifa's because they seem to be getting great reviews over on diyma.

But I'm a little stumped on the 4" speakers (mind you 4" is not set in stone, whatever I can make work on the dash). So any ideas on those? Budget I'm looking at under a 100 bucks hopefully for both, and the 1100.4 would be putting out 175 watts per side at 4 ohms.

How many rca outputs does your headunit have? For going active and crossing over, does it have 2 sets of rcas, or three?

Your thoughts on crossing over the mids are correct (obviously you will be fiddling with the points and slopes though), but you still need to be able to get another "processed" signal for your 4" drivers your planning on using.

Where are you planning on installing the ex-anarchies, doors, kicks? If doors, how much space do you have in terms of mounting depth and area on the door for the speaker?

Depending on the space you have, you may want to consider using a larger midbass driver, and since your planning on doing a three way +sub (which may not be easiest route for going active the first time), you don't have to worry as much about how high the midbass driver needs to play.

-------

I've read of people crossing over their ex-anarchies around 2500hz, in my situation that was too high. Currently I'm crossed around 100hz 18 db slope between subwoofer and ex-anarchies, and ~1900-2000hz 18 db slope between ex-anarchies and tweeters.

I'm not saying these numbers are going to work for you, or well in your car, but just giving an example. I have a notebook filled with over a hundred combinations of slopes and XO points, and that's for a two-way setup. +sub (no brainer)

[Shogen 325]

Jes, maybe tone down to a 2-way active setup like Stef seems to be suggesting... I do like the full range idea that vladd mentioned, but you def need to find out the crossover capabilities of the C1100.4 before making that decision as far as an amplifier goes...

I do like the Precision Power amplifiers available recently, they offer bandpass options directly on the amplifier...